The McGovern conundrum

What comes to mind when someone says ‘McGovern’

  • Up against JSoS for 3rd tall fwd. I prefer the hardworking JSoS.

    Votes: 35 22.4%
  • Up against JSoS for 3rd tall fwd. I prefer McGovern as he has the 3xtra gear when fit.

    Votes: 4 2.6%
  • Can play with JSoS, CC and Harry. I don’t believe that is too tall, and to hell with def tackling.

    Votes: 10 6.4%
  • I see McGovern as a third tall defender. Ahead of Plowman, Kemp and Marchbank.

    Votes: 19 12.2%
  • I don’t see McGovern as having the hardness, determination and concentration of a defender.

    Votes: 6 3.8%
  • I rate Mcgoverns speed and kicking and just want him in the 22.

    Votes: 33 21.2%
  • I see McGovern’s lack of commitment and feel he should prove himself fwd or back in the VFL.

    Votes: 49 31.4%
  • How dare you insinuate anything negative about our player (provided for the believers/derailers)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    156

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JustaBattler

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Having our rucks float back instead of forward makes a lot of sense helps with the loss of Liam keeps our forward line open up
Lots of teams do this - using ruckman to be an extra 'high' CHB plugging a hole. The trick is that the ruckman has to know when to do this and when to go forward as an extra - needs to be mobile enough to keep running - and TDK has that potential.
 

katmanblue

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Lots of teams do this - using ruckman to be an extra 'high' CHB plugging a hole. The trick is that the ruckman has to know when to do this and when to go forward as an extra - needs to be mobile enough to keep running - and TDK has that potential.
Does he have the smarts?
 

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JustaBattler

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He's never been described as a smart footballer to my knowledge. So, your theory checks out.

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In a better drilled ( this is what I think coaching really is) side - the genuine footballers play better because those gifted less 'football brain' do more right things at the right times than not - due to having been drilled/coached - having all teammates doing the right predictable things - allows better footballers to do their stuff better
 

thylacine60

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lance whitnall with a fit body and strong work ethic - that's who mitch might wanna use as a role model - yeah, yeah, but this and but that - there is nothing stopping him from being that player if he wants it.........cue "except smart arse response here"..............
 

BlueBlood15

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Until Mitch demands selection through his output at either end of the ground, he’s going to need to be adaptable as to where he plays. I’d look to split his training between back and forward. We might need him at either end if injuries hit.

I’ve got him behind JSOS for the third tall forward and we haven’t seen enough of him as a defender to know if he can play an accountable KPD role or more of a third tall intercepter. Assuming most of our 190cm plus types are fit for round 1, he’s probably a better chance of slotting into the backline than forward line given the Jones departure (even if that is as an intercept to support Young/O Mac).

Regardless, he needs to return in good shape and have a strong, injury free pre season.
 

forever blue 1

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Nothing 'theoretical' about it - Mitch is a better-contested mark, higher leap, better kick at goal ( by a long way) and much much faster. His only problem in '21 was pulling a bad hammy - he looked fit and played fit prior to that injury.

I see SOJ as the best 'utility' on our books - his key attributes are effort at the contest ( midfield attribute) and footy 'smarts' - no reason why they both cant play - Harry | Honey | Martin | SOJ | Charlie | McGovern - with Cuningham/Durdin/Owies on bench rotation.

Durdin Harry Honey
Martin Charlie McGovern
SOJ rotation

Not concerned about forward line at all for next year - Cuningham | Owies | Philp and maybe Kemp up the sleeve as well.

Biggest challenge is to get defensive game plan right between the arcs and in defensive 50. Pittonet and TDK can learn to drop back into slot as defensive rucks will help with height back there.

Stop playing Fisher/Dow types who cant tackle fixes most of those problems anyway - easiest fix in the book - especially with willing players like Philp Caroll Cuningham Kemp Stocker - pushing for a go and with Hewett/Cerra adding some credibility to midfield.

Dont know what all the fuss is about re McGovern - other players way way way behind him.
I can’t argue with what you’ve put forth. I can only say, you know what you get with Jack, with the gov it’s a complete lottery. I know who I’d go for but hey if gov actually puts in consistency in his game then that’s an easy conundrum.
 

gbatman

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Just a few thoughts.

You put Liam Jones, Mitch McGovern and Lachie Plowman at full forward or the forward pocket with time to settle in. McGovern will be the superior player hands down. Why? He's a better footballer in terms of his skill set, ability to attack and athleticism. In general he is a better footballer. Thought I would not compare him to Jones who is a different type of player, he's a lot taller, but I am sure you can see what I am getting at.

Jones was a rubbish forward who at the time I was saying should be tried back because of his athletic attributes and height etc. They were quite special, Jones was very quick and had a good leap. McGovern is a serviceable forward who I am suggesting should be played as a third tall defender and later a utility defender because of his skillsets and athletic attributes. McGovern is very quick with a great leap, strength and all round football skills. Same same in my view.

Compare McGovern to our current third tall defender, Plowman. In terms of football ability and athletic qualities McGovern is a better player in every aspect. Taller, quicker, better mark, better agility, bigger, stronger, plays taller, has the athletic qualities to play better smaller as well. The difference is one has been played in defence and has training and experience there and the other hasn't, he has been played forward.

Plowman is a very experienced defender and has been played in the back pocket consistently and has done an adequate job but is not a top level third tall defender and never will be. McGovern was thrown into defence once and appeared to do quite a good job on the back of very little defensive experience and training. Put the same training and experience into McGovern that has gone into Plowman and you have a very very good defender.


Here is how I see things evolving...

Young, maybe McDonald but probably Young will play CHB and Weitering full back. McGovern will start in the back pocket as a third tall defender and it will work out pretty well. Plowman will be competing with the medium/small defenders for a spot and will either make it or not. Marchbank will become fit and available for selection at some stage and that will bring about the question of how we fit him into the team as he is an exceptionally good player. That will lead us to playing McGovern as a smaller defender as he has the speed to match even the quicker small/medium sized forwards of the league and this would allow him to become that lose interceptor as well.

At some stage I see us playing McGovern as a tallish player who plays on small/medium forwards, Marchbank as that genuine third tall and Young and Weitering as big strong marking key position players. McGovern will probably start out as a third tall defender and will develop as that versatile tallish/medium sized defender who can play on tall and small players which will be hugely valuable for us. I can see this as being a crucial part of our defence.

Looking back through the history of premiership winning backlines, they tend to be taller rather than shorter, in recent times most of them have three players over 193cm and another one or two around the high 180's mark so we wouldn't be unusually tall with Weitering (195), Young (201), Marchbank (193) and McGovern (191). Not with McGovern playing more like a 188cm player a lot of the time which his athletic profile says he should be able to do.

Compare this to Melbourne's premiership side. May (193), Petty (197), Lever (195) over 193cm, supported by Rivers (188), Hibbert (186) etc. It's fair to say this was a terrific defensive group and they were not unusually tall for a premiership backline.

How I see McGovern fitting into this is because athletically he has the ability to play 195cm to 185cm. IMO with his athletic capabilities he should have that range. He's strong, marks well at the highest point and has a good leap so he can play taller than he is. He's very quick, strong and has good agility so has the potential to play smaller than what he is. This gives us the ability to create a taller backline more in line with the premiership teams over the last 10 years and to get Marchbank into that team who is the ideal third tall and a very high quality player in that role. McGovern's ability to play on smaller players will come down to education, not ability. The basics of that will be that he's bigger and stronger than them and just as quick, don't let them goal side, use your body, match them with your speed, be physical. It's basic stuff, it's how Plowman gets away playing on them some times, it's not hard to learn.

I think with a bit of time to develop experience and some good coaching we will have a really good defender and a really important defender who allows us to play a tall backline that is fast, strong and attacking but also hard to score against. A premiership sized backline.

I can see our backline being something like this at some stage. Tall, skilled, quick with players who can defend and attack.

B: McGovern Weitering Marchbank
HB: Saad Young Williams
IC: Docherty
Reserves: Plowman, Newman, Williamson, McDonald, Parks, Boyd.

Weitering - AA quality key position defender. Enough said.

Young - Just out of the development stage at 22, good size, outstanding mark. IMO he has something to work with.

McGovern - Can play tall or small, one of the quickest players in the game, strong with a good leap and footy skills. Should be able to play as a 185cm player or a 195cm player.

Marchbank - Proven before he can play the third tall role at a very high level. He's quick, tall, reads the play and a good mark. We have seen him play like Alex Rance and as a winger so he has range.

Williams - Top quality small defender, very high quality player we haven't seen the best of yet, midfielder attributes, he will be very good for us.

Saad - elite attacking half back. Enough said.

Docherty - Former AA player and general all round quality player with leadership qualities. He will be back.

Potential to be a very very good backline. Backline has needed a rebuild for a while. Too slow, too small, no genuine third tall. This is the rebuild it needs and IMO I would be very excited to see what that backline could do.

The other side of the coin is with McGovern as a defender, there is always the option to throw him forward.
 
Last edited:

Arr0w

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If he has only played ONE game in defence Arrow how can you say he will NEVER be a defender

It works both ways..
Really not sure where all this talk of Gov playing as a defender has come from, a Jones replacement? Not a hope in hell.

I don't think he has the disciplined mindset and work ethic to play as a defender and more importantly I prefer that he plays as that 3rd tall option behind Harry and Charlie, where he would be able to exploit 3rd tall defenders

We have a number of players that can play as a 3rd tall defender, Plowman, Parks, Marchbank (if he can stay on the park), Doc and now it looks like we will pick up Arkuei as an NGA

IMHO, our priority should be another 1 or 2 spine players
 

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Blue since 72

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Must admit I'd be surprised if Mitch nails down a key defensive spot and it's got nothing to do with his ability or height or lack of games as a defender.

To date there has been no hint of longevity in his body and playing back will be more crash and bash than he's experienced so far so while Vossy may give him a go, will he actually stay on the park for any meaningful time.
 

BigFrizz36

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Really not sure where all this talk of Gov playing as a defender has come from, a Jones replacement? Not a hope in hell.

I don't think he has the disciplined mindset and work ethic to play as a defender and more importantly I prefer that he plays as that 3rd tall option behind Harry and Charlie, where he would be able to exploit 3rd tall defenders

We have a number of players that can play as a 3rd tall defender, Plowman, Parks, Marchbank (if he can stay on the park), Doc and now it looks like we will pick up Arkuei as an NGA

IMHO, our priority should be another 1 or 2 spine players
Voss quoted on afl.com.au saying that he sees Young and McGovern as potential replacements for Jones.

Might be something that they might trial pre season with Young as a lockdown and Mitch as an interceptor?
 

Arr0w

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Voss quoted on afl.com.au saying that he sees Young and McGovern as potential replacements for Jones.

Might be something that they might trial pre season with Young as a lockdown and Mitch as an interceptor?
They might try Gov as the 3rd tall interceptor during the preseason and possibly in season, but I still see him as a forward not a defender, certainly not a KPD
 

footyfan1978

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Must admit I'd be surprised if Mitch nails down a key defensive spot and it's got nothing to do with his ability or height or lack of games as a defender.

To date there has been no hint of longevity in his body and playing back will be more crash and bash than he's experienced so far so while Vossy may give him a go, will he actually stay on the park for any meaningful time.
Yes, but he got to be tried down there as an interceptor which is less crash and bash than genuine key defender. It might not work but worth trying as so far he not nailed any spot. Whilst he still on list got to find out what he can do if tried down there.
 

Blue since 72

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Yes, but he got to be tried down there as an interceptor which is less crash and bash than genuine key defender. It might not work but worth trying as so far he not nailed any spot. Whilst he still on list got to find out what he can do if tried down there.
Yep no problem with giving it a go. Outside of Young I'd say Weiters would move to full back and the replacement take centre half but I don't think the position would necessarily call for a pure interceptor, moreso the ability to both intercept and/or play 1 on 1 as required.

This was the crash and bash bit I was referring to as he wont always have the luxury of sagging off his opponents.
 

Aphrodite

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They might try Gov as the 3rd tall interceptor during the preseason and possibly in season, but I still see him as a forward not a defender, certainly not a KPD



"Lewis [Young] coming in is one of the names straight away.

We’re certainly happy to explore Mitch McGovern going back so I’ve had those conversations with him already and he’s been super keen to take on a challenge like that.
 

thylacine60

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Just a few thoughts.

You put Liam Jones, Mitch McGovern and Lachie Plowman at full forward or the forward pocket with time to settle in. McGovern will be the superior player hands down. Why? He's a better footballer in terms of his skill set, ability to attack and athleticism. In general he is a better footballer. Thought I would not compare him to Jones who is a different type of player, he's a lot taller, but I am sure you can see what I am getting at.

Jones was a rubbish forward who at the time I was saying should be tried back because of his athletic attributes and height etc. They were quite special, Jones was very quick and had a good leap. McGovern is a serviceable forward who I am suggesting should be played as a third tall defender and later a utility defender because of his skillsets and athletic attributes. McGovern is very quick with a great leap, strength and all round football skills. Same same in my view.

Compare McGovern to our current third tall defender, Plowman. In terms of football ability and athletic qualities McGovern is a better player in every aspect. Taller, quicker, better mark, better agility, bigger, stronger, plays taller, has the athletic qualities to play better smaller as well. The difference is one has been played in defence and has training and experience there and the other hasn't, he has been played forward.

Plowman is a very experienced defender and has been played in the back pocket consistently and has done an adequate job but is not a top level third tall defender and never will be. McGovern was thrown into defence once and appeared to do quite a good job on the back of very little defensive experience and training. Put the same training and experience into McGovern that has gone into Plowman and you have a very very good defender.


Here is how I see things evolving...

Young, maybe McDonald but probably Young will play CHB and Weitering full back. McGovern will start in the back pocket as a third tall defender and it will work out pretty well. Plowman will be competing with the medium/small defenders for a spot and will either make it or not. Marchbank will become fit and available for selection at some stage and that will bring about the question of how we fit him into the team as he is an exceptionally good player. That will lead us to playing McGovern as a smaller defender as he has the speed to match even the quicker small/medium sized forwards of the league and this would allow him to become that lose interceptor as well.

At some stage I see us playing McGovern as a tallish player who plays on small/medium forwards, Marchbank as that genuine third tall and Young and Weitering as big strong marking key position players. McGovern will probably start out as a third tall defender and will develop as that versatile tallish/medium sized defender who can play on tall and small players which will be hugely valuable for us. I can see this as being a crucial part of our defence.

Looking back through the history of premiership winning backlines, they tend to be taller rather than shorter, in recent times most of them have three players over 193cm and another one or two around the high 180's mark so we wouldn't be unusually tall with Weitering (195), Young (201), Marchbank (193) and McGovern (191). Not with McGovern playing more like a 188cm player a lot of the time which his athletic profile says he should be able to do.

Compare this to Melbourne's premiership side. May (193), Petty (197), Lever (195) over 193cm, supported by Rivers (188), Hibbert (186) etc. It's fair to say this was a terrific defensive group and they were not unusually tall for a premiership backline.

How I see McGovern fitting into this is because athletically he has the ability to play 195cm to 185cm. IMO with his athletic capabilities he should have that range. He's strong, marks well at the highest point and has a good leap so he can play taller than he is. He's very quick, strong and has good agility so has the potential to play smaller than what he is. This gives us the ability to create a taller backline more in line with the premiership teams over the last 10 years and to get Marchbank into that team who is the ideal third tall and a very high quality player in that role. McGovern's ability to play on smaller players will come down to education, not ability. The basics of that will be that he's bigger and stronger than them and just as quick, don't let them goal side, use your body, match them with your speed, be physical. It's basic stuff, it's how Plowman gets away playing on them some times, it's not hard to learn.

I think with a bit of time to develop experience and some good coaching we will have a really good defender and a really important defender who allows us to play a tall backline that is fast, strong and attacking but also hard to score against. A premiership sized backline.

I can see our backline being something like this at some stage. Tall, skilled, quick with players who can defend and attack.

B: McGovern Weitering Marchbank
HB: Saad Young Williams
IC: Docherty
Reserves: Plowman, Newman, Williamson, McDonald, Parks, Boyd.

Weitering - AA quality key position defender. Enough said.

Young - Just out of the development stage at 22, good size, outstanding mark. IMO he has something to work with.

McGovern - Can play tall or small, one of the quickest players in the game, strong with a good leap and footy skills. Should be able to play as a 185cm player or a 195cm player.

Marchbank - Proven before he can play the third tall role at a very high level. He's quick, tall, reads the play and a good mark. We have seen him play like Alex Rance and as a winger so he has range.

Williams - Top quality small defender, very high quality player we haven't seen the best of yet, midfielder attributes, he will be very good for us.

Saad - elite attacking half back. Enough said.

Docherty - Former AA player and general all round quality player with leadership qualities. He will be back.

Potential to be a very very good backline. Backline has needed a rebuild for a while. Too slow, too small, no genuine third tall. This is the rebuild it needs and IMO I would be very excited to see what that backline could do.

The other side of the coin is with McGovern as a defender, there is always the option to throw him forward.
 

BigFrizz36

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They might try Gov as the 3rd tall interceptor during the preseason and possibly in season, but I still see him as a forward not a defender, certainly not a KPD
I think many on here have fallen into "well if Jeremy can do it, then Mitch must be able to" trap.

Not sure that JSOS doesn't have Mitch covered for that third tall spot up forward so if he is to play he might need to find another spot.
 

thylacine60

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I think many on here have fallen into "well if Jeremy can do it, then Mitch must be able to" trap.

Not sure that JSOS doesn't have Mitch covered for that third tall spot up forward so if he is to play he might need to find another spot.
don't reckon many have even thought about it - it's nothing more than the usual carlton thinking of "play him down back till something happens"...........
 

BlueTang

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I am personally okay with four talls, 3 of them are very quick, Jack has smarts and heart. If all 4 are fit and firing it would be hard to defend.
I hope McG, Setters, Williams and Cerra all have have great years. We moved on a lot of veterans in the last 2 years, 2022 should be a very different look team
 

Arr0w

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I think many on here have fallen into "well if Jeremy can do it, then Mitch must be able to" trap.

Not sure that JSOS doesn't have Mitch covered for that third tall spot up forward so if he is to play he might need to find another spot.
I guess we need to take rotations into consideration with KPFs and 3rd tall forwards, then a possibility tha JSOS might do some ruck work at times rather than playing both TDK and Pitto
 

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