The Manager Merry-go-Round

[Cooldude]

Rafa makes choices base on sentiments, which is why he doesn't necessarily make the best choices career wise but the fans in clubs he's managed love him

 

[SM]

Form is temporary. Class is permanent.
There will never be an instance where Burnley to Arsenal or Liverpool is a sideways move.

What about Dyche to Leeds?

 

[RossFC]

 

[kangaspurs]

Merson is a ******* moron.

Kirkland doesn't sound much better either tbh. This whole nonsense about Unsworth 'knowing the club' is garbage. That has no effect on managerial ability. And how do English managers get an opportunity from managing youth sides? Why don't they drop down the Leagues and manage a smaller side and prove their worth in professional football instead of just thinking that they're entitled to a plum PL job.

 

[Latro]

Merson is a ******* moron.

Kirkland doesn't sound much better either tbh. This whole nonsense about Unsworth 'knowing the club' is garbage. That has no effect on managerial ability. And how do English managers get an opportunity from managing youth sides? Why don't they drop down the Leagues and manage a smaller side and prove their worth in professional football instead of just thinking that they're entitled to a plum PL job.

Merson really struggling with timezones as well.

 

[largebus]

Would Arsenal fans take Rafa over Wenger?

 

[Latro]

No

 

[hairy biker]

Would Arsenal fans take Rafa over Wenger?

At this stage I'm tipping some would take Alan Pardew over Wenger.

His claim on the weekend "..(referees) levels drop every season at the moment ", could equally have been a commentary on his team.

 

[apollo_creed]

Rafa is not good. 2 years a go he was a joke on here.

To who? He's an excellent manager.

 

[David Moyes]

David Moyes ******* lol.

Laugh all you want, just remember I'm rich and famous and you're not.

 

[Zidane98]

Laugh all you want, just remember I'm rich and famous and you're not.

You could've really rubbed it in by mentioning that you are still in the Premier League while Sunderland is not.

 

[FAITH]

Laugh all you want, just remember I'm rich and famous and you're not.

you have to be typeclub surely

 

[Bomberboyokay]

The Biggest Obstacle for Young British Coaches? Old British Coaches

By Rory Smith Nov. 9, 2017

On Oct. 27, Sam Allardyce sat down in a television studio in Doha, Qatar. It was two days after Everton had fired Ronald Koeman as its manager, and four since Leicester City had appointed Claude Puel, a Frenchman, to the same post.

Allardyce was in the Gulf to appear on the beIN Sports show hosted by Richard Keys and Andy Gray, the veteran British broadcasting duo drifting into a reluctant obsolescence after being ostracized for a workplace harassment scandal. He was there, in part, to discuss what Keys described as the “glass ceiling” faced by English managers.

This is, of course, Allardyce’s specialist subject. He has long championed the idea that British coaches are too readily overlooked by Premier League clubs in thrall to exotic imports. In 2010, he declared that he was better “suited” to managing Real Madrid or Manchester United than his then employers, Blackburn Rovers. Two years later, he decreed that he would have been a Champions League coach if only he had a more glamorous surname.

In Keys and Gray, Allardyce knew he had a sympathetic audience. Last December, he had appeared on the same show to claim that the Premier League’s top six were appointing “branded” foreign coaches because they held more global appeal. A couple of days before his October appearance, Keys had tweeted that Leicester’s appointment of Puel sounded a death knell for British coaching.

In front of his willing audience, Allardyce readily reprised his greatest hit. British coaches, he said, are now seen as “second class” in England. They have, he said, “nowhere to go.”

“The Premier League is a foreign league in England,” he concluded.

Allardyce should be delighted, then, at the events of the last two weeks. Leicester might have followed the fashion for the foreign, but West Ham did not: it has appointed David Moyes, a Scot, to replace its Croatian coach, Slaven Bilic. And Everton seems set to follow. Within a few days of his appearance in Doha, Allardyce himself was reported to have held talks with Farhad Moshiri, the club’s largest shareholder, over Koeman’s position.

Indeed, Allardyce’s passion for British coaches is matched only by his prescience. A week after he had appeared with Keys and Gray in December last year, he was appointed as manager of Crystal Palace. Two weeks after his most recent remarks, he is in line to return to work again. It is almost as if he sets out to make himself visible — and his employment a moral, as well as professional, issue — whenever he suspects opportunities may arise. They say sharks can sense blood in the water.

The reality is, however, that the appointment of Moyes, and the prospective return of Allardyce, will not be cause for celebration for any British coaches other than the two men themselves. It should, in fact, be precisely the opposite. On the surface, nobody has done more to highlight the plight of British managers than Allardyce (or Moyes). Beneath it, both men — and those like them — are part of the problem, not the solution.

There are 92 clubs in the four professional divisions of English soccer. At the time of writing, 22 have foreign coaches. Precisely half of those men work in the Premier League, and among those 11 are the bosses at all six of the teams — Arsenal, Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool, Manchester City and Manchester United — that might reasonably hope to win the title at the start of any given season.

That number has been slowly increasing in recent years, giving rise to the broadly held, largely accepted assumption, as voiced by Allardyce, that foreign managers are blocking the path of England’s own bright young things.

The premise does not, though, stand up to scrutiny. Four of the top six clubs have been managed by a Briton at least once in the last decade: Alex Ferguson and Moyes at Manchester United; Kenny Dalglish and Brendan Rodgers at Liverpool; Harry Redknapp and Tim Sherwood at Tottenham; Mark Hughes at Manchester City.

Only Chelsea and Arsenal — a fairly unusual case when it comes to managerial stability — have not given a British manager an opportunity. In the circumstances, if anything, the remainder of the elite have been a little too nationalist in their appointments.

All six see themselves as Champions League clubs. It is reasonable for them to believe that the most qualified candidates for their managerial posts are those who have managed Champions League clubs previously. Those candidates, logically, are most often found abroad.

It is below them where the real problem lies. Of the eight — nine, if Allardyce is appointed at Everton — British managers in the Premier League, only one, Bournemouth’s Eddie Howe, is under age 40. Only two more — Burnley’s Sean Dyche and Swansea City’s Paul Clement — are under 50.

The rest range from 54 (Moyes, now installed at West Ham, and Hughes at Stoke) to 70 (Roy Hodgson, Palace’s latest manager). Between them, and including Allardyce, they have held 25 Premier League jobs.

It would be harsh to suggest that all of them are without merit, or to dismiss their experience out of hand, but it is worth noting that failure does not seem to reduce their employability. Moyes’s work in almost a decade at Everton was impressive, but he has won only five home league games in more than two years. He was fired by Manchester United, Real Sociedad and Sunderland, whom he led to relegation. West Ham still appointed him, despite howls of protest from its fans, to try to avoid the same fate.

The second-tier Championship has the same problem: 7 of its 24 managers are foreign, but more telling is that only 5 of the 17 British coaches in the division are 40 or under.

In League One, the 24-team third division, there are only six British coaches under 40. In League Two, there are eight (and plenty more only a little over 40), though it is worth noting that many of those clubs that employ a novice — the likes of Barnet and Yeovil Town — do not necessarily have the budget to attract a more established name.

Across those three divisions, though, there are 19 managers over the age of 50. Between them, they have been appointed by English clubs 103 times; Cardiff City’s Neil Warnock is the clubhouse leader, in his 14th league job.

So Allardyce is right: there is a glass ceiling. It is just that it is not one that has been constructed by migrant workers, but by him and his ilk. It is not foreign coaches who prevent young British hopefuls from finding jobs, but older native managers. So stifling is their effect that it is hard to list half a dozen realistic, English contenders for a Premier League job. It is not just that a generation of domestic coaches are not being given a chance; it is that there is not a generation of domestic coaches to be given a chance.

Eager to rectify that, the Football Association has invested no little time or resources in recent years in improving its coaching courses at the game’s new national base, St. George’s Park. In the facility’s first five years, more than 1,300 prospective managers passed through its doors. Who knows what bright ideas, what clever innovations, they might collectively possess?

Nobody, alas, will ever find out. The world they are entering is barren, inhospitable. Not because Manchester United appointed José Mourinho or Liverpool hired Jurgen Klopp, but because the rungs beneath those clubs are already occupied by a group of men who have been there for a decade or more, and who are always offered a hand back up, no matter how many times they fall off.

It is that lack of imagination from clubs that makes English managers seem so limited compared to their continental peers, and ensures that English managers are always adopting German, Italian or Spanish concepts and styles: These are the same old ideas, riddled with the same old flaws, regurgitated again and again.

It is that misidentification of failure as experience, too, that explains why British coaching remains so steadfastly white — the same old faces means the same old color — and why the Premier League’s most ambitious teams are now, increasingly, managed by foreigners.

It is not that those teams do not want to appoint locally; realistically, they cannot. They look at the proving grounds of the lower reaches of the Premier League — Howe and Dyche aside — and into the Championship, where the future should be, and see only the past.

There is nothing wrong with Allardyce’s conclusion. There are too few opportunities for young English coaches. It is his explanation that is incorrect. The imports are not blocking the road: it is Allardyce, and those he represents, standing in the way.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/...latest&contentPlacement=2&pgtype=sectionfront

 

[go you pups]

Imo Eddie Howe needs to move up in the managerial world. He's done an amazing job with Bournemouth, but taking on an established mid table team needs to be his next move to see if he can indeed improve said team and see if he can indeed eventually get to a Tottenham/Liverpool/Arsenal level in say 5 years time.

Perhaps Brodge will throw his hat back into the ring once he feels he can get nothing more out of Celtic too.

 

[go you pups]

I think with Evertons current squad and situation, Sam would be a solid 18 month option for them.

He has plenty of experience working with older types and with struggling teams and Everton don't exactly have a lot of speed in their side, his direct, hoofball approach could well work for them.

They will obviously need to regenerate their squad, but in their current predicament he has the experience to get the best out of what he has.

 

[Donnie Darko]

If Swansea lose to Burnley , I think Clement will be gone.

 

[SM]

Silva's odds have been slashed to join Everton apparently.

 

[Donnie Darko]

relegation confirmed

 

[Sozabarus]

Imo Eddie Howe needs to move up in the managerial world. He's done an amazing job with Bournemouth, but taking on an established mid table team needs to be his next move to see if he can indeed improve said team and see if he can indeed eventually get to a Tottenham/Liverpool/Arsenal level in say 5 years time.

It's strange how Howe's name isn't even getting mentioned for jobs anymore, it's all about Dyche now. Both have done an incredible job but when before it was Howe getting all the attention and Dyche was the forgotten man, it seems to have flipped.

There's nothing more Howe can do with Bournemouth now, they finished top half last season which is as good as it's going to get. The only way is down so I think he's got to make that move as soon as possible.

 

[RossFC]

Silva's odds have been slashed to join Everton apparently.

Not a bad move I reckon.

 

[Latro]

Why would Watford let him leave?

 

[RossFC]

Why would Watford let him leave?

They have had 8 or 9 managers in the last 5 years. They'd probs sack him anyway.

 

[go you pups]

It's strange how Howe's name isn't even getting mentioned for jobs anymore, it's all about Dyche now. Both have done an incredible job but when before it was Howe getting all the attention and Dyche was the forgotten man, it seems to have flipped.

There's nothing more Howe can do with Bournemouth now, they finished top half last season which is as good as it's going to get. The only way is down so I think he's got to make that move as soon as possible.

Yep agreed, otherwise he'll be in a constant cycle of Championship to PL to Championship of the likes of Neil Warnock, Chris Hughton, Ian Holloway, Steve Bruce etc.

Surely he has the potential to be better than those guys.

 

[Donnie Darko]

Everton trying to get Marco Silva from Watford...

 

[SM]

Everton trying to get Marco Silva from Watford...

Thanks Perth.