The Liberal Party - How long? - Part 2

[Crankyhawk]

I can get them halfway competitive again with just three things. No need to pay for expensive reviews.

1. Drop their moronic opposition to action on climate change.

2. Boot out the religious zealots

3. Bring in quotas for women. They can crap on all they want with "oh we're a meritocracy", but the simple fact is, women are not interested in joining the Coalition in any way near a number remotely resembling the real world.

Quotas worked for the ALP. Just do it and stop being so stupid. In the rare circumstance that a truly dud female candidate somehow gets through purely on quota rather than ability, whatever damage she does will be hugely outweighed by the positives that having a realistic female representation across the board will bring.

They don't even need to tangle themselves up in hairsplitting about "minorities". We're talking about over 50% of the population FFS.

Sneaky way to be competitive

• leave the coalition
• go left (between alp and greens) with a puppet leader not intended to win (eg sussan ley or Hamer if she gets up over Ryan)

Float all the ideas as policy - higher Newstart, tax reform, minerals tax.

• then still manage to not win but do better, but enough so that they can say “community rejected those ideas”
• or if manage to win then fail to deliver

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

3. Bring in quotas for women. They can crap on all they want with "oh we're a meritocracy", but the simple fact is, women are not interested in joining the Coalition in any way near a number remotely resembling the real world.

Quotas worked for the ALP. Just do it and stop being so stupid. In the rare circumstance that a truly dud female candidate somehow gets through purely on quota rather than ability, whatever damage she does will be hugely outweighed by the positives that having a realistic female representation across the board will bring.

They don't even need to tangle themselves up in hairsplitting about "minorities". We're talking about over 50% of the population FFS.

See? When SBD Gonzalez posts on BF, people listen

Federal politics live: Arthur Sinodinos says Liberals will not win government with culture wars alone - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

 

[Ticky009]

This right here is a perfect capture of how the LNP are driven by their Culture War agenda by choosing to not release a policy that directly addresses women in its context and outcomes.

They can play that game if they want - but they'll never get back women voters if they choose to do so.

 

[The Punter]

This right here is a perfect capture of how the LNP are driven by their Culture War agenda by choosing to not release a policy that directly addresses women in its context and outcomes.

They can play that game if they want - but they'll never get back women voters if they choose to do so.

Dutton released a quite comprehensive policy on Domestic Violence. He then visited too many petrol stations.

 

[Ticky009]

Dutton released a quite comprehensive policy on Domestic Violence. He then visited too many petrol stations.

It got lost amongst all the noise and he left it way too late like he did with most of their policies.

 

[cartwright]

It got lost amongst all the noise and he left it way too late like he did with most of their policies.

Because it was an after thought
Like it always has been for the liberals

 

[DaRick]

Dutton released a quite comprehensive policy on Domestic Violence. He then visited too many petrol stations.

Yeah, what was that all about?

It was obviously an attempt to bring attention to CoL, but oil prices are very low right now, so it just looked weird.

 

[The Punter]

Yeah, what was that all about?

It was obviously an attempt to bring attention to CoL, but oil prices are very low right now, so it just looked weird.

Considering the ever shrinking petrol excise take due to uptake of EVs, he would have been better off just abolishing it forever as the first step in an overhaul of the tax system. Doing it for 12 months makes it seems like an election bribe, and makes it your fault when prices go back up in 12 months.

 

[Ticky009]

Interesting point from a LNP member.

 

[Elroo]

Wolohan (likely losing member for Menzies) currently speaking very realistically on Insiders. Of the need to listen to the urban areas, of the need to win back the center, the professionals, the women. To provide a vision of hope, and not to keep looking back to Howard/ Costello/ Menzies.

No I like their winning idea of calling metropolitan voters city elites.

 

[Gough]

It got lost amongst all the noise and he left it way too late like he did with most of their policies.

Dutton's past just proved too much for him in the end. His policy on domestic violence being a good example, when he's on record as describing an alleged rape as a he said/she said situation nobody can believe he takes it seriously and there are examples like that with the environment, indigenous affairs, and women's rights too. It became hard to believe his policy was coming from a place of good faith.

 

[DaRick]

Interesting point from a LNP member.

I remember attending an LNP function in 2014 (the departing LNP MP was a family friend).

Pretty much everyone there had grey hair.

 

[GrayRanga]

I remember attending an LNP function in 2014 (the departing LNP MP was a family friend).

Pretty much everyone there had grey hair.

don't knock it

 

[DaRick]

don't knock it

Sorry brother, just stating facts.

I know you weren't one of them, so don't take it too personally.

 

[QuietB]

Dutton released a quite comprehensive policy on Domestic Violence. He then visited too many petrol stations.

Which backflip did he release that policy with?

Dutton's biggest issue was he was never once in control of his own campaign.

 

[jim boy]

I can get them halfway competitive again with just three things. No need to pay for expensive reviews.

1. Drop their moronic opposition to action on climate change.

2. Boot out the religious zealots

3. Bring in quotas for women. They can crap on all they want with "oh we're a meritocracy", but the simple fact is, women are not interested in joining the Coalition in any way near a number remotely resembling the real world.

Quotas worked for the ALP. Just do it and stop being so stupid. In the rare circumstance that a truly dud female candidate somehow gets through purely on quota rather than ability, whatever damage she does will be hugely outweighed by the positives that having a realistic female representation across the board will bring.

They don't even need to tangle themselves up in hairsplitting about "minorities". We're talking about over 50% of the population FFS.

You're saying all of this as if the Liberal party were a footy team with a coach who can just trade in a few players, trade out a few trouble makers and institute a well thought out game plan. When in reality, if they were a football team, they wouldn't have a coach. They would just be the players on the team who make their own calls on whether they stay or go and decide amongst themselves the tactics of the game, more often than not based upon the feedback they get from those immediately around them rather than the wider society.

While this is true of the Libs, its also true of Labor and the Greens, it's really just how political parties work, they largely exist in echo chambers and act accordingly.

Right now, there are too many players in the Liberal team who want to play the game down the right wing only - where they get support from those who crowd around the right wing. Meanwhile Labor, and to a lesser extent the greens have a more balanced approach, and are just going down the more efficient centre corridor.

So back to your suggestions, dont disagree with any of them, but who of those in Libs going down that right wing is going to stand up and say, bugger my own ideology, I'm going to sacrifice myself for the greater good of the team. It's not a question of what they change, but how is this change even going to take place?

 

[Magruder]

Dutton released a quite comprehensive policy on Domestic Violence. He then visited too many petrol stations.

yep and told women that they could get back into the office and 'job share' - really focused on lifting participation rates... really understands the issues that matter to families.

most of the policy ideas that 'cut through' were those pitched to the imaginary tradie constituency or those that centred around the grievance politics and cruelty of a certain persuasion. Not ones that build an effective election winning coalition of voters.

they were stuck in the safe space vortex of sky after dark.

The immediate reactions were telling, Hume, Price et al... long may they stay there.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

You're saying all of this as if the Liberal party were a footy team with a coach who can just trade in a few players, trade out a few trouble makers and institute a well thought out game plan. When in reality, if they were a football team, they wouldn't have a coach. They would just be the players on the team who make their own calls on whether they stay or go and decide amongst themselves the tactics of the game, more often than not based upon the feedback they get from those immediately around them rather than the wider society.

While this is true of the Libs, its also true of Labor and the Greens, it's really just how political parties work, they largely exist in echo chambers and act accordingly.

Right now, there are too many players in the Liberal team who want to play the game down the right wing only - where they get support from those who crowd around the right wing. Meanwhile Labor, and to a lesser extent the greens have a more balanced approach, and are just going down the more efficient centre corridor.

So back to your suggestions, dont disagree with any of them, but who of those in Libs going down that right wing is going to stand up and say, bugger my own ideology, I'm going to sacrifice myself for the greater good of the team. It's not a question of what they change, but how is this change even going to take place?

Oh I know. I quite agree. But these are the changes they have to make if they want to get elected.

If they don't care about getting elected, they have two choices - disband the party, or just else keep going as they are, and that way they definitely won't get elected, if that's what they want.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

This right here is a perfect capture of how the LNP are driven by their Culture War agenda by choosing to not release a policy that directly addresses women in its context and outcomes.

They can play that game if they want - but they'll never get back women voters if they choose to do so.

Women buy petrol too!!

 

[Ticky009]

Women buy petrol too!!

Tripping over themselves to avoid having a different call.

LNP did announce their DV strategy but left it way too late and the damage had already been done by Dutton's comments of 'job sharing' for those who didn't want to go back to work.

 

[jim boy]

Oh I know. I quite agree. But these are the changes they have to make if they want to get elected.

Although they do want to get elected, there are a number of players on that team whose bigger want is to impose their own/factional warped ideology - winning is a means to get there and the Liberal party is the vessel to do it. But they know they if they agree to 'temper' that ideology too much in the effort to win for the greater Liberal party good then the victory will be pyrrhic. Dropping that ideology is hard, not just because of those in the party whose only reason for being in the party is that ideology, but also because there are mega-donors like Rinehart who do much to keep the Liberal coffers healthy and whom they cant afford to lose.

 

[faible]

Although they do want to get elected, there are a number of players on that team whose bigger want is to impose their own/factional warped ideology - winning is a means to get there and the Liberal party is the vessel to do it. But they know they if they agree to 'temper' that ideology too much in the effort to win for the greater Liberal party good then the victory will be pyrrhic. Dropping that ideology is hard, not just because of those in the party whose only reason for being in the party is that ideology, but also because there are mega-donors like Rinehart who do much to keep the Liberal coffers healthy and whom they cant afford to lose.

Seems 'representing their constituency' is very low down on their list of priorities.

 

[Magruder]

Women buy petrol too!!

unless they're poor, because Joe Hockey doesn't reckon they drive cars

 

[Deliverance]

This right here is a perfect capture of how the LNP are driven by their Culture War agenda by choosing to not release a policy that directly addresses women in its context and outcomes.

They can play that game if they want - but they'll never get back women voters if they choose to do so.

Gonna be good when the LNP introduces woke gender quotas

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Although they do want to get elected, there are a number of players on that team whose bigger want is to impose their own/factional warped ideology - winning is a means to get there and the Liberal party is the vessel to do it. But they know they if they agree to 'temper' that ideology too much in the effort to win for the greater Liberal party good then the victory will be pyrrhic. Dropping that ideology is hard, not just because of those in the party whose only reason for being in the party is that ideology, but also because there are mega-donors like Rinehart who do much to keep the Liberal coffers healthy and whom they cant afford to lose.

Yep. Some of them need to ask do they want to improve the nation by changing it, or do they want to improve the nation by serving it? Coz right now no-one's buying the way they want to change the nation, and that's probably how it will stay for quite some while.

Re the donors, I am soooooooo pissed off about the stitch-up deal that Labor and the Coalition did shortly before parliament rose. We need to wean our politicians off the donor teat, and they've done the opposite for themselves, to try to hamstring the independents. Absolute craven bastards.