Analysis The Matt Taberner effect

[kingswood71]

I don't think Tabs is a KPF. Plays more like a 200cm wing man

I am not sure if you are pulling the pee....
But, I have mentioned this for a couple of years. Tabs to me looks "more at home" up the ground. When given room to roam, he does quite well in making space and taking a mark. He is actually quite a good kick too.
I would not be adverse to trying him in a roaming tall wingers role....could improve our F50 entries!
He has the endurance.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

I think it's a case of the Highlanders. There can be only one. Lyon's backed Kersten.

 

[Outshined]

To be fair, Cox was very vanilla yesterday. Hardly influenced the contest and looked a step off. But hey if Kersten's 6 disposal, 2 goal game is play. Then Cox will be picked anyway

To be fair again though, sometimes in our current situation you do need to bite the bullet to an extent and just get guys like Cox who are clearly really talented a gig at the top level. That's not to say I'd be against him staying at WAFL until he puts in a good performance, just that it wouldn't be the worst decision to bring him back when he's showed enough in recent weeks.

I'd rather Taberner for Walters though. In a pipe dream, Grey for Ballantyne too.

 

[kingswood71]

I think it's a case of the Highlanders. There can be only one. Lyon's backed Kersten.

ha ha. You have way to much free time

 

[Nodgey]

It's an indictment on how badly we're playing that people think Taberner's the answer. And I consider myself a fan of his.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

ha ha. You have way to much free time

You're probably right you know.

I used to get caught up in the cyclical arguments, nowadays I just enjoy the lulz and outlet of a good photoshop sesh over a melt or internet shitfight.

 

[Gekko71]

Personally I believein Tabs - he's not overflowing with talent but he works hard and is still developing slowly but steadily - I have no idea what his ceiling is but I still believe.

I'm also taking Ross at face value on this one. As far as commentary goes: "The simple measure of kicking a few goals in the WAFL, that’s not the measure" ...that pretty much says it all really.

 

[kp junior]

Someone introduce him to Chicky. Tabs on meth would be awesome


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[Unique Name]

Someone introduce him to Chicky. Tabs on meth would be awesome


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Lol

 

[M_rash]

His opinion is that Taberner's contested marks don't count because they are all taken against small players. I think it's a fair question to ask if Taberner is only able to do it because he's matched up on small players, then why can't the rest of the team do it?

Of course it's a ridiculous claim by him to make, which is why he can't answer the question. Some people are just completely unwilling to give Taberner credit for anything.

Contested marks are one of Taberner's strengths. He was ranked in the top 20 in the AFL last year for contested marks. So I am giving a fair assessment of his strengths and weaknesses. It's the Tab bashers who aren't.

Mate. You are an A-grade w**ker. I asked how many were against KPD AND ALSO STATED THAT ITS GOOD HE CAN MARK AGAINST THE SMALLER PLAYERS. It was a genuine question about the split between contested marks against tall vs short players because stats don't tell the whole story. Your argument was about him as a KPF and having a physical presence based purely on contested marks. I was simply asking to dig a bit deeper than the figure nail deep stat review.

Keep quoting things out of context if it helps build whatever fantasy story you want to build. Clearly trying to have a reasonable discussion is beyond your means.

I haven't answered before now, because I don't watch this board 24/7. One reason he can mark better than others could maybe be because he's 200cm. That would probably help him compared to other players that aren't 200cm.

 

[ydraw]

Mate. You are an A-grade w**ker. I asked how many were against KPD AND ALSO STATED THAT ITS GOOD HE CAN MARK AGAINST THE SMALLER PLAYERS. It was a genuine question about the split between contested marks against tall vs short players

No it wasn't. Never heard you ask about the split for any other player in the competition and in any case you should know that no such details would be recorded. Nothing about your post was as genuine as your faux outrage suggests, you had a dig at me in the very next sentence after that.

Also you can leave out the name calling Allikat Righteo. If you can't argue without insulting people probably best not to post.

 

[M_rash]

I am not sure if you are pulling the pee....
But, I have mentioned this for a couple of years. Tabs to me looks "more at home" up the ground. When given room to roam, he does quite well in making space and taking a mark. He is actually quite a good kick too.
I would not be adverse to trying him in a roaming tall wingers role....could improve our F50 entries!
He has the endurance.

Not pulling the piss at all. Just about the 5th time I've said it over the past week is all

 

[M_rash]

No it wasn't. Never heard you ask about the split for any other player in the competition and in any case you should know that no such details would be recorded. Nothing about your post was as genuine as your faux outrage suggests, you had a dig at me in the very next sentence after that.

Also you can leave out the name calling Allikat Righteo. If you can't argue without insulting people probably best not to post.

Everything I've posted is genuine. You certainly seem to be taking this Taberner thread to heart, trying to manipulate the intent of other posters posts. I've posted multiple times that I don't think Tabs is a true KPF, rather a 200cm wing man or roaming forward. Given examples of why I think that and offered Westhoff as a genuine modern day analogue for him.

Your challenge was that he's taken contested marks. I rebutted by asking how many were against tall vs short players... because stats don't tell the full story. You then call my character into question with another poster, and again in the latest response.

Thanks for alerting the mods, they should probably change the thread title to the "ydraw effect" instead.

Please don't quote me out of context again. Would be much appreciated.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Your challenge was that he's taken contested marks. I rebutted by asking how many were against tall vs short players... because stats don't tell the full story. You then call my character into question with another poster, and again in the latest response.

By that reasoning, Sandi is a hack. He is taller than everyone else, racks up all the hit outs as a consequence of the height mismatch - best drop him to peel.

Sandi being taller is an advantage that we unashamedly use, there is nothing wrong with it.

As for the research, you are the one wanting to know, it's incumbent on you to do it and not anyone else.

 

[M_rash]

By that reasoning, Sandi is a hack. He is taller than everyone else, racks up all the hit outs as a consequence of the height mismatch - best drop him to peel.

Sandi being taller is an advantage that we unashamedly use, there is nothing wrong with it.

As for the research, you are the one wanting to know, it's incumbent on you to do it and not anyone else.

You're quite brilliant at using my reasoning out of context. By your reasoning of my reasoning I must think Walters is a hack because he's short.

Sandi has nothing to do with the Taberner discussion. Sandis height is an advantage in the ruck - no doubt.

I don't even need the stats to know the answer to the question - Taberner does lack physical presence as a KPF. Im simply implying that some things cannot be measured by statistics.

 

[FreoMonocle]

I see eye to eye with you on a lot of other stuff, even agree with a lot of your rationale on this particular topic M_rash.

But there are a few things that we are just going to disagree on here, Tabs flaws are clearly out there for all to see, I'm not heralding him as our forward line saviour and don't like the flaws in his game either. But he is all we have (Cox is not there yet)

But I see a tendency of yours to refuse to give credit for what he does right. For example his goals are not worth considering because it's the all the midfielders work or he only marks because of the mismatched height. Hang a man for the horse he has stolen and not the one he hasn't, a mark is a mark and particularly with our teams abysmal results in the last 2 weeks, a goal is a goal and not a fluffy insignificant thing.

 

[M_rash]

I see eye to eye with you on a lot of other stuff, even agree with a lot of your rationale on this particular topic M_rash.

But there are a few things that we are just going to disagree on here, Tabs flaws are clearly out there for all to see, I'm not heralding him as our forward line saviour and don't like the flaws in his game either. But he is all we have (Cox is not there yet)

But I see a tendency of yours to refuse to give credit for what he does right. For example his goals are not worth considering because it's the all the midfielders work or he only marks because of the mismatched height. Hang a man for the horse he has stolen and not the one he hasn't, a mark is a mark and particularly with our teams abysmal results in the last 2 weeks, a goal is a goal and not a fluffy insignificant thing.

I didn't actually discredit his goals. My only argument this whole time is that stats alone can't be used to judge a player. Be it goals or contested marks. Other posters keep pointing to stats, and I've just been trying to say that he has other things to work, that don't necessarily get reflected on a stat sheet, before getting recalled to the senior team. Ross basically said the exact same thing in his post match PC.

Posters seem to isolate a small part of a post, take it out of context, and refer to it as an absolute. Anyway, one of the joys of interweb forums I suppose

 

[Steinfreo]

I see eye to eye with you on a lot of other stuff, even agree with a lot of your rationale on this particular topic M_rash.

But there are a few things that we are just going to disagree on here, Tabs flaws are clearly out there for all to see, I'm not heralding him as our forward line saviour and don't like the flaws in his game either. But he is all we have (Cox is not there yet)

But I see a tendency of yours to refuse to give credit for what he does right. For example his goals are not worth considering because it's the all the midfielders work or he only marks because of the mismatched height. Hang a man for the horse he has stolen and not the one he hasn't, a mark is a mark and particularly with our teams abysmal results in the last 2 weeks, a goal is a goal and not a fluffy insignificant thing.

Why should his goals and marks be enough for us for him to be best 22 but not the match committee? Maybe the way M_rash is viewing his goals and marks is the way our match committee (made of afl premiership players and coaches*) does and, the way Tabs fans view his marks and goals is actually coming from a less thoughtful, less holistic place.

 

[jerms]

I actually don't disagree that Tab's ideal position is as an oversized winger, have said it on here a few times. However, we don't exactly have a swathe of genuine KPF options in order to really test that theory - as it stands, if he plays, he plays KPF. And I think he should, but obviously there's some either some KPI's that are way off or he's otherwise done something to piss off the selection committee.

 

[scon]

Dunno who the bloke Lyon cited was but played for Sandringham and slotted 100 goals/season more than once and never played a single VFL/AFL game.
Tabs knows what he's got to sort out and it'd be fantastic if he keeps making inroads,gets another contract and really puts it all together from next season onward.

 

[jerms]

Dunno who the bloke Lyon cited was but played for Sandringham and slotted 100 goals/season more than once and never played a single VFL/AFL game.
Tabs knows what he's got to sort out and it'd be fantastic if he keeps making inroads,gets another contract and really puts it all together from next season onward.

Nick Sautner IIRC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Sautner

[edit: GM at Eden Park is a pretty cool gig...]

 

[DMan 11]

Watching the peel v Subi replay and Taberner has been excellent so far (approaching half time)
Field kicking spot on, couple of good grabs...

 

[Silent Alarm]

If you've played 50 games, you're 24, and people are talking about alternative positions then you're ****ed. He was a last ditch attempt at a full forward and he was played because there was no one else; now because of that he's a default possibility of being called up or even being good.

He is absolutely terrible.

Dickhead AFL commentators say big players take longer to get good but he hasn't improved at all. And to be propositioned as a winger...? * me it's the death knell!


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[FreoMonocle]

Why should his goals and marks be enough for us for him to be best 22 but not the match committee? Maybe the way M_rash is viewing his goals and marks is the way our match committee (made of afl premiership players and coaches*) does and, the way Tabs fans view his marks and goals is actually coming from a less thoughtful, less holistic place.

Partly because we need goals, without them you lose...

But mostly because we persist in bombing the ball to the forward line without anyone there that might at least bring the ball to ground or heavens forbid, mark it. Doesn't have to be tabs, but who else is there?

The coaches haven't changed how we go about our forward entries, to drop the eyes and try and hit leading targets, to spread more - or not all jump at the ball (only to fail anyway) and have someone loose to mop up a spilled ball - we persist in bombing the ball in. Change our forward entries and the issue will die down, but as long as we regularly bomb it in without a target and knowing that the opposition will just outmark us, I will see Tabs selection as the only sensible thing to do.

 

[ydraw]

The coaches haven't changed how we go about our forward entries, to drop the eyes and try and hit leading targets, to spread more - or not all jump at the ball (only to fail anyway) and have someone loose to mop up a spilled ball - we persist in bombing the ball in. Change our forward entries and the issue will die down, but as long as we regularly bomb it in without a target and knowing that the opposition will just outmark us

Bombing the ball into the forward 50 is going to happen. Many times that kick is under pressure and you have no option but the bomb it long. Trying to create a game plan relying purely on hitting up leads is unrealistic.

What's frustrating about our team selections is that our coaches seemingly understand this from a defensive point of view - they expect long kicks coming into our defensive 50 from the opposite team, and pick 3 tall defenders accordingly (and always have). But they don't seem to see the value in having tall targets at the other end of the ground for whatever reason.