Biology The Lost Tribes of Humanity

[Roylion]

A fascinating documentary on the different species of humanity and their contribution of the modern DNA of modern homo sapiens was broadcast on the ABC tonight.

There now looks to be four other human species that co-existed with modern humanity.

Neanderthal, branched from modern homo sapiens about 500,000 - 700,000 years ago. Approximately 4% of the DNA of non-African modern humans is shared with Neanderthals, suggesting interbreeding after modern homo sapiens left Africa. About half of the Neanderthal genome is still in existence today.

Denisovans - fossils discovered about eight years ago. DNA analysis indicated that modern homo sapiens, the Denisovans last shared a common ancestor around 1 million years ago and split from the Neanderthals 400,000 years ago. Papuan New Guinean and Australian Aboriginal tribes have about 5% Denisovan ancestry heritage. It could be be that up to 60-80% of the Denisovan genome may still be existence in today's population, particularly in Asian populations.

Florians - last common ancestor with modern homo sapiens could have been homo ergaster, over 1.9 million years ago.

Archaic Africans - only thing known about them is the DNA which split from modern humans about 800,000 years ago in Africa. Interbreeding may have occurred with African homo sapiens occurred 20,000 to 50,000 years ago. Their DNA is found in modern Africans, but is different enough to be a distinct human species.

 

[Total Power]

Well i would add there's also been part human part neanderthals too. Full details are not available yet but its found in China. Would be interesting to know how they mated with homo sapiens.

http://time.com/4690289/china-skulls-human-neanderthal/

 

[Eaglespur]

Well i would add there's also been part human part neanderthals too. Full details are not available yet but its found in China. Would be interesting to know how they mated with homo sapiens.

http://time.com/4690289/china-skulls-human-neanderthal/

They both don't have similar reproductive systems?

 

[Total Power]

They both don't have similar reproductive systems?

As far as i understand, they can interbreed, as Homo Neanderthalis and Homo Sapiens, belong to the same genetic group. It is possible to interbreed for different species if you are under the same genetic group, like lions and tigers for example. So everyone under the "Homo" group can interbreed

 

[Eaglespur]

As far as i understand, they can interbreed, as Homo Neanderthalis and Homo Sapiens, belong to the same genetic group. It is possible to interbreed for different species if you are under the same genetic group, like lions and tigers for example. So everyone under the "Homo" group can interbreed

I nearly made a tasteless joke but ill refrain.

Interesting.. i wonder if we bred them out.

 

[Werewolf]

Interesting article: World's oldest-known rock art created by Neanderthals, not modern humans

Simple red ochre designs daubed on the walls of Spanish caves 64,000 years ago suggest Neanderthals were creative thinkers just like us... They painted a ladder, dots and hand stencils on the walls of three limestone caves at least 20,000 years before modern humans set foot in Europe... The paintings are evidence Neanderthals not only had the capacity to make art, but this ability evolved independently of modern humans.

 

[Wizard17]

Also saw some research that puts Homo Floresiensis as a sister species of Homo Habilis and not Homo Ergaster/Erectus as previously thought.

Also there's a doco on Homo Naledi I watched recently that is really interesting. The age demographic of the group is strikingly similar to a graveyard and apart from one owl there was no other fossils in the cave bar Naledi which is unusual to say the least.

 

[HerveyBayTiger]

This stuff is getting really interesting.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Interesting article: World's oldest-known rock art created by Neanderthals, not modern humans

Full paper here.

One of the authors thinks Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals, Homo Floresiensis, Homo Erectus and Denisovans were all the same species and that there has only ever been one human species.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/23/inenglish/1519391445_279243.html

There are some scientists who think humans originated in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/22/europe-birthplace-mankind-not-africa-scientists-find/

 

[Werewolf]

Full paper here.

One of the authors thinks Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals, Homo Floresiensis, Homo Erectus and Denisovans were all the same species and that there has only ever been one human species.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/23/inenglish/1519391445_279243.html

I'm out of my depth here, but I think for all the variants to be the same species or subspecies they'd need to be able to produce fertile offspring, grow to a similar stature and have similar intelligence (which is somewhat linked to brain volume), like modern humans.

There are some scientists who think humans originated in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/22/europe-birthplace-mankind-not-africa-scientists-find/

Europeans originating in Europe is more plausible IMO. Archaeologists continue to find progressively older human bone fragments.

E.g. Human finger bone fossil found in Saudi Arabia changes the story on human global migration

 

[Wizard17]

I'm out of my depth here, but I think for all the variants to be the same species or subspecies they'd need to be able to produce fertile offspring, grow to a similar stature and have similar intelligence (which is somewhat linked to brain volume), like modern humans

There have been people around trying to lessen the number of human our allies Austrolopithecus species for years.

The DNA and palaoanthropological evidence points to the main three known species that led to us (Neanderthal, Denisovan, Sapiens) all descended from H.Heidelbergensis. Heidelbergensis from Erectus/Ergaster. Erectus/Ergaster from a basal hominid.

Europeans originating in Europe is more plausible IMO. Archaeologists continue to find progressively older human bone fragments.

E.g. Human finger bone fossil found in Saudi Arabia changes the story on human global migration

This is interesting because either:

1 - Our DNA evidence is off. Meaning a lot of revision of data that has been gathered.
2 - Other groups left Africa and died out before the last migration 60,000ya. Got to remember that the climate at the end of the ice age was in a flux and it almost wiped out us out totally at one point. Smaller groups would have succumbed to these events.

 

[Melsy]

A fascinating documentary on the different species of humanity and their contribution of the modern DNA of modern homo sapiens was broadcast on the ABC tonight.

There now looks to be four other human species that co-existed with modern humanity.

Neanderthal, branched from modern homo sapiens about 500,000 - 700,000 years ago. Approximately 4% of the DNA of non-African modern humans is shared with Neanderthals, suggesting interbreeding after modern homo sapiens left Africa. About half of the Neanderthal genome is still in existence today.

Denisovans - fossils discovered about eight years ago. DNA analysis indicated that modern homo sapiens, the Denisovans last shared a common ancestor around 1 million years ago and split from the Neanderthals 400,000 years ago. Papuan New Guinean and Australian Aboriginal tribes have about 5% Denisovan ancestry heritage. It could be be that up to 60-80% of the Denisovan genome may still be existence in today's population, particularly in Asian populations.

Florians - last common ancestor with modern homo sapiens could have been homo ergaster, over 1.9 million years ago.

Archaic Africans - only thing known about them is the DNA which split from modern humans about 800,000 years ago in Africa. Interbreeding may have occurred with African homo sapiens occurred 20,000 to 50,000 years ago. Their DNA is found in modern Africans, but is different enough to be a distinct human species.

Mungo man

 

[Roylion]

Mungo man

Is Homo sapiens, maybe with about 5% Denivosian ancestry.

 

[CD Xbow]

Full paper here.

One of the authors thinks Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals, Homo Floresiensis, Homo Erectus and Denisovans were all the same species and that there has only ever been one human species.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/02/23/inenglish/1519391445_279243.html

There are some scientists who think humans originated in Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/22/europe-birthplace-mankind-not-africa-scientists-find/

Is Homo sapiens, maybe with about 5% Denivosian ancestry.

The way the old homos seem to have spent much of there time successfully rootin' and tootin' with each other makes me think it's better to regard them as sub species. This is actually quite an old idea, but I think it's getting more currency now because of modern genetic evidence, and it's consistent with the multiple 'out of africa' theories for later homos who later interbred a few times

Homo sapien would include:
Homo sapiens neanderthalensis (202 base pairs different to moderns)
Homo sapiens denisova (358 base pairs different to moderns)
Homo sapiens sapiens. - Us, we can have a few percent of neanderthal & denisovan genes depending on background.

H. floresiensis has features closer to H. habilus, a much older hominid and suggests it was a relic population of habilus that survived until relatively recently.

The split between neanderthal & denisovans occured about 750-800 thousand years ago, a bit earlier than H. heidelbergensis, so the last common ancestor and basal H. sapien needs to be before then. I'm not sure it's clear who is our immediate direct ancestor of the current candidates, if any.

 

[Admiral Byng]

if you are keen, DNA analysis and facial reconstruction done for Cheddar Man, the oldest complete skeleton found in the UK, about 10,000 years old.



Just under 48 minutes, TV doco... short summary - dark skinned with blue eyes.