Roast The Loose Zone

[catempire]

It's time to go back to basics with this.

The premise of a zone is to allow you to defend more space than you could if you went man on man. But it only works if you pressure the ball carrier and the gaps between your players in the zone are made small. You do this by players being energised to "rush" the ball carrier. Geelong's players - for whatever reason - have been instructed to back off the mark (this gives the kicker endless time and space to find a target) and players in the zone seem to stand motionless on the spot and point at their teammates in hope someone else will attack the ball carrier.

We need to get back to hunting the ball and ball carrier. Man the mark and make it hard for the kicker. Everyone in the zone must be energised. One man rushes the ball carrier and another should be filling the space behind him ready to do the same if the possession gets through. Too often it has just taken one clean possession and the opposition is through.

 

[afl genius]

Bartel the other day said the idea/reasoning behind the zone was due to Sydney winning the prelim in the first 20 minutes. So to stop teams getting a huge run on and to stop the momentum the brains trust has developed this zone. Basically it means that you only guard the last 65 meters of your defence by pushing all the numbers deep in defence meaning that team will have the ball but will not be able to score. Once the cats have the ball and turn it over it falls to chite because everyone's open and the numbers that are needed back in deep defence are scattered all around the ground and are running back, this is why you see teams just waltz it up the middle because everyone's running back and not concerned with the ball carrier. That's what Jim on some podcast said it was all about. Regardless of reasons it doesn't work and considering we are slow, a man on man defence would be a good move. Would be mind blown if they tried it again this week

 

[Baudolino]

All along your argument about our poor performances has been based on the loss of so many A grade players but now that you've had a few spare minutes to actually look at the bigger picture you can see that our game plan is so predictable opposition teams dismantle it with ease, do you not see that it's ultimately a coach problem and when you have a nuffy like Scott running the gig what else would you expect.

It's possible for good coaches to make mistakes - up to and including egregious mistakes - or have years where they coach better or worse. The fact that this year our zone has been ineffective - and our coaches, in particular our head coach, should rightly take the blame for that - doesn't make Scott a "nuffy" or retroactively vindicate all previous criticisms of what he has done as a coach down the years.

 

[Chappycats]

It's time to go back to basics with this.

The premise of a zone is to allow you to defend more space than you could if you went man on man. But it only works if you pressure the ball carrier and the gaps between your players in the zone are made small. You do this by players being energised to "rush" the ball carrier. Geelong's players - for whatever reason - have been instructed to back off the mark (this gives the kicker endless time and space to find a target) and players in the zone seem to stand motionless on the spot and point at their teammates in hope someone else will attack the ball carrier.

We need to get back to hunting the ball and ball carrier. Man the mark and make it hard for the kicker. Everyone in the zone must be energised. One man rushes the ball carrier and another should be filling the space behind him ready to do the same if the possession gets through. Too often it has just taken one clean possession and the opposition is through.

Couldn't have put it any better CE.
Now can you email the coach because I think he needs some help on the basics!

 

[Chappycats]

Bartel the other day said the idea/reasoning behind the zone was due to Sydney winning the prelim in the first 20 minutes. So to stop teams getting a huge run on and to stop the momentum the brains trust has developed this zone. Basically it means that you only guard the last 65 meters of your defence by pushing all the numbers deep in defence meaning that team will have the ball but will not be able to score. Once the cats have the ball and turn it over it falls to chite because everyone's open and the numbers that are needed back in deep defence are scattered all around the ground and are running back, this is why you see teams just waltz it up the middle because everyone's running back and not concerned with the ball carrier. That's what Jim on some podcast said it was all about. Regardless of reasons it doesn't work and considering we are slow, a man on man defence would be a good move. Would be mind blown if they tried it again this week

I can understand this but I would have thought that pressuring the ball carrier would slow the transition down thus allowing all our players to push back into defense!
At the moment we are running away from the ball carrier which allows them to move to ball more quickly and precisely then we can get back to defend!
Why it's taken the head coach 3 weeks to address this is mind boggling.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

All along your argument about our poor performances has been based on the loss of so many A grade players but now that you've had a few spare minutes to actually look at the bigger picture you can see that our game plan is so predictable opposition teams dismantle it with ease, do you not see that it's ultimately a coach problem and when you have a nuffy like Scott running the gig what else would you expect.

Of cause losing that many AA players has destroyed us. It's been nothing short of phenominal that we have done so well making finals while losing that many AA players.
How we have done so well while losing 13AA players in the space of six years is truly remarkable and reflects a champion coach.
But let's not get sidetracked or be simpletons who think "poor performance=bad coach and players making no effort" which is quite moronic.

Every game plan has its weaknesses flaws and issues, I could go over the Bulldogs and GWS and find you flaws in all of their game plans, it isn't an exclusive Geelong thing to have a chink in the armour.

Overall I think we do a lot of things defensively very well, we are very strong defensively when we force opposition Down the line, I think it's more a matter of corrections to force teams into doibg this again as opposed to allowing them easy switches.

This is only one small thing I thought I would share, I could go on with others but I can't be bothered now.

Would love to see you show some footy knowledge beyond the all conquering "we loose=Scott knows nothing and players don't put effort in". By all means please show some analysis of your own instead of the usual effort lines

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Bartel the other day said the idea/reasoning behind the zone was due to Sydney winning the prelim in the first 20 minutes. So to stop teams getting a huge run on and to stop the momentum the brains trust has developed this zone. Basically it means that you only guard the last 65 meters of your defence by pushing all the numbers deep in defence meaning that team will have the ball but will not be able to score. Once the cats have the ball and turn it over it falls to chite because everyone's open and the numbers that are needed back in deep defence are scattered all around the ground and are running back, this is why you see teams just waltz it up the middle because everyone's running back and not concerned with the ball carrier. That's what Jim on some podcast said it was all about. Regardless of reasons it doesn't work and considering we are slow, a man on man defence would be a good move. Would be mind blown if they tried it again this week

With all due respect to Bartel he is no longer a Geelong player and is a media person. He isn't the messiah of facts about what Geelong does. He is probably also bitter about the tough call Scott made to move him on when he didn't want to leave.

As Scott said about ling the same applies to barrel, he is a media person, not a Geelong official anymore. As simple as that, so don't take what Bartel says as the bible of facts as to what's going on at Geelong currently.

 

[BennyLitter]

This is an interesting discussion.. & I totally agree that we are getting hurt on the switch and teams have seemingly just being able to run the ball through the middle with next to no pressure..

So what's the main thing that has changed defensively in the last 3 weeks?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[Ray Donovan]

This is an interesting discussion.. & I totally agree that we are getting hurt on the switch and teams have seemingly just being able to run the ball through the middle with next to no pressure..

So what's the main thing that has changed defensively in the last 3 weeks?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

In 2016 Geelong played a heavy defensive forward press. And for half a year 9 rounds we were top 2 in time in forward half and scores from turnovers in fwd half and we averaged 66 points against. The press when working correctly can really protect a back 6 with not a lot of legspeed. Think Taylor, Lonergan, Enright, Bartel, Kolo, Henderson, Mackie

After mid season sides broke down our press we went from 3rd to 15th in scores from stoppages. The prelim final showed our defence could lose us a game in a qtr simply because we set up a heavy forward midfield press and if your losing out of the centre good forwards are isolated with space.

So the "2017" zone was born and honestly I think we caught some sides of guard early with it.

So when you talk about zoning and pushing numbers back deeper to defend.

For example if every player can defend an 8 metre radius. And your key defenders are all goal side matched up on opponents. So it's like a safety net if an opposition player gets out of the 8m radius a player needs to come off and switch into the dangerous space. And the next man covers for him and so fourth. It's all about cohesion reading the play and reacting to each other.

Opposition coaches are pretty intelligent and have worked out that Geelong are applying about the least amount of forward line pressure in the comp and the midfield and forwards are pushing up the ground and deeper in defence.

Which means you can possess the ball in the midfield without taking a lot of risks and from half back especially. So it's a matter of being patient hitting targets and shifting the defence looking for the weakness or on turnovers with our lack of legspeed we can get caught out. why you see so much switching in today's game if there is no pressure your zone or safety net becomes circle work.

Especially with a slower unit down back which Geelong has.


To add to the coaching woes most sides will set up defensively against us at stoppages conceding danger or selwood will probably get first touch so they pressure the next possesion and look to force turnovers in that area. It's how we tend to dominate contested possesion, clearances these stats and lose the disposal count and look like we are getting cut up outside the contest and loose men everywhere. It's like all gameplans teams trying to get the game on their terms. That's why we look like millionaires when we are winning clean posessions Geelong gamble in the midfield. And when things bounce your way it's impressive but if it bounces the wrong way you get punished!

That's one reason I think our consistency is all over the place within games.

 

[BennyLitter]

In 2016 Geelong played a heavy defensive forward press. And for half a year 9 rounds we were top 2 in time in forward half and scores from turnovers in fwd half and we averaged 66 points against. The press when working correctly can really protect a back 6 with not a lot of legspeed. Think Taylor, Lonergan, Enright, Bartel, Kolo, Henderson, Mackie

After mid season sides broke down our press we went from 3rd to 15th in scores from stoppages. The prelim final showed our defence could lose us a game in a qtr simply because we set up a heavy forward midfield press and if your losing out of the centre good forwards are isolated with space.

So the "2017" zone was born and honestly I think we caught some sides of guard early with it.

So when you talk about zoning and pushing numbers back deeper to defend.

For example if every player can defend an 8 metre radius. And your key defenders are all goal side matched up on opponents. So it's like a safety net if an opposition player gets out of the 8m radius a player needs to come off and switch into the dangerous space. And the next man covers for him and so fourth. It's all about cohesion reading the play and reacting to each other.

Opposition coaches are pretty intelligent and have worked out that Geelong are applying about the least amount of forward line pressure in the comp and the midfield and forwards are pushing up the ground and deeper in defence.

Which means you can possess the ball in the midfield without taking a lot of risks and from half back especially. So it's a matter of being patient hitting targets and shifting the defence looking for the weakness or on turnovers with our lack of legspeed we can get caught out. why you see so much switching in today's game if there is no pressure your zone or safety net becomes circle work.

Especially with a slower unit down back which Geelong has.
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To add to the coaching woes most sides will set up defensively against us at stoppages conceding danger or selwood will probably get first touch so they pressure the next possesion and look to force turnovers in that area. It's how we tend to dominate contested possesion, clearances these stats and lose the disposal count and look like we are getting cut up outside the contest and loose men everywhere. It's like all gameplans teams trying to get the game on their terms. That's why we look like millionaires when we are winning clean posessions Geelong gamble in the midfield. And when things bounce your way it's impressive but if it bounces the wrong way you get punished!

That's one reason I think our consistency is all over the place within games.

Great analysis!

While our zones seem deeper this year, I feel that it is totally exasabated by the fact of how poorly we are playing with the fundamentals of putting ourselves under pressure with poor kicking, tackling and turnovers.

The defensive effort to run to set up correctly is seemingly just not there for enough of the time. So for mine, whether the zone is higher or lower this year vs last, we have proven that we have the cattle to implement it effectively and hurt the opposition with it.. But for the obvious player form issues, it is currently not been implemented correctly and as a flow on effect is we look severely second rate.

I really don't get how consistently we've got opened up through the middle with turn overs in our forward line. Thats my biggest concern with our defence!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[kickazz]

What a relief to not see much of it tonight.
Crept back in during the third, i think they were tired and saving themselves.

 

[catempire]

The Tight Zone

*toast*

 

[Landgraft]

The Tight Zone

*toast*

Let's not go nuts.

 

[catempire]

Let's not go nuts.

?

 

[Landgraft]

?

Don't count your zone chickens before they've proven their ability to tightly hatch on the G.

 

[catempire]

Don't count your zone chickens before they've proven their ability to tightly hatch on the G.

Fair enough. I don't expect people to be won over entirely but I actually think Scott had it pegged in the press conference when he spoke about how we set up and apply pressure. Fixing it is a necessary, if not necessarily sufficient, condition for success for us at any venue.

 

[Mr Meow]

A penny for people's thoughts:

Is it R.I.P for the loose zone in 2017? Or will it reveal its ugly head once we venture outside of the Cattery? One thing's for sure, outside of some junk time at the end, Adelaide struggled to move the ball with any fluency whatsoever last night.

 

[Ray Donovan]

A penny for people's thoughts:

Is it R.I.P for the loose zone in 2017? Or will it reveal its ugly head once we venture outside of the Cattery? One thing's for sure, outside of some junk time at the end, Adelaide struggled to move the ball with any fluency whatsoever last night.

Yet to be confirmed from the last 3 games we have dominated the midfield and applied incredible pressure on a skinny ground. Which almost in turn like setting up a forward press it will be interesting to see how we co away from the cattery.

I will so bar a few weeks chris scott has done a very good job with what he has at his disposal. Lot's of work to go though the ladder is so tight you really cant have a few bad weeks

 

[iameviljez]

A penny for people's thoughts:

Is it R.I.P for the loose zone in 2017? Or will it reveal its ugly head once we venture outside of the Cattery? One thing's for sure, outside of some junk time at the end, Adelaide struggled to move the ball with any fluency whatsoever last night.

It's interesting when you transition from the skinny ground to one with deeper pockets like the G. There's certainly a lot more space to cover and so naturally it does give more space, such as when Collingwood killed us by a thousand cuts.

 

[catempire]

It's back. We save it for Collingwood.

 

[Deep]

No Grundy Pendlebury Varcoe Greenwood Fasolo Goldsack Wells DeGoey

No win

 

[kickazz]

If Collingwood start kicking it about 8m too far behind teammates we will be so in this.

 

[catempire]

Always important to get a reminder that the loose zone doesn’t work on the G when your opponent applies high pressure and you apply none.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Always important to get a reminder that the loose zone doesn’t work on the G when your opponent applies high pressure and you apply none.

Our zone had nothing to do with it.
Effort, ability to use the ball under pressure and ability to help out team-mates in close is what cost us the game.
The constant sooking about "the zone" or "guarding grass" is almost as baseless and ignorant as "no plan B", if anyone thinks the zone doesn't work, please explain in detail exactly what our zone does, is designed to do, and why it itself fails.

 

[catempire]

Our zone had nothing to do with it.
Effort, ability to use the ball under pressure and ability to help out team-mates in close is what cost us the game.
The constant sooking about "the zone" or "guarding grass" is almost as baseless and ignorant as "no plan B", if anyone thinks the zone doesn't work, please explain in detail exactly what our zone does, is designed to do, and why it itself fails.

You seem to have missed a key part of my post relating to pressure.

As to the bolded, the zone is designed to allow you to defend more territory than you can man-on-man and to create turnover opportunities when combined with pressure on the ball carrier.

When you refuse to apply sufficient pressure and your opponent out-does you in that area the zone is completely useless, particularly on the MCG.