The Matthews / Bruns incident. What was it that caused the aftermath ?

[Demonic Ascent]

Again, very different stuff. Both were head to head incidents. Long’s hit on Simmonds is what happened 25 years ago when you led with your head, it was in the contest, he was hardly trying to cripple him.

Wallis punched Green in a scuffle, not sure he “crushed his throat”, quite an effort by Green to play with a crushed throat.

Neither are examples of players targeting victims with premeditated hits when they weren’t looking, which is what Jeans routinely had his players do.

Green didn't play, he was taken to hospital.

 

[King Tut]

The Long hit on Simmonds in the 2000 GF might have been spur of the moment but it was also piss weak and gutless. He chose to bump with intent to hurt a defenceless opponent instead of just contesting the ball. I remember Sheedy post game justifying it as Long just being hard at it and explaining it away because Michael was “a beautiful person” or some such bull crap.

 

[wagstaff]

The Long hit on Simmonds in the 2000 GF might have been spur of the moment but it was also piss weak and gutless. He chose to bump with intent to hurt a defenceless opponent instead of just contesting the ball. I remember Sheedy post game justifying it as Long just being hard at it and explaining it away because Michael was “a beautiful person” or some such bull crap.

Craziest thing about that was that Long was suspended for four games but that included the round robin pre-season format so he only was suspended for one H&A match.

 

[Cyclops]

Different rules in the Granny. Long was a tough little bloke and usually didn't start things although he'd throw a jab in self defence.

My impression in 2000 was Essendon were filthy on missing out in 99 and wanted to make sure they crushed Melbourne by hook and by crook.

Didn't the Dees kick the first two? A nice spirited young side.

Lots of blokes get violent on GFs, sad that Long blotted his copybook there. A very admirable bloke otherwise.

 

[Partridge]

Des Healey? Surely you're not claiming the clash with Bluey Adams was deliberate/king hit? The game was over and Adams KOd himself in the process , it was clumsy but putting it in the same league as Greening/Odea, come on.

Yeah what I've been told about that was two players running into each other (without seeing the other coming) and knocking themselves out. It was nowhere near any kind of king hit.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Different rules in the Granny. Long was a tough little bloke and usually didn't start things although he'd throw a jab in self defence.

My impression in 2000 was Essendon were filthy on missing out in 99 and wanted to make sure they crushed Melbourne by hook and by crook.

Didn't the Dees kick the first two? A nice spirited young side.

Lots of blokes get violent on GFs, sad that Long blotted his copybook there. A very admirable bloke otherwise.

Yes Long I can forgive although it was a dog act. Wallis on the other hand....

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Yeah what I've been told about that was two players running into each other (without seeing the other coming) and knocking themselves out. It was nowhere near any kind of king hit.

Apparently Adams sprinted on to the ground just coming off the bench and was running at Healey so there was intent to tackle/bump but Healey didn't see him coming and Adams expected Healey to baulk so it resulted in a clash of heads with both out cold for an extended period. Would've have been a sickening clash.

“The crash to end all crashes”

Des Healey deserved much more than to be just being remembered for his last few seconds as a Collingwood footballer.

forever.collingwoodfc.com.au

 

[Partridge]

Not sure but there's a clip available

View attachment 2187483

He was a nasty footballer

View attachment 2187484
View attachment 2187485

Have never seen the first two, so here goes:

1. Absolutely nothing in it. Ablett is falling over and their legs get tangled. The Sydney player is also holding his ankle, not his knee.

2. Clumsy at best. Ablett tried to bump him, missed and fell over his legs. There's no remonstration from any North player around. They didn't seem too bothered by it.

3. I do remember this one. It's very clear - Ablett's leg got Frawley between his and he was diving for the ball. Pretending that was either deliberate or malicious to me is grasping a very short straw.

 

[My Tilly]

Have never seen the first two, so here goes:

1. Absolutely nothing in it. Ablett is falling over and their legs get tangled. The Sydney player is also holding his ankle, not his knee.

2. Clumsy at best. Ablett tried to bump him, missed and fell over his legs. There's no remonstration from any North around. They didn't seem too bothered by it.

3. I do remember this one. It's very clear - Ablett's leg got Frawley between his and he was diving for the ball. Pretending that was either deliberate or malicious to me is grasping a very short straw.

Well that's just a sample of many.

Ablett was a tough, courageous footballer but he was also a dirty and malicious one.
Loved to use elbows.

He may not have been as thuggish as Matthews but certainly in the same category. If Ablett had an opportunity to hurt an opponent when given the opportunity . . . he did so without hesitation.
He put a lot of blokes in hospital throughout his career.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The Long hit on Simmonds in the 2000 GF might have been spur of the moment but it was also piss weak and gutless. He chose to bump with intent to hurt a defenceless opponent instead of just contesting the ball. I remember Sheedy post game justifying it as Long just being hard at it and explaining it away because Michael was “a beautiful person” or some such bull crap.

It’s the way players attacked contests back then and being a grand final the speed and intensity was up 10x

It was super reckless but I genuinely don’t think he was going in to injure him, he came from off the contest and just hit it at a million miles an hour and bugger the outcome. You can’t do that in 2024.

These days he would get ten weeks because the game has changed and it’s all about duty of care toward your opponent. Back then your biggest duty of care was your own safety.

Craziest thing about that was that Long was suspended for four games but that included the round robin pre-season format so he only was suspended for one H&A match.

It’s just reflective of it being a different game. It was 25 years ago and the rules and interpretations were a lot different. As I said, these days he’d get ten weeks because things have changed.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Well that's just a sample of many.

Ablett was a tough, courageous footballer but he was also a dirty and malicious one.
Loved to use elbows.

He may not have been as thuggish as Matthews but certainly in the same category. If Ablett had an opportunity to hurt an opponent when given the opportunity . . . he did so without hesitation.
He put a lot of blokes in hospital throughout his career.

These arguments happen because people try to label players as “tough” or “cowardly” in singularity.

It doesn’t work like that with many players.

The subject of this thread in the perfect example.

Of course Matthews was capable of very tough and courageous play and demonstrated that many many times.

He also demonstrated complete cowardice and gutless thuggery many times, attacking defenceless and unaware opponents.

Just the way it is.

 

[Cyclops]

These arguments happen because people try to label players as “tough” or “cowardly” in singularity.

It doesn’t work like that with many players.

The subject of this thread in the perfect example.

Of course Matthews was capable of very tough and courageous play and demonstrated that many many times.

He also demonstrated complete cowardice and gutless thuggery many times, attacking defenceless and unaware opponents.

Just the way it is

Yep, agree very much.

Ablett was such an enigma, could take a licking and not hit back, or respond, or get on the front foot, or even lash out randomly.

Us Pies have howled about TD but his hits on Brown and Starcs in the 1990 GF were out of character. He was hard but fair, but that game was slipping, and his team mates were drooping. I think he felt he had to do something and when Brown barrelled into that brawl (started by Kelly and Banks bullying Sporn) he quietly clocked him.

The hit on Starcs was just desperation, our number 27 was tearing it up, so "in for a penny* he gave him a one-two on the chin.

TD was no thug, and it'd be silly to judge him on that day alone. Compared to our rogues gallery of thugs he was an angel. We had Kelly (symptomatic carrier of white line fever, or as it is also known, a sniper and a bully) Millane who thought punching your opponent was normal conduct , Banksy who took offence if you breathed near him etc etc.

Speaking of Long, he waded into that brawl and pulled blokes apart. I think Shaw had a dip but Long was actually a boxer and put his mittss up and everyone quieted down.

Kickett was very upset, flew in (missed everything- in Bay 38 we thought he clocked Brown) and squared up to Morwood who was a cool head.

It was interesting to see how everyone reacted differently, there was plenty of demonstration but it wasn't like 1985 (I was only a few rows back from that one, scored some tickets and took a Hawk mate). That's was about 8 or 10 massive smacks, some very nasty knees (Brereton and others) blokes scrabbling on the deck, and the umps broke it up quick smart. 1990 dragged on because Brown was down and it was quarter time.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It’s the way players attacked contests back then and being a grand final the speed and intensity was up 10x

It was super reckless but I genuinely don’t think he was going in to injure him, he came from off the contest and just hit it at a million miles an hour and bugger the outcome. You can’t do that in 2024.

These days he would get ten weeks because the game has changed and it’s all about duty of care toward your opponent. Back then your biggest duty of care was your own safety.



It’s just reflective of it being a different game. It was 25 years ago and the rules and interpretations were a lot different. As I said, these days he’d get ten weeks because things have changed.

It was still a dog act back then, Simmonds had his head over the ball and Long came in with intent to hurt. He was just lucky he didn't break Simmonds neck. Yes it was a different game and yes players still tried to injure/hurt their opponent, especially in a GF, but I was filthy about it when it happened. I didn't just think "oh yeah it's a GF, all good".

Similar to the comments about TD above, I don't think that hit is emblematic of Longs career as a whole, it was one incident in a long career. If it was Byron Pickett, Dipper or someone like that it would be a different story.

 

[Freomaniac]

I don't think Jeans was a thug coach but he did have some thug players. In the 60s it was a tactical requirement, in the 70s Richmobd and Carlton were very durty, North less so. By the 80s Essendon was bashing Hawthorn up in Grabd Finals.

Matthews was a thug who hit blokes in order to win games. Not a madman, maybe sociopath describes it? I'm not a doctor. He was seen as dirty in the early 70s, in thd 8ps he was a thug dinosaur.

Mark Jackson was a mug liar, could play a bit but hit blokes for fun.

Bruns was tough, and maybe a bit of a thug but Matthews hit him from behind, well off the ball, a cowardly calculated act. There was nothing to prompt it, except the assumption it would not be seen.

Maybe memories of O'Dea prompted police action. Geelong have some "top end of town" support, MPs and big land owners. Maybe some Geelong powerbrokers demanded retribution for Matthews. He was a known basher who was rarely caught.

Just a side note, I never saw Worsfold do anything brave. I saw him hit from behind, and choke blokes who were pinned. Off field a fine coach and a nice person i am told but on field he seemed a cowardly thug.

Jacko could play no doubt.

His open mike episode was interesting.

 

[Cyclops]

Jacko could play no doubt.

His open mike episode was interesting.

He could mark, kick and lead...teamwork he was less good at. Massive ego, no club could win a flag with him on the field.

Just noticed I said liar, meant lair.

 

[ExileOnArdenStreet]

From Cowboy Neale bashing Peter Hudson (which Jeans openly said Neale had told him about on the Thursday before the game) to his Hawks teams in the 80s, severe violence followed Jeans. I get it was a different time but some played differently to others. Jeans indulged thugs and often outright encouraged them.

Dipper’s hit on Allan Stoneham in 1983 was horrible stuff.



Julie Stoneham says it would be years before she realised it, but her husband’s behaviour began to change in the aftermath of the DiPierdomenico hit.

Tests have since revealed damage to his frontal lobe and cerebellum at the base of the brain.

“I think it is the concussions (causing it) because I’m only a year younger than Allan and I certainly don’t have the same issues that he has,” she says.

“Of course, when you get older some of those things do happen, but at 40 when he first started to show some signs that things probably weren’t quite right, well that’s very young.

“One of the big differences in Allan is the really peculiar gait that he has when he walks, which he never used to have, and they do think it has got something to do with the brain and the messages that his brain is trying to send out.”

“This has been going on for quite some time. He gets very tired, he doesn’t have the same stamina that he used to have and he has changed quite a bit.

“His interaction with people is different and his memory is appalling. It’s shocking. He forgets everything. We are at the point now where I have to write everything down for him.

“He’ll walk up the street and buys half a dozen things but it won’t be anything that I actually asked him to get.

“We went to the market one day and got fish for dinner and when we got home he said to me, ‘what will we have for dinner?’, and I said, ‘we’re having the fish that we bought at the market’. Two hours later he said to me, ‘what will we have for dinner tonight?’, and I said, ‘the fish we got from the market’. A bit later I said, ‘I’m going to cook dinner now and he said, ‘oh, what are we going to have?’

“I mean his memory is just shot to pieces.”

He debuted for the Bulldogs in the VFL at age 16, suffering multiple concussions across a 200-game career, including the incident with DiPierdomenico where his nose was spread across his face and his eyesight was permanently affected. He played the following week.

“Everyone pays a price, some more than others,” Stoneham said.

“I think it (the DiPierdomenico hit) was the turning point in my life.

“I remember jumping on the tram on the way to work a few days later to see a doctor to find out whether I had lost any sight, and from there things just slowly got worse.”

Geez that's tragic .

 

[ExileOnArdenStreet]

The 2nd hit on this tape against Wrighty was at Vic Park. A few minutes before Wright had cleaned up a young Eagle. Worsfold clearly said to himself I have to do a pay back. Almost the most impressive thing was it took him only a couple of minutes to "find" a situation where he could deal out the punishment. Tough tough player

Equally tough was the one of Archer running back with the flight of the ball, he would of known Woosha was coming.

 

[GWT6]

It’s the way players attacked contests back then and being a grand final the speed and intensity was up 10x

It was super reckless but I genuinely don’t think he was going in to injure him, he came from off the contest and just hit it at a million miles an hour and bugger the outcome. You can’t do that in 2024.

These days he would get ten weeks because the game has changed and it’s all about duty of care toward your opponent. Back then your biggest duty of care was your own safety.



It’s just reflective of it being a different game. It was 25 years ago and the rules and interpretations were a lot different. As I said, these days he’d get ten weeks because things have changed.

What a load of crap. Essendon went out to hurt Melbourne's young players. Cowards attacking kids.

Hopefully Karma catches up with one of Long's or Wallis's kids.

 

[GWT6]

Because he was. Tried to portray himself as a moral, custodian of the game but coached two teams of dogs, thugs and snipers. It’s not a coincidence.

Allan Jeans is often described by the circle jerk who follows him as "an old-school cop." Everyone understands what that means.
Encouraged violence, especially against those not in a position to defend themselves.

 

[boncer34]

Green didn't play, he was taken to hospital.

You sure? This was after Wallis punched him.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What a load of crap. Essendon went out to hurt Melbourne's young players. Cowards attacking kids.

Hopefully Karma catches up with one of Long's or Wallis's kids.

They attacked every team. They were super physical.

But in this thread, discussing hits of the nature of Matthews or O’Dea? No, there was none of that.

As for Melbourne’s kids, I guess they should’ve asked for birth certificates pre-game.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

You sure? This was after Wallis punched him.

Brad Green also suffered a serious injury, a blow to the neck during the first quarter causing him to miss the rest of the match. At quarter time he had to seek medical help as the swelling in his throat restricted his breathing, ending with him on oxygen in the rooms and later in hospital.

Grand Final 2000 | Demonwiki

Demonwiki.org is the ultimate resource for Melbourne Demons fans. Explore team history, player profiles, match results, and more. Stay updated with the latest news on the Demons.

demonwiki.org

Supermercado will need to provide the citations

 

[boncer34]

Grand Final 2000 | Demonwiki

Demonwiki.org is the ultimate resource for Melbourne Demons fans. Explore team history, player profiles, match results, and more. Stay updated with the latest news on the Demons.

demonwiki.org

Supermercado will need to provide the citations

Seems like it got worse the longer the quarter went I guess.

 

[Cyclops]

Leigh has admitted there is a lot of things he is ashamed of when he played.

Sorry I missed this, it's a good point.

Matthews is a pretty honest person. He has the respect of a wide range of people as a coach.

He was part of a shake up at Collingwood and was effective because he gave and took criticism unflinchingly. We revere him, almost as much as Brisbane does.

He was able to command respect from a wide range of characters: Sheedy and Malthouse had this quality too, there weren't too many players they couldn't get something out of.

Good leaders aren't always nice people, and as a player he was known for cruelty and selfishness: Brereton tells a story about Matthews warning him to stay out of his way and there was nothing nice about it.

 

[Jane Doe]

Sorry I missed this, it's a good point.

Matthews is a pretty honest person. He has the respect of a wide range of people as a coach.

He was part of a shake up at Collingwood and was effective because he gave and took criticism unflinchingly. We revere him, almost as much as Brisbane does.

He was able to command respect from a wide range of characters: Sheedy and Malthouse had this quality too, there weren't too many players they couldn't get something out of.

Good leaders aren't always nice people, and as a player he was known for cruelty and selfishness: Brereton tells a story about Matthews warning him to stay out of his way and there was nothing nice about it.

His book is a good read and he freely admits there is a lot of things he did on field that he is ashamed of