The List

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

He got absolutely towelled up by Brad Johnson. He maybe a decent player for us, but to say he'd get a run at most other clubs is incorrect.

This may have escaped your attention but Brad Johnson towels up every poor bugger who plays on him.

 

[Belnakor]

This may have escaped your attention but Brad Johnson towels up every poor bugger who plays on him.

He does in general. But normally they don't have a coach who keeps the same guy on him the entire game even when hes getting flogged.

 

[Underdog]

Our rookies do not look good, thats just a fact. When a guy is barely getting a game in the reserves you know he is shit. We need a good 10 new players on our list next season, we're heading to rebuilding land if not next year, then the year after. Any team who has guys like Walker still on their list, and probably will next year as "depth" should know they are in trouble.

from what I hear its not an overly deep draft so you may retain some players much to your dismay. Or perhaps there will be some mature players in the draft - but then you may enter issues of Carlton proportions.

 

[Scham]

Using the OP's player descriptions I have grouped by importance/rank. Players are not ranked within the groups but the (number) on the right shows how little depth we have got. Not too much past 22. Next year we need a good few draftees or young players to really step up.

Star/Absolute keeper
Bell – great again but will he play next year??? (1)
Farmer – one more year (2)
Hayden – one of our best and maybe AA (3)
Pavlich – our best and all AA (4)

Solid Performer
Black – in our best 22. (5)
J.Carr – slow as midfielders go but in our best 22. (6)
Crowley – ok as depth player (7)
Dodd – in our best 22 (8)
Grover – honest and in our best 22 (9)
Hasleby – great when not injured (10)
Headland –not a fan as he is too inconsistent.Gets lost to easily but keep.(11)
Johnson – in our best 22. (12)
McPharlin – in our best 22 but needs more consistency (13)
Sandilands – awesome physically but should have done better. (14)
Solomon – one more season. (15)
Tarrant – keep as in our best 22 and need to get something in return. (16)


Developing and looking AFL standard or near
Campbell – needs opportunities. (17)
Drum – keep, develop and give him opportunities. (18)
Mundy – in our best 22 (19)
Murphy – ruined by CC. Needs coach to give him a go. (20)
Peake–one with real pace.Keep and give him opportunities & responsibility (21)
Schammer – in our best 22 when fit. (22)
Warnock – one of our best. Great potential. (23)

Developing and juries out or don't know
Collard – potential but needs opportunities (24)
Dunn – de-list as he is not going to make it a AFL (25)
Foster ® – give him a go in 2007 (26)
Ibbotson – potential but needs opportunities (27)
Mourish – keep, develop and give him opportunities. (28)
C.Smith ® – not up to AFL standard (29)

Depth Player
M Carr – too slow & past it. (30)
Gilmore – not sure about him. Maybe Ok as backup (31)
Walker – had his day. (32)
Webster – limited opportunities. Just not sure if we should keep. (33)

Unsure, leaning towards not a long term prospect
Browne – injury prone. Is he going to string some games together?? (34)
Duffield – I don’t know if he has it. (35)
Haddrill – will he get back???? (36)
O’Brien – keep and develop. (37)
Thornton – just not sure on him, maybe keep as depth player (38)

Gone
Cook – cult figure but past his best (39)
Copping ® – de-list, not to AFL standard (40)
Longmuir – injury and gone (41)
McManus – cult figure but had his day (42)
Parker – been great for the lub but had his day (43)
Rumble ® – not up to AFL standard. (44)

O'Brien should be in the "Developing and looking AFL standard" category.

 

[dominguez]

Freo chose well in last years Draft is just that they have a policy on playing youth(CC). Many from this years selection will be a certain starter next season providing no injuries or form slump. I personally think Freo new about some of this up and coming talent for this years Draft hence the position they are in. Freo certainally didnt stuff up last year in the Draft and Trade period.

Our 3 selections in the national draft have shown very little (O'Brien, Mourish, Collard), and illustrate what a poor decision it was to part with a top ten pick.

I got the impression that Collard was a shy lad who lacks confidence, but he is obviously intelligent.
Clayton currently attends The University of Western Australia where he is studying Medicine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Collard

 

[jarman]

I'd be interested to see you assess some other clubs list to know whether you're as ruthless and uncompromising on all clubs or just your own.

There is a pretty cynical view being expressed here.

For example, Scotty Thornton would be a walk-up start for most teams. Reads the game well. good overhead, keeps his feet, and fantastic closing speed, and solid disposal by foot and hand. Has towelled up some very good players in the past.

Solomon has been a revelation this season and is only 26. He has another 5 years at least.

DRG - Agree, i am basically ruthless in the disappointment where we have ended up yet again. I could see where ****** CC was going with his short sightedness, poor coaching ability and giving away our top draft picks. That guy has a lot to answer for.

We are in 13th position on the ladder and way off the mark from where we need to be. I just cannot see where the improvement and spark is going to come from with the current squad for 2008. IMO we will be propping up the ladder in bottom half again next year. We need to draft quality youngsters and it is going to take time for them to come on.

How do you think we will do in 2008 with this squad and maybe a couple of good youngsters. Are we ready for top 8? Our midfield is carp.

Do not agree with you on Thorton - he is very average and Soloman is OK but not a game winner. Neither a chance of being AA.

Would love some of the youngsters some of the other squads have and would rate them better as some of them are in the top 4, top 8 and are on thier way up.

 

[inferno66]

Our 3 selections in the national draft have shown very little (O'Brien, Mourish, Collard), and illustrate what a poor decision it was to part with a top ten pick.

Mourish was always a project player and was picked very late. O'Brien has had a injury interrupted season so far. Collar has actually been quite impressive at WAFL level.

 

[theGav56]

Our 3 selections in the national draft have shown very little (O'Brien, Mourish, Collard), and illustrate what a poor decision it was to part with a top ten pick.

I could quite easily have seen Collard and O'Brien being selected with our 2nd and 3rd picks anyway. Unrealistic to have expected first year players to have done more. Give them a bit of time.

 

[Plugga]

KEEP WITHOUT A DOUBT IF POSSIBLE
Heath Black
Adam Campbell
Josh Carr
Clayton Collard
Steven Dodd
Marcus Drum
Jeff Farmer
Antoni Grover
Roger Hayden
Des Headland
Garrick Ibbotson
Michael Johnson
Luke McPharlin
Ryan Murphy
Brock O'Brien
Matthew Pavlich
Brett Peake
Aaron Sandilands
Byron Schammer
Dean Solomon
Chris Tarrant
Scott Thornton
Rob Warnock

TO BE DELISTED/RETIRED
Peter Bell - will retire
Troy Cook - will retire
Rob Haddrill - will retire/delisted
Shane Parker - will retire

MASSIVE ??? MARKS/POSSIBLE DELISTING OR TRADEBAIT
Andrew Browne - Has 5 weeks to see if he doesn't get injured again, maybe worth a 1 year deal...maybe
Matt Carr - Has rest of season to see how he goes. Is borderline for delisting.
Ryan Crowley - Has gone backwards this year, possible trade?..otherwise keep.
Paul Duffield - Probably keep, but hasn't developed this year. Has 5 games probably to prove his worth.
Ryley Dunn - If he remains injury free in next 2 weeks will probably crack a game by end of season. HUGe question marks on his body.
Daniel Gilmore - Improving in last 3 weeks, so likely to be given chance. Poss trade bait though if anyone interested.
Paul Hasleby - Inconsistent, doesn't carry injuries well, if he doesn't sign on for a reduced contract & payment, a likely trade option.
Justin Longmuir - We'll have to wait & see how his surgery went
Shaun McManus - Probably has next 5 games to prove his worth. likely to be given 1 year deal....maybe
Calib Mourish - Project player. Another pre-season will do him a world of good. From what I've seen, he is slow...MAYBE worth a rookie contract or another 1 year deal...maybe
david Mundy - Very soft contact player. Massive trade bait if clubs interested. Backmen are easier to be manufactured...perhaps worth trading for a high pick? Otherwise keep & hop ehe hardens up.
James Walker - Unless depth is requiured...delist. A great WAFL player at best.
Luke Webster - Probabluy deserves more chance, likely to get his chances in next few weeks. Has rest of season to prove worth.

ROOKIES
Benet Copping - Will be delisted
Andrew Foster - Will be upgraded to senior list
Darren Rumble - Likely to be delisted, has gone backwards this year at Subi
chris Smith - Another year on rookie list is likely

 

[FREO81]

Our 3 selections in the national draft have shown very little (O'Brien, Mourish, Collard), and illustrate what a poor decision it was to part with a top ten pick.

I got the impression that Collard was a shy lad who lacks confidence, but he is obviously intelligent.
Clayton currently attends The University of Western Australia where he is studying Medicine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Collard

Could they(or you) have done any better than they did with the picks they had besides the picks 8 and 13 that we gave Collingwood and Richmond. Have they done any good with those players they choose with the picks. NO. So for what they have and what they got was pretty good. And what we traded to get was a plus. So we didnt really loose IMO. Those young kids were direct replacement for who may retire get delisted or leave. Just give those kids a chance at AFL if all goes well.

 

[theGav56]

Could they(or you) have done any better than they did with the picks they had besides the picks 8 and 13 that we gave Collingwood and Richmond.

Just to clarify; We gave pick 13 and Polak (who would have gone in the PSD otherwise) for pick 8. We did not give up pick 8 and 13.

 

[dominguez]

Collard has actually been quite impressive at WAFL level.

For a month prior to his debut. Before that, and after his one and only game for Fremantle he has been average to poor, and was dropped to the bulldogs reserves about a month ago.

 

[dominguez]

I could quite easily have seen Collard and O'Brien being selected with our 2nd and 3rd picks anyway. Unrealistic to have expected first year players to have done more. Give them a bit of time.

I certainly haven't written them off. But many supporters suggested that the Tarrant trade was a great deal since we picked up 3 guns without having a first round selection. To this point I have seen little to suggest that they will be standout AFL players.

 

[dominguez]

I could see where ****** CC was going with his short sightedness, poor coaching ability and giving away our top draft picks. That guy has a lot to answer for.

Are we ready for top 8? Our midfield is carp.

Do not agree with you on Thorton - he is very average and Soloman is OK but not a game winner. Neither a chance of being AA.

The senior coach isn't solely responsible for trades, others have to sign off on any deal. Schwab has really pushed the club to be aggressive during trade week.

Crowley has struggled to over come the knee injury he sustained in Ireland, and we have barely seen Schammer and Peake this year. That's three handy inclusions to our midfield next year. Probably not enough improvement to dominate in 2008, but I'm confident that if the club can trade and draft well that we can be a force next season.

Surely All Australian selection isn't your gauge for a players ability? Only 22 players can be selected each year, and there are many players in the competition that I would like to have in our side who have never been in the AA team.

 

[dominguez]

Could they (or you) have done any better than they did with the picks they had besides the picks 8 and 13 that we gave Collingwood and Richmond. Have they done any good with those players they choose with the picks. NO. So for what they have and what they got was pretty good. And what we traded to get was a plus. So we didnt really loose IMO. Those young kids were direct replacement for who may retire get delisted or leave. Just give those kids a chance at AFL if all goes well.

I don't have a problem with the selection of O'Brien, Mourish or Collard, although with the benefit of hindsight it would have probably been a good idea to draft a genuine midfielder with one of our picks. I just didn't see the point at the time in giving up pick 8 and Medhurst, and I still don't see the point now of letting them go for a guy we didn't really need and who hasn't helped us win games of footy.

There are plenty of lads taken outside the top 7 of last years draft who have shown more than Collard.

Tarrant's just another player on our list who has poor skills and goes missing when we need our senior players (especially those on the big salaries) to stand up.

Ofcourse our draftees were seen as replacements for retirees/delistings, that's why each club has atleast 3 selections each year. Looking back we should have had 4 or 5 selections.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Why don't we just trade the whole club. The point is building on top of the squad, not depleting it so we can rebuild again. A player has a bad year and all of the sudden he;s off to the glue factory. Hell imagine the amount of great players who have had one struggling year.. did they get shipped off?

 

[theGav56]

There are plenty of lads taken outside the top 7 of last years draft who have shown more than Collard.

Tarrant's just another player on our list who has poor skills and goes missing when we need our senior players (especially those on the big salaries) to stand up.

Showing more than Collard? Well there would be plenty that haven't too. If you are cherry picking players with hindsight that's a little unfair. I am very confident that Collard will be a decent player for us, and while he was not selected as a midfielder looks like the perfect replacement for Farmer, and we certainly need one of them. In addition, O'Brien's selection should fill another gap, which is a good small defender, an area we are weak in.

The problem with drafting is that it is always a gamble. Take a look at Walker and Dunn; both high draft picks, neither stars. Trading for established players is quite legitimate.

I think Tarrant is likely to finish in our top 10, which is pretty good for a player coming off a pre-season operation and limited pre-season, something you acknowledge as being an issue for Crowley, but don't give any latitude to him for. Given that his operation was something that will effect his kicking, he is doing well, in a new team which he had no opportunity to get used to a forward line structure before he actually played in it. Has a handy goal tally given Farmer's disasterous season, and adds significant forward line pressure. And given Murphy's lack of AFL form, the pressure he takes off Pavlich is critical, not to mention what we will need if Pavlich goes. Opposition teams will work out a strategy for Tarrant, but won't have a second thought about Murphy.

 

[dominguez]

The problem with drafting is that it is always a gamble. Take a look at Walker and Dunn; both high draft picks, neither stars. Trading for established players is quite legitimate.

I think Tarrant is likely to finish in our top 10, which is pretty good for a player coming off a pre-season operation and limited pre-season, something you acknowledge as being an issue for Crowley, but don't give any latitude to him for. Given that his operation was something that will effect his kicking, he is doing well, in a new team which he had no opportunity to get used to a forward line structure before he actually played in it. Has a handy goal tally given Farmer's disasterous season, and adds significant forward line pressure. And given Murphy's lack of AFL form, the pressure he takes off Pavlich is critical, not to mention what we will need if Pavlich goes. Opposition teams will work out a strategy for Tarrant, but won't have a second thought about Murphy.

Five of the last seven years we have traded our first pick for the missing link, and we are sitting in the bottom four. The hawthorn approach where you load up on early picks while you're in the bottom half of the ladder is a much better model IMO.

I don't really have a problem with Tarrant's form. If he was one of ours I'd be quite happy with how he has played. But when you give up 2 players, a first round pick and $400,000 a year for a guy with a history of injury, bad kicking and going missing in big games I struggle to see the logic. Hopefully a full summer on the track will improve his kicking, but I can't see what we can do that the magpies wouldn't have already tried. Add the fact that we have Murphy, Drum and Campbell as young key forwards and that Thornton and Mundy have loooked okay when swung forward, the recruitment of Tarrant has only given us salary cap pressure and a conundrum regarding the future of Murphy/Campbell/Drum IMO.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

Our 3 selections in the national draft have shown very little (O'Brien, Mourish, Collard), and illustrate what a poor decision it was to part with a top ten pick.

This is such a dumb statement on so many levels its difficult to know where to start to refute it. The first is that you should know at the time what you know with hindsight.

Collard was a highly rated draft pick who many supporters were eager to pick even at the cost of a top 10 pick. He then had an interrupted pre-season -- even by draftee standards. He started the season in sparkling form and like most youngsters his form has trailed off as the season takes its toll.

O'brien was in the top 10 of the 20m sprint at draft camp, and we need speed. he is also an angry ant who never takes a backward step. He has played midfield at under 18's. He was also considered an excellent pickup having been rated by a few phantom drafts in the top 30. If I remember correctly he too has had injuries. He has apparently started putting together some good WAFL games.

Mourish was always a smokey and would have been picked up regardless of trading. He's a raw kid from the bush spending his first year in the city. He was dead-set fat when he arrived. He might take two or three years but there's no doubting his talent. He might turn out like Sampi or he might be the modern Polly Farmer. It's too early to tell.

In short, it's way too early to tell the impact of last year's drafting and trading. And, even when you make that assessment you have to take into account was it a good series of decisions at the time. I think based on what was known at the time, the 2006 drafting/trading was a huge win for the club.

I got the impression that Collard was a shy lad who lacks confidence, but he is obviously intelligent.
Clayton currently attends The University of Western Australia where he is studying Medicine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Collard

You can be shy, quiet and intelligent. Ask any nerd.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

DRG - Agree, i am basically ruthless in the disappointment where we have ended up yet again. I could see where ****** CC was going with his short sightedness, poor coaching ability and giving away our top draft picks. That guy has a lot to answer for.

We are in 13th position on the ladder and way off the mark from where we need to be. I just cannot see where the improvement and spark is going to come from with the current squad for 2008. IMO we will be propping up the ladder in bottom half again next year. We need to draft quality youngsters and it is going to take time for them to come on.

How do you think we will do in 2008 with this squad and maybe a couple of good youngsters. Are we ready for top 8? Our midfield is carp.

Absolutely for Top 8. I thought the problem was the coach, not the players. You can't have it both ways.

If our midfield is carp you're talking about 10 players at most. I think 2 out of the 8 will make the difference, and then I think different coaching will make a bigger difference.

Drafting quality youngsters for experienced players will ensure we are in the bottom half of the ladder next year. I don't follow the logic.

Would love some of the youngsters some of the other squads have and would rate them better as some of them are in the top 4, top 8 and are on thier way up.

True ... but if the Queen had balls ...

I also reckon if Hawthorn takes a dive next year like Geelong, Sainters. Melbourne and we have all done after good years, you'll be changing your tunes.

 

[dominguez]

This is such a dumb statement on so many levels its difficult to know where to start to refute it. The first is that you should know at the time what you know with hindsight.

In short, it's way too early to tell the impact of last year's drafting and trading. And, even when you make that assessment you have to take into account was it a good series of decisions at the time. I think based on what was known at the time, the 2006 drafting/trading was a huge win for the club.


You can be shy, quiet and intelligent. Ask any nerd.

I never said that Collard, O'Brien and Mourish were duds, my comment that you have quoted was in response to another poster who wrote "Many from this years selection will be a certain starter next season providing no injuries or form slump." All I said was that they have shown little this year, and apart from a very good month from Collard the 3 of them have struggled to have an impact at WAFL level this year. That doesn't mean that they won't be ready next year, but at this stage it looks unlikely.

 

[FREO81]

Personally i would like to see Mourish playing has a half foward-midfielder(like headland) this year it would give the kid some confidents. He has the potential to come in prvoviding our season is over so we can give jim a taste of AFL. I liked his Pre season game against the Hawks. I would also give a Foster and Ibbotson a crack and throw in a Collard and maybe a Smith if we can.
One it throws oppositions coaches off with match ups and opposition players get to cocky. Then we as fans can see what they truley got.

 

[Dr Ralph Dagg]

I never said that Collard, O'Brien and Mourish were duds, my comment that you have quoted was in response to another poster who wrote "Many from this years selection will be a certain starter next season providing no injuries or form slump." All I said was that they have shown little this year, and apart from a very good month from Collard the 3 of them have struggled to have an impact at WAFL level this year. That doesn't mean that they won't be ready next year, but at this stage it looks unlikely.

Ok, I get it now. Sorry to have thought it was a dumb statement.

You'll notice I was very careful to say the statement was dumb, and not you, Dom.

 

[dominguez]

Ok, I get it now. Sorry to have thought it was a dumb statement.

You'll notice I was very careful to say the statement was dumb, and not you, Dom.

That's okay, like most Freo supporters I have thick skin.

 

[dominguez]

Personally i would like to see Mourish playing has a half foward-midfielder(like headland) this year it would give the kid some confidents. He has the potential to come in prvoviding our season is over so we can give jim a taste of AFL. I liked his Pre season game against the Hawks. I would also give a Foster and Ibbotson a crack and throw in a Collard and maybe a Smith if we can.
One it throws oppositions coaches off with match ups and opposition players get to cocky. Then we as fans can see what they truley got.

Mourish isn't getting a game for East Fremantle's senior side. I think that will be his role down the track if he can get his fitness to the required level though.