Analysis The Matt Taberner effect

Discussion in 'Fremantle' started by samFFC, May 13, 2015.

Put it out there
  1. youmewe

    youmewe Club Legend

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    Setting a very high bar there.

    No player in (recorded) history has ever achieved those numbers.

    Season record (15+ games): Loewe (St K) 3.94 per game (2000); Cloke (Coll) 3.80 (2011) and Richardson (Rich) 3.75 (1999).

    Career record (50+ games): Richardson 2.77 per game; Loewe 2.52 and Carey (North) 2.22.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
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  2. imperial_oz

    imperial_oz Norm Smith Medallist

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    So, he's a poor mark because he's good at contested marks???

    Your logic is somewhat improbable at best. He's Freo's leader in contested marks by some margin this year. That includes a pretty handy lead over 'good' marks like Pav, who has had more ball sent his way over the course of the season.

    He's Freo's leading contested marker because he's a good mark. He uses his sized and mobility to good effect and I think he will continue to improve in that area. To say he's a poor mark when the stats clearly show the opposite...well somebody has completely missed the point
     
  3. youmewe

    youmewe Club Legend

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    Our marks inside 50 stats are dominated by the obvious suspects.

    Mayne 1.69 per game / Pav 1.57 / Ballantyne 1.44 / Fyfe 1.40 / Tabs 1.29 / Walters 1.22. No one else has more than 3 for the season.

    When it comes to contested marks inside forward 50 we have a new leader...Tabs.

    Tabs has 13 / Pav 12 / Walters 7 / Mayne 5 / Ballas 4 / Fyfe 4 (Tabs and Pav have only played 14 games each. Fyfe 5).

    The actual breakdown is: Mayne 27 (5 contested / 22 uncontested); Ballas 23 (4 / 19); Pavlich 22 (12 / 10); Walters 21 (7 / 14); Tabs 18 (13 / 5); Fyfe 7 (4 / 3).

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tabs' 18 marks inside 50 is good for only equal 49th in the league.

    The league leaders are: Lynch (GC) 60 (34 contested / 26 uncontested); Kennedy (WC) 56 (20 / 36); Hawkins (G) 50 (20 / 30); Hogan (M) 49 (23 / 26); J. Riewoldt (R) 49 (16 / 33); Franklin (S) 45 (16 / 29); Jenkins (A) 41 (16 / 25); Darling (WC) 40 (16 / 24); Gunston (H) 38 (16 / 22); Membrey (ST K) 35 (10 / 25); Walker 35 (15 / 20); Waite 34 (16 / 18); Dixon 33 (22 / 11) and N. Riewoldt 33 (12 / 21).

    Looking only at contested marks inside 50 per game: Lynch 2.12; Hogan 1.44; Dixon 1.38; Hawkins 1.33; Kennedy 1.25; Waite 1.23; J. Riewoldt 1.00; Franklin 1.00; Jenkins 1.00; Darling 1.00; Gunston 1.00; Walker 0.94; Tabs 0.93; Membrey 0.91 and N. Riewoldt 0.75.

    Applying my 'flat track adjuster' (only considering games v top 8 teams) the figures look like this: Lynch 1.62; Hawkins 1.57; Waite 1.50; Hogan 1.33; Franklin 1.22; Dixon 1.14; N. Riewoldt 1.14; Gunston 1.00; Walker 1.00; Tabs 1.00; Jenkins 0.88; Kennedy 0.83; Darling 0.83; J. Riewoldt 0.83 and Membrey 0.75.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tabs is tracking along very nicely.

    One curious trait re Tabs' marks inside 50...they tend to come early (first half of first quarter) or late (second half of fourth quarter)...8 out of 18.
     
  4. Steinfreo

    Steinfreo Club Legend

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    fantastic work man.
     
  5. Arcassius

    Arcassius Team Chaplain

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  6. Lach72

    Lach72 Bam!

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    If we could actually get an arm chop paid to our guys he'd be a monster
     
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  7. im_a_lazy_sod

    im_a_lazy_sod Norm Smith Medallist

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    Pav all over again lol. Guy got about 1 in 10 frees paid and then got the real bulshit ones paid against him
     
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  8. Rob

    Rob Brownlow Medallist

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    What stats show the opposite? A simple contested mark per game stat doesn't prove whether or not you're good at actually holding the ball. If you take 2 contested marks when you've had a reasonable chance to take 20 then that clearly doesn't say much for your marking ability.

    Tomorrow, count the number of times Tabs gets clean hands to a ball in a contested marking situation. He's bloody brilliant at it. What he's ordinary at is actually clutching the ball once it hits his hands. He does it now and then, hence why he usually takes a couple of CMs per game. But that doesn't prove he's a good mark.
     
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  9. Unique Name

    Unique Name Norm Smith Medallist

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    and you don't think that's the case for most forwards?

    Do you think Franklin/Kennedy/Dixon/Walker get more opportunities to take a contested mark than Tabs or less?


    All these forwards below will be getting more balls delivered in their direction than Tabs yet they have less contested marks on average.
    Kennedy
    Riewoldt x2
    Dixon
    Waite
    Franklin
    Walker
    Bruce

    No player clunks them all. Tabs for the most part now either wins it or stops the opposition from getting a mark and creates a loose ball.
     
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  10. Rob

    Rob Brownlow Medallist

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    I'm not questioning his worth to the team by any stretch, just saying he is elite at actually getting clean hands to the ball in a marking contest (as good as anyone going around IMO) but is still relatively shit at catching the ball.

    But i'm not going to compare him to most in that list. There's a lot more to being a good key forward than just clunking marks. Tabs agility could do with some improvement for example.
     
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  11. Kunna17

    Kunna17 Club Legend

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    i agree with you, but the first part is still a part of the mark. As such I would say he is quite a good contested mark, despite the fact he drops a few, as the first part of actually taking the mark is getting hands there.
     

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  12. scon

    scon Norm Smith Medallist

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    I've got bugger all to criticise about the rate of his development; as a rookie selection I'm very happy with the way he's tracking and have zero doubt that if he manages to continue this way we'll have snookered a serious KPF bargain.
    His entire game is improving at a very acceptable rate.
    If his development somehow stalls we'll still have a very serviceable tall.
     
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  13. meima

    meima Brownlow Medallist

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    Rookie list i consider Tab a bargain, will definetely not rate him as highly as other. Hope our trend continue with nyhuis and uber and a few rookie this year. A fit and firing fyfe will be the filling gap for pav.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
  14. imperial_oz

    imperial_oz Norm Smith Medallist

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    Seriously?

    He's Freo's leading contested mark by a long way. Thats the stat that says he's a good mark.

    If he was a bad mark, he simply wouldn't be taking so many. As for your scenario of having a chance at 20, that only shows you don't watch many games. Most of the ball going into the forward 50 goes to Pav not Tabs yet Tabs is well in front on the marking stats. What you're actually saying here is Pav is a poor mark not Tabs....and you'd be flat wrong again.

    You do not get to be the best contested mark in the side because your crap at marking. Its a fairly simple concept unless you are wanting to push a dead argument
     
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  15. electricfeel

    electricfeel Norm Smith Medallist

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    I swear to god he never gets any frees and could easily get at least 3 a game given the amount of times he gets his arms chopped. Ridiculous.
     
  16. scon

    scon Norm Smith Medallist

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    Umps have decided he's Pav's understudy.:straining::rolleyes:
     
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  17. Rob

    Rob Brownlow Medallist

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    My scenario? It was a hypothetical to show that one stat - being contested marks per game - isn't irrefutable proof of anything.

    Must have imagined all those marks he drops where he does 90% of the work and simply doesn't hang on to the ball.
     
  18. imperial_oz

    imperial_oz Norm Smith Medallist

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    It was a hypothetical that is demonstrably incorrect. All you have to do is watch a few games. He gets much less ball his way because our midfield concentrates on Pav, yet Tabs is our leading contested mark. Ok from far fewer opportunities. So, there goes your hypothetical.

    I compare him to Pav because he's one of the best marks in our team and Tabs stacks up pretty well. As others have correctly pointed out, if he got the umpires to apply the rules to him that they apply to other bigger name players, he'd be getting a lot more frees for the arm chops that are reducing his marking stats.

    Anyway, lets get down to tin tacks. I've shown you stats that refute what you are saying and you reply with hypotheticals. Show me the stats for dropped marks, those with no interference like arm chops or head high hits
     
  19. Rob

    Rob Brownlow Medallist

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    So because a statistic isn't taken, it therefore doesn't exist? Really?
     
  20. imperial_oz

    imperial_oz Norm Smith Medallist

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    No, its pointing out how your argument has no substance.

    You ignore the facts you don't like my making up hypotheticals to try and suggest they have no meaning but have no g=factual material to support your absurd contention. Forget your stupid hypotheticals. Show facts or bugger off back to the eagles
     
  21. Rob

    Rob Brownlow Medallist

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    You see, I actually watch the games.

    And 'bugger off back to the eagles'? Where dafuqq did that come from?
     
  22. imperial_oz

    imperial_oz Norm Smith Medallist

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    Stop ignoring whats been put to you. Put up facts not bullshit hypotheticals. Oh, you have none so you continue to deflect
     
  23. Rob

    Rob Brownlow Medallist

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    Put up facts? It's an opinion based on watching the game. There is no stat (that i'm aware of) that demonstrates ability to outmaneuver opponents but not quite complete the mark. Consequently I can't provide one. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    Are you the sort of person that determines the worth of players purely based on supercoach scores?
     
  24. imperial_oz

    imperial_oz Norm Smith Medallist

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    No Im the sort of person that calls out bullshit when its put up. You're the sort of person that can't handle that.

    Tabs is far better than you want to admit, god knows what you hope to achieve with this shit
     
  25. Rob

    Rob Brownlow Medallist

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    Eh? I rate Tabs pretty highly, and have said so many times in this thread. And you reckon i'm making shit up?

    Pull your head in.