Autopsy The Luke Beveridges coaching idiocy throws away the game thread.

[Hobdog]

Lipinski got on the end of 3 chances last week and due to the conditions missed all 3. Cav also scored. Still no idea why they were dropped for a bloke coming in cold in a must win game

Yeah not sure. Not necessarily saying my theory is on the money but wonder if they wanted him in purely for his accuracy, which obviously doesn’t mean anything if he’s unable to get the pill.


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[Doggy]

We've been smashed in the ruck all year and sit 7-7. It's definitely not a precursor to us winning or losing.
Our effort and execution is the main factor. Against a side like Geelong you can't have your execution off by very much or you'll lose.

Freo game is not in Perth

 

[Bazzas Lovechild]

We've been smashed in the ruck all year and sit 7-7. It's definitely not a precursor to us winning or losing.
Our effort and execution is the main factor. Against a side like Geelong you can't have your execution off by very much or you'll lose.

There’s ruck domination and then there’s what NicNat will do to whoever we put up (English, Dunkley, Macrae, Daniel, all of the above). It I s going to set records the kind of domination they will have with the first possession. NicNat is something else. They should beat us comfortably regardless of our effort.

 

[Bazzas Lovechild]

Freo game is not in Perth

Listed as a Freo home game? Have they played any home games away from Perth?

 

[Mattdougie]

Listed as a Freo home game? Have they played any home games away from Perth?

Won’t matter it will be a dead rubber

 

[fred cook]

Cats and Dogs ponder selection puzzle in run to finals

Geelong coach Chris Scott says a level-headed approach to overcoming the Western Bulldogs' first-quarter lead was the key to the Cats' triumph.

www.theage.com.au

Mat Suckling played well in Saturday's scratch match as did Zaine Cordy. Pat Lipinski and Roarke Smith were also solid, while Josh Schache kicked two goals.

Taylor Duryea played his first match for the season but is still a way off senior selection availability

 

[Virgin Dog]

Just out of interest is there anyone who contributes regularly to this board who understands and agrees with Bevo's ruck strategy?

My gut feeling is that the response from Bulldog fans (and from random visitors from other clubs) ranges from slightly bemused to angry or totally bewildered. Some have said they're done for the year.

I can't recall anyone actually coming out in support of it. So here's your chance for fame or notoriety ... who agrees with Bevo's ruck strategy?

Don't be afraid to come forward. We won't lynch you. (You may however be offered free counselling and be asked whether you even football ...)

I kinda did, up until a few weeks ago where it became painfully obvious that English was cooked. Then it became worse when Dunkley was once again stuffed around in the ruck. I support the accelerated development of English, but it's difficult to support what's been happening in the last month in particular

 

[Bazzas Lovechild]

Won’t matter it will be a dead rubber

True but I’m just curious as to the certainty that we’ll win it.

 

[weltschmerz]

I kinda did, up until a few weeks ago where it became painfully obvious that English was cooked. Then it became worse when Dunkley was once again stuffed around in the ruck. I support the accelerated development of English, but it's difficult to support what's been happening in the last month in particular

Yeah, I understand that Bevo wants English to develop as fast as possible and ruck every game, and doesn't want to take up bench space with a backup ruck so plays another of the 22 when English needs a break. But I don't understand why he chooses Dunkley over a bigger player like Bruce or even Gardner, or why he won't play a dual position player in Trengove who can do more than take up bench space when he's not rucking.

 

[Doggy]

Listed as a Freo home game? Have they played any home games away from Perth?

They are done with Perth

 

[dogwatch]

I am not stupid enough to take the bait dog-watch, but a question for you how do you view Josh Dunkley's regression as a mid ?

Dimly.

I feel sorry for him and for all of us who should be enjoying him as he plays as a true midfielder like he did late last year.

I accept that he has been injured for a good few games this year but he should be hitting his straps by now. Instead he's staring up the nostrils of ruckmen 10cm taller than him as the ball is thrown in from the boundary line.

 

[BEaston]

Just out of interest is there anyone who contributes regularly to this board who understands and agrees with Bevo's ruck strategy?

My gut feeling is that the response from Bulldog fans (and from random visitors from other clubs) ranges from slightly bemused to angry or totally bewildered. Some have said they're done for the year.

I can't recall anyone actually coming out in support of it. So here's your chance for fame or notoriety ... who agrees with Bevo's ruck strategy?

Don't be afraid to come forward. We won't lynch you. (You may however be offered free counselling and be asked whether you even football ...)

Can we have an agreed upon definition of his ruck strategy first? Haha.
I think English for centre bounces then Bruce backing up is a fine strategy.

I wouldn't really want both English and Trengove in the side, unless he replaced the 2nd tall in the backline (which I'd rather not). I don't want Sweet at all. He's a plodder and would be worse than than English.

 

[dogwatch]

Can we have an agreed upon definition of his ruck strategy first? Haha.
...

I think a lot of people are struggling with that. That's why it keeps cropping up in press conferences. And why I said someone who "understands and agrees"!

I'm not even sure Bevo has kept a steady position on what his ruck strategy is as the year has progressed, but I've pretty much given up trying to fathom it because it's doing my head in.

 

[Mr. Walker]

They are done with Perth

Yes, very sad. We don’t play Geelong in Geelong or WCE and Freo in Perth and still turn that good fortune into missing finals. We do have a special talent.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Listed as a Freo home game? Have they played any home games away from Perth?

They are done with Perth

Could be in Cairns

 

[Yojimbo]

Dimly.

I feel sorry for him and for all of us who should be enjoying him as he plays as a true midfielder like he did late last year.

I accept that he has been injured for a good few games this year but he should be hitting his straps by now. Instead he's staring up the nostrils of ruckmen 10cm taller than him as the ball is thrown in from the boundary line.

I watched an early Tim English game at Port Melbourne and the centre was boggy as, i watched in total shock as Tim English took on Khan Haretuku
and a former NEAFL seconds player until the injury came, with Tom Campbell in the dry goal square as the bear in the square. I think he missed
around five games the mud was almost sucking off his boots and he could not time his jump. Pathetic development he has the potential to play
elsewhere on the ground.

 

[ScragCity]

Just out of interest is there anyone who contributes regularly to this board who understands and agrees with Bevo's ruck strategy?

My gut feeling is that the response from Bulldog fans (and from random visitors from other clubs) ranges from slightly bemused to angry or totally bewildered. Some have said they're done for the year.

I can't recall anyone actually coming out in support of it. So here's your chance for fame or notoriety ... who agrees with Bevo's ruck strategy?

Don't be afraid to come forward. We won't lynch you. (You may however be offered free counselling and be asked whether you even football ...)

I understand it and I agree with it. If I were in Bevo's position with this list I'd be doing the same thing. What I don't agree with or understand is our list management.

Trengove has never been a number one ruck so if that's what we recruited him to be that was misguided. He's a stupid footballer and not only does he lose hitouts but he gives away a lot of ruck frees which is even worse. Jordan Sweet I haven't seen enough of so I'll have to take Bevo's word for it that he's not ready. As soon as we found out that Tom Boyd was retiring we should have gone out and found a placeholder ruck for English to develop behind. Someone like Paddy Ryder would have been perfect. Instead we put all of our eggs in one basket hoping that English could be the man. However, there was no real contingency plan for if English got injured or wasn't up to it. It's an absolute indictment on the club's list management (over which I presume Bevo has a large say) that we don't currently have an AFL standard ruck. It's inexcusable.

Do I think it's a good strategy? No. Is it the least s**t option out of a few s**t options? Yep. Is it good for career and development of Dunkley and English? Nope. Does it give us the best chance of winning any given game? I think so, yes.

I'd be interested in trying a variation of our strategy in which we don't actually contest the ruck at all except for in centre bounce. I'd sit an extra player at the back of the stoppage to try and turn it over when they win the clearance.

 

[PKPK]

Dunks - all Aust last year - stuff all this year (but he has been injured) last night he started well and had no influence in the last 3 quarters ‘cause he was:

1/ stuffed from wrestling
2/ out of position when the ball breaks
3/ constantly mis-matched
4/ inexperienced in role

His strength is competing for ground balls and in tight. When you ruck you’re not doing that.

Beverage said in his interview that it offers us another onballer. BS.
We actually lose one.

Our onballers were average ‘cause they spend half their time trying to:
1/ rove to a non ruckman or wrestle a ruckman themselves. It must be really shitting them trying to rove to the opposition most of the time.

We start every centre bounce on the back foot and every game is predictable for the opposition. They know what to expect and our weaknesses are very obvious. The coach thinks it’s different and unpredictable. FFS.

Bevo also keeps saying Sweet isn’t up to it yet. Weird - I haven’t seen him play.
Bailey Smith was given a go likewise Latham, Naughty etc so that’s just BS as well. Give the young big unit a crack at it and find out. He has been in the system 2 years and will at least have a crack in the middle and at the throw ins.

Bevo needs to swallow his pride and admit the game plan just doesn’t stand up against the better teams who have at least 2 rucks and other big players which provides the flexibility and harder edge we currently don’t have.

He and his offsiders don’t seem to want to change a losing formula and are not gaining any friends when they don’t have a plan B when our rucks are non competitive or non existent.

In 2016 we had bigger harder bodies every week and 2 rucks for most of the time with Boyd and Roughy.

English isn’t a ruckman yet and needs to earn his spot or have someone to support him who is harder.

3 years of the same shite is wearing thin.

Not happy Jan.




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[weltschmerz]

Bevo also keeps saying Sweet isn’t up to it yet. Weird - I haven’t seen him play.
Bailey Smith was given a go likewise Latham, Naughty etc so that’s just BS as well. Give the young big unit a crack at it and find out. He has been in the system 2 years and will at least have a crack in the middle and at the throw ins.

Hell, Ryan Gardner was played within a week of being drafted and has had more games than players who look far more promising.

 

[dogwatch]

I understand it and I agree with it. If I were in Bevo's position with this list I'd be doing the same thing. What I don't agree with or understand is our list management.

Trengove has never been a number one ruck so if that's what we recruited him to be that was misguided. He's a stupid footballer and not only does he lose hitouts but he gives away a lot of ruck frees which is even worse. Jordan Sweet I haven't seen enough of so I'll have to take Bevo's word for it that he's not ready. As soon as we found out that Tom Boyd was retiring we should have gone out and found a placeholder ruck for English to develop behind. Someone like Paddy Ryder would have been perfect. Instead we put all of our eggs in one basket hoping that English could be the man. However, there was no real contingency plan for if English got injured or wasn't up to it. It's an absolute indictment on the club's list management (over which I presume Bevo has a large say) that we don't currently have an AFL standard ruck. It's inexcusable.

Do I think it's a good strategy? No. Is it the least sh*t option out of a few sh*t options? Yep. Is it good for career and development of Dunkley and English? Nope. Does it give us the best chance of winning any given game? I think so, yes.

I'd be interested in trying a variation of our strategy in which we don't actually contest the ruck at all except for in centre bounce. I'd sit an extra player at the back of the stoppage to try and turn it over when they win the clearance.

The bit of Bevo's ruck strategy that I think I do understand is that he doesn't rate rucks and that this has filtered through to (or has been impressed upon) the recruiting staff. Don't waste picks or trade currency on ruckmen!

Ideally we'd have a low-ceiling but competent cast-off or understudy like Preuss. Then the rest of this nonsense would be unnecessary.

 

[ScragCity]

I think a lot of people are struggling with that. That's why it keeps cropping up in press conferences. And why I said someone who "understands and agrees"!

I'm not even sure Bevo has kept a steady position on what his ruck strategy is as the year has progressed, but I've pretty much given up trying to fathom it because it's doing my head in.

I'll explain the thinking behind Bevo's ruck strategy.

His strategy is based on the premise that regardless of who we put in there we will lose the hitouts. Now you can argue with that premise if you want but that's what Bevo believes and I agree. Now you have to obviously consider that the extent to which you lose the hitouts will vary. Caleb Daniel will lose the hitouts 'harder' than Tim English. This means that against Caleb Daniel a ruckman will have complete control as opposed to against Tim English let's say he would have about 60% control. But what about a Josh Dunkley, who is 190cm? Let's say the opposition ruck will have something like 80% control against Dunkley. So English will lose the hitouts somewhat less hard than Dunkley would. Maybe that equates to something like five hitouts to advantage. So that's what we lose by rucking Dunkley. Maybe five hitouts to advantage. So then what do we gain with Dunkley? It allows us to play an extra mid who is going to provide us with a lot more than English would in the stoppage after we lose the hitouts. I believe this is what Bevo's thinking is. If we had a ruck who was capable of breaking even in the ruck contest I think it would be a no brainer that we would play him, as long as he isn't a complete liability outside the ruck contest.

 

[dogwatch]

I'll explain the thinking behind Bevo's ruck strategy.

His strategy is based on the premise that regardless of who we put in there we will lose the hitouts. Now you can argue with that premise if you want but that's what Bevo believes and I agree. Now you have to obviously consider that the extent to which you lose the hitouts will vary. Caleb Daniel will lose the hitouts 'harder' than Tim English. This means that against Caleb Daniel a ruckman will have complete control as opposed to against Tim English let's say he would have about 60% control. But what about a Josh Dunkley, who is 190cm? Let's say the opposition ruck will have something like 80% control against Dunkley. So English will lose the hitouts somewhat less hard than Dunkley would. Maybe that equates to something like five hitouts to advantage. So that's what we lose by rucking Dunkley. Maybe five hitouts to advantage. So then what do we gain with Dunkley? It allows us to play an extra mid who is going to provide us with a lot more than English would in the stoppage after we lose the hitouts. I believe this is what Bevo's thinking is. If we had a ruck who was capable of breaking even in the ruck contest I think it would be a no brainer that we would play him, as long as he isn't a complete liability outside the ruck contest.

Except it doesn't appear to have panned out like that. Dunkley contributed very little as a midfielder after QT. I think someone else posted the stats - but you could see that without needing the stats.

It also doesn't explain why the other (admittedly limited) options aren't tried/persisted with, such as Young, Bruce, Schache. All can play other roles when not helping out in the ruck.

I haven't seen enough of Sweet but if he's an unplayable plodder why keep him on the list? Trengove maybe is a plodder too but as a 60% KPP and a 40% chop out for English thus releasing Dunkley to actually have a positive midfield impact it still makes a lot more sense than what we saw last night. I see you have no time for Trengove as a KPP either but he's not the only option other than Dunkley.

And as you say, it's an indictment on our list management ...

 

[doggies ftw]

Would take Naughty over the Kings 10 times out of 10. He has an edge to him those boys just don’t, plus he’s a better mark anyway which is their major strength. Let’s give him the supply he deserves please

 

[Astro_]

 

[Mantis Toboggan]

I'll explain the thinking behind Bevo's ruck strategy.

His strategy is based on the premise that regardless of who we put in there we will lose the hitouts. Now you can argue with that premise if you want but that's what Bevo believes and I agree. Now you have to obviously consider that the extent to which you lose the hitouts will vary. Caleb Daniel will lose the hitouts 'harder' than Tim English. This means that against Caleb Daniel a ruckman will have complete control as opposed to against Tim English let's say he would have about 60% control. But what about a Josh Dunkley, who is 190cm? Let's say the opposition ruck will have something like 80% control against Dunkley. So English will lose the hitouts somewhat less hard than Dunkley would. Maybe that equates to something like five hitouts to advantage. So that's what we lose by rucking Dunkley. Maybe five hitouts to advantage. So then what do we gain with Dunkley? It allows us to play an extra mid who is going to provide us with a lot more than English would in the stoppage after we lose the hitouts. I believe this is what Bevo's thinking is. If we had a ruck who was capable of breaking even in the ruck contest I think it would be a no brainer that we would play him, as long as he isn't a complete liability outside the ruck contest.

At what percentage of ‘control’ do opposition rucks try volleying the ball straight out of the air like Hawkins did last night? Or having the confidence to take possession of the footy knowing that they have dispatched their opponent to the ground while the ball was in the air.

There’s lots of factors that influence a game but one of the biggest and hardest to conjure is confidence. I think accepting defeat in every ruck contest is fundamentally flawed as it breeds confidence in our opposition that they are ALWAYS going to get the first look at the footy.