Analysis The Matt Taberner effect

freoextra

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Bump!

Since we spent about 10 pages arguing over why Tabs wasn’t getting a game, and what specifically he was asked to work on, why not hear from the Boss himself!

Quick refresher. There were those who were very upset about him not playing and believing it was due to needing to improve his ruck work. And there were those who weren’t really that phased and thought he was a bit of a derpy-derp with decision making.

People will still slam Ross for not playing him. The fact is, he’s very slow minded and that clearly needs to improve. He’s no superstar, but he’s the best we’ve got! Until Cox and Dixon overtake him. Big big year ahead for Tabs. He won’t be gifted games, but there’s plenty of opportunity if he’s good enough. Cmon son! Quick quick!

Q. Ross, what do you need to see from Tabener for him to get consistent games? Him playing to his potential consistently is exactly what we need.

A. Matthew Tabener’s a really hard working young man, he worked his way off the rookie list spot and has got good size at 196. He’s really improved his contested marking and body work, he’s got an enormous work-rate. His specific to work on his been his decision-making with the ball, both at Peel and with us, and he’s working hard on that, and also his reaction time. So when he doesn’t have the ball, his forward pressure for a big man has been a focus. But he had a cartilage operation throughout the year and then developed a stress fracture in a bone so he’s had a really limited pre-season and just starting to get back on legs over the last three weeks. We’re sure he’ll get there and he’s an important part of our list.

That is tough luck on the injury front. He is now well behind all the other contenders.

Another stress fracture to one of our players - unfreaking believable. I guess this year, at this point, has been better than the last couple on the injury front but we always have these little surprises!!

And yes, he has always been painfully slow in his decision making which I noted at training several times.
 

mike91

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Ross was hardly going to say to the world 'I undeservingly gave McCarthy games over Taberner'. Shame he hasn't much/any of a pre season, but I'd still back him in to have a better year than all our tall forwards.
 
Aug 20, 2014
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Ross was hardly going to say to the world 'I undeservingly gave McCarthy games over Taberner'. Shame he hasn't much/any of a pre season, but I'd still back him in to have a better year than all our tall forwards.
Are you going to be really sad if McCarthy's obvious superior talent and skill set shines through this year?
 
Feb 11, 2011
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Bump!

Since we spent about 10 pages arguing over why Tabs wasn’t getting a game, and what specifically he was asked to work on, why not hear from the Boss himself!

Quick refresher. There were those who were very upset about him not playing and believing it was due to needing to improve his ruck work. And there were those who weren’t really that phased and thought he was a bit of a derpy-derp with decision making.

People will still slam Ross for not playing him. The fact is, he’s very slow minded and that clearly needs to improve. He’s no superstar, but he’s the best we’ve got! Until Cox and Dixon overtake him. Big big year ahead for Tabs. He won’t be gifted games, but there’s plenty of opportunity if he’s good enough. Cmon son! Quick quick!

Q. Ross, what do you need to see from Tabener for him to get consistent games? Him playing to his potential consistently is exactly what we need.

A. Matthew Tabener’s a really hard working young man, he worked his way off the rookie list spot and has got good size at 196. He’s really improved his contested marking and body work, he’s got an enormous work-rate. His specific to work on his been his decision-making with the ball, both at Peel and with us, and he’s working hard on that, and also his reaction time. So when he doesn’t have the ball, his forward pressure for a big man has been a focus. But he had a cartilage operation throughout the year and then developed a stress fracture in a bone so he’s had a really limited pre-season and just starting to get back on legs over the last three weeks. We’re sure he’ll get there and he’s an important part of our list.
Biggest thing I see is that he turns blind.
 

mike91

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Are you going to be really sad if McCarthy's obvious superior talent and skill set shines through this year?
Pretty silly comment I'd of thought.

I'll be ecstatic, jumping for joy, because we need him to lift. He'll improve this season for sure, but if he's taking the number one defender, then I'm not expecting too much of him.
 

ydraw

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Are you going to be really sad if McCarthy's obvious superior talent and skill set shines through this year?

McCarthy is a different player to Taberner. McCarthy is a 3rd tall with good goal sense. He's not a key forward. Playing him as a key forward last year is part of the reason our forward line was so awful.
 
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McCarthy is a different player to Taberner. McCarthy is a 3rd tall with good goal sense. He's not a key forward. Playing him as a key forward last year is part of the reason our forward line was so awful.
I think McCarthy being out of the game for a year and unfit as hell was a bigger factor. McCarthy plays like a key forward to me way more natural and better hands than tabs easily (dont BS with the borked Tabs contested marks numbers they are false news), he just forgot how to kick straight outside 40, isnt strong enough yet and got gassed by half time. McCarthy has some mobility so people want to pigeon hole him into 3rd tall role. He is lightning off his first step on the lead, more mobile than just about any key back and hes smart. I think he could lead a forward line if he got into form and was fit enough.

If Tabs has a 35 goal season we'll be jizzing all over Fremantle Stadium. McCarthy already has one, as a rookie no less.
 

ydraw

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I think McCarthy being out of the game for a year and unfit as hell was a bigger factor. McCarthy plays like a key forward to me way more natural and better hands than tabs easily (dont BS with the borked Tabs contested marks numbers they are false news)

Don't even have to mention Tabs' contested marking numbers, you only have to look at McCarthy's. He's averaged under 0.5 contested marks per game his entire career. He's not a key forward and it was bad coaching to play him as one.
 
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I think McCarthy being out of the game for a year and unfit as hell was a bigger factor. McCarthy plays like a key forward to me way more natural and better hands than tabs easily (dont BS with the borked Tabs contested marks numbers they are false news), he just forgot how to kick straight outside 40, isnt strong enough yet and got gassed by half time. McCarthy has some mobility so people want to pigeon hole him into 3rd tall role. He is lightning off his first step on the lead, more mobile than just about any key back and hes smart. I think he could lead a forward line if he got into form and was fit enough.

If Tabs has a 35 goal season we'll be jizzing all over Fremantle Stadium. McCarthy already has one, as a rookie no less.
Don't even have to mention Tabs' contested marking numbers, you only have to look at McCarthy's. He's averaged under 0.5 contested marks per game his entire career. He's not a key forward and it was bad coaching to play him as one.
I can live with Tabs getting 30 this season and McCarthy getting 36 this year. that's 66 between them in 22 games or exactly 3 goals a game. If only freo had a player that could kick 3 goals a game on average....
 

mike91

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I think McCarthy being out of the game for a year and unfit as hell was a bigger factor. McCarthy plays like a key forward to me way more natural and better hands than tabs easily (dont BS with the borked Tabs contested marks numbers they are false news), he just forgot how to kick straight outside 40, isnt strong enough yet and got gassed by half time. McCarthy has some mobility so people want to pigeon hole him into 3rd tall role. He is lightning off his first step on the lead, more mobile than just about any key back and hes smart. I think he could lead a forward line if he got into form and was fit enough.

If Tabs has a 35 goal season we'll be jizzing all over Fremantle Stadium. McCarthy already has one, as a rookie no less.

Defies logic how you claim Tabs contested marks are bs. McCarthy in no way plays like a key forward. I'm not hating on him, but Tabs is a much better mark. Fitness was an issue, but not as big as you're making it. He rarely provided an actual aerial contest.
 

ydraw

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Tabs expectantly dominated the third defender last year.

McCarthy played as the 3rd tall at GWS behind Cameron and Patton, and still in that time averaged less than 0.5 contested marks per game.

McCarthy is just not much of a threat in the air, never has been really. He does have a lot of good qualities but his marking isn't one of them.
 
McCarthy played as the 3rd tall at GWS behind Cameron and Patton, and still in that time averaged less than 0.5 contested marks per game.

McCarthy is just not much of a threat in the air, never has been really. He does have a lot of good qualities but his marking isn't one of them.
I wasn't leaping to the defense of McCarthy.

I was saying Tabs went into the season with a reputation of being a two grab fumbling mark so opposition coaches played their key defender on someone else and Tabs played very well against the much shorter opponent. Which is what we should expect of him. The contested marking stat doesn't care how big or competent your opponent is, as long as they were in contact with you either before, during or just after the mark is taken.

It is ultimately the benefit of a genuine third tall as a marking threat, that they are manned up by a sub 190cm defender they should outreach, out-body and hopefully out-mark.
 

ydraw

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I was saying Tabs went into the season with a reputation of being a two grab fumbling mark so opposition coaches played their key defender on someone else

Yeah a few people are saying that.

It isn't true though.

But I'm sure people will continue to say it rather than give Taberner the credit he deserves.

Who did opposition coaches play their key defender on then, if not Taberner?
 

ydraw

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The contested marking stat doesn't care how big or competent your opponent is, as long as they were in contact with you either before, during or just after the mark is taken..

The same goes for every player though, not just Taberner.

All forwards occasionally benefit from mismatches.

Trying to downplay the improvement in Taberner's marking by claiming he never has an opponent or is playing on short people is petty in the extreme.

The truth is that the opposition's #1 key defender plays closest to goal because that's where marks hurt the most. Whichever forward is playing closest to goal will get that defender. Saying things alone the lines of "other clubs didn't respect Taberner's marking so deliberately played a guy 6 inches shorter on him" just makes you look like a complete numpty.
 
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I wasn't leaping to the defense of McCarthy.

I was saying Tabs went into the season with a reputation of being a two grab fumbling mark so opposition coaches played their key defender on someone else and Tabs played very well against the much shorter opponent. Which is what we should expect of him. The contested marking stat doesn't care how big or competent your opponent is, as long as they were in contact with you either before, during or just after the mark is taken.

It is ultimately the benefit of a genuine third tall as a marking threat, that they are manned up by a sub 190cm defender they should outreach, out-body and hopefully out-mark.
You keep saying this but it doesn't make it true.

Of course at times he'll have a mismatch and take an easier contested mark but that's the same for everyone. Danniher regularly took marks over the heads of midfielders when he moved up the ground.

Plenty of times Tabs took contested mark while battling with his direct oppenent and the loose defender.
 
Saying things alone the lines of "other clubs didn't respect Taberner's marking so deliberately played a guy 6 inches shorter on him" just makes you look like a complete numpty.
It doesn't matter how you think it looks when I know I'm right.
 
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I think McCarthy being out of the game for a year and unfit as hell was a bigger factor. McCarthy plays like a key forward to me way more natural and better hands than tabs easily (dont BS with the borked Tabs contested marks numbers they are false news), he just forgot how to kick straight outside 40, isnt strong enough yet and got gassed by half time. McCarthy has some mobility so people want to pigeon hole him into 3rd tall role. He is lightning off his first step on the lead, more mobile than just about any key back and hes smart. I think he could lead a forward line if he got into form and was fit enough.

If Tabs has a 35 goal season we'll be jizzing all over Fremantle Stadium. McCarthy already has one, as a rookie no less.
Mccarthy couldn't hold simple marks, balls were rebounding off his chest and jelly hands. Had one of those seasons. He's better as a 3rd forward, fast off the peasants get into good positions. Definitely has to work off someone like Tabs, Cox, Darcy. He cannot handle the first defender, unfair on Cam with his body size and build
 

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