The Law The Many Problems With Our Legal System

[Rod Stroker]

Couldn't find a relevant thread so started this one.

Reading this just makes my blood boil. 3.5 years jail for a drug ****ed booze filled dickhead, who beat a 78 year old grandmother unconscious, broke her pelvis, put her in hospital, and she now can't care for her husband. Thugs like this with no respect for other people who aren't causing any harm, don't deserve to be on this planet. Would not be upset if he doesn't make it out of prison.

Much harsher penalties required down there as a deterrent against abhorrent behaviour like this. They need to adopt a zero tolerance approach with dire consequences, works well here in Singers.

‘Cowardly assault’: Jail for man who beat 78yo woman unconscious outside church

A 27-year-old science student who beat a grandmother unconscious on the steps of her South Yarra church will spend at least 3½ years in jail.

www.theage.com.au

Mod edit: don't evade the swear filter.

 

[ElectricG]

Surprised he did any time at all.

 

[Evolved1]

The article says he has schizophrenia; that may have more to do with his actions than alcohol.

 

[Grin]

I think more cops and longer gaol terms is a great solution to any problem.
The Liberal Party should make it part of their platform to attract the votes of thinking Australians

 

[Rusty Brookes]

I'm all for tougher sentences on violent crime but a bit lost on what the drugs aspect has to do with it, unless we're talking alcohol. He was drinking all night at a nightclub before going off on a violent rampage. Noting he is schizophrenic and a marijuana user just highlights the issue with the criminalisation of drugs. The research is pretty clear - schizophrenia and marijuana use don't go well and the likelihood of violent outcomes is increased. So rather than allowing drugs to be distributed by criminals whose sole motive is profit, wouldn't it be better to have some control over it and ensure people that are at high risk have their access reduced? The war on drugs has failed. And it's highly hypocritical to talk about illegal drugs when legal drugs like alcohol cause so much damage.

alcohol-related-harm-2016

www.surgeons.org

BTW - unless I missed it, there's nothing in there about the perp suffering an episode at the time or being stoned. I'm guessing he wasn't experiencing an episode hence his gaol sentence.

 

[Gough]

Treating addiction as a medical rather than criminal problem would be a good start.

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Really good thread.
I was disgusted about the article referenced.
It's one thing to have an addiction, it's another to act it out in an anti-social manner.
We talk about how we should be more Asian - well less anti social behaviour is not tolerated in singapore this is true.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Really good thread.
I was disgusted about the article referenced.
It's one thing to have an addiction, it's another to act it out in an anti-social manner.
We talk about how we should be more Asian - well less anti social behaviour is not tolerated in singapore this is true.

lol. Do you have a challenge to insert a racist s**t eater reference in every post?

 

[Gethelred]

lol. Do you have a challenge to insert a racist s**t eater reference in every post?

Think they were being complementary about social decorum in Singapore rather than referring to it as an innate trait.

 

[Schneebly11]

Asian culture is more concentrated on collectivism and respect for society, rather than individualism and “muh rights” as a priority. So I don’t know if an Asian style justice strayed would work here, we would hav to change our entire society over a period of generations for it to fully work.

The other model for reducing recidivism and crime is the Nordic model which almost the opposite, very humane and rehabilitative focused criminal justice system.

 

[Gethelred]

Asian culture is more concentrated on collectivism and respect for society, rather than individualism and “muh rights” as a priority. So I don’t know if an Asian style justice strayed would work here, we would hav to change our entire society over a period of generations for it to fully work.

The other model for reducing recidivism and crime is the Nordic model which almost the opposite, very humane and rehabilitative focused criminal justice system.

Prefer the latter, myself. Society is better off for rehabilitating people than punishing them.

 

[Taylor]

The choice isn't between individualism and collectivism, it's between appreciating that rights come with responsibilities or not.

Collectivism would have everyone with a mental illness collected, impounded and then either treated or isolated from society for the good of the rest. I think most people would think that abhorrent.

In this case, a person who should have not been putting themselves in a position where they become a threat to others did, they had a responsibility to guard society from their struggles and because that wasn't upheld someone else suffered - and their right to freedom and management of their issues in society was revoked.

I prefer a society where only those mentally ill who do not know they are mentally ill, and those who are unwilling or unable to manage their conditions in a way that keeps themselves and others safe, should be detained.

 

[Schneebly11]

Prefer the latter, myself. Society is better off for rehabilitating people than punishing them.

I don’t think Australia would be able to adopt an Asian style criminal justice system without a relevant culture in place.

We’d be better off with a humane Nordic model, but it would be absolute electoral poison for politicians, as they will be petrified of being labelled “soft on crime”, even though that is proven to get results.

We follow the Anglosphere mentality of “we just brutalise and punish criminals as hard as we can”. Here’s a Tory UK politician touring a Norwegian Prison. Even though she’s told that the prison system in Norway achieves much better results (fewer prisoners return) than the UK she still says it’s a failure as the prisoners aren’t being tortured hard enough. This mentality is what stuffs up Australia too:

 

[ExcitementMachine]

lol. Do you have a challenge to insert a racist s**t eater reference in every post?

I think you are in some way defending the behaviour of the thug who beat the elderly woman up

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I think you are in some way defending the behaviour of the thug who bear the elderly woman up

Think what you want


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[ExcitementMachine]

Think what you want


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I think you are a self proclaimed anti social thug

 

[ExcitementMachine]

Prefer the latter, myself. Society is better off for rehabilitating people than punishing them.

You can rehabilitate and punsih the degenerates aka article of the person who beat up an elderly woman.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I think you are a self proclaimed anti social thug

Meh. I’d gladly see him sorted out in prison.

Just as I view racist dogs as anti social.


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[Gethelred]

You can rehabilitate and punsih the degenerates aka article of the person who beat up an elderly woman.

No you cannot. Punishment does nothing to fix the behaviour. It's retribution.

In one of the first criminology units I took, they gave us two case studies. The case studies were very similar; both featured a girl aged below 12 and two boys between 14-18. One of them was in America, the other in the Netherlands. The details of the cases I won't go into, but it was ******* confronting; the girl in the Netherlands was murdered as well as raped, where the girl in America was found afterwards.

In the first case study, the two perpetrators had their names and photographs in the papers. They both were sent to juvenile prison, then adult prison. Both went on to have further issues with the law, one of them falling into addiction and depression and the other committing suicide.

In the Netherlands case study, the boys were left in the community. The saw the parents of the girl the murdered, every day. They went to school, and everyone knew what they had done. They were forced to explain themselves to the parents of their victim. They were forced to confront the consequences of their actions as a part of the society. They went on to have jobs, to be a part of society, and to contribute to it.

Now, far be it from me to tell people how to react in that circumstance; if someone did that to a child of mine, I'd be looking up ideas on Jigsaw traps. But having said that, the more evolved - some would say, more ruthless - response is to force guilt upon them; to force them to confront what they did every day within the society, beside the people they wronged. They see the sadness, and know it's their fault. Placing people within an Anglocentric criminal justice system results in more criminals, and that effect multiplies when those people are young.

It comes down to why we imprison people. Do we do it to punish them, or to keep wider society safe from them?

 

[ExcitementMachine]

The OP?!?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Have you been sorted put in prison?

Only good nazi is a dead one, champ.


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[Gethelred]

Collectivism would have everyone with a mental illness collected, impounded and then either treated or isolated from society for the good of the rest.

Citation needed, only a lot.

 

[Taylor]

Citation needed, only a lot.

It's the basis of the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

It's the reason why collectivism is dangerous.

 

[Gethelred]

It's the basis of the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

It's the reason why collectivism is dangerous.

So, nothing but theory, then?

The problem I had with that paragraph is that it's the strawiest of strawmen I've ever seen. At no point have we had a society that collectivist in history. Never. It hasn't happened.

So, while I concede that if you were to get some lawful stupid collectivists together and forced them into a 'collectivism or DEATH!!!' mindset you might see something along those lines, I reject the idea that it's a credible hypothetical.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

It's the basis of the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

It's the reason why collectivism is dangerous.

Like nationalism?


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