Certified Legendary Thread The Medical Sub blunder - What the hell?

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Kane McGoodwin

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Did Shuttleworth come up with this fiction that being a sub is harder than actually playing the game, both mentally and physically?

Seems like a few have rolled out that line now
Some people just need to learn to just shut up giving BS explanations... & digging a bigger whole.

No awareness... ironic for a media manager.
 

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Geoffa32

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Not in so many words but it is very much what Nicks implied. We couldn’t have a fully fit Mackay because he found it physically and mentally draining. So Dmac is effectively limiting his exposure to the role. I think it’s total bullshit, but it’s Nicks who opened the barn door on that.
That's unfortunate....

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ltdamn

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If you asked the average supporter on these topics they wouldnt even know what you were on about. Crouch was always going to be massively overvalued on this board as is just about every player we have had go for trade. Crouch screwed this more than anything with his drugs. Everyone lost their sh*t at this, yet now it seems we have a decent replacement for that pick. The camp was a bad thing. Bad decision by the club. Every single person on this board would have made wrong choices in their life or workplace. And every single other club has plenty of things their supporters claim as bad decisions too. There have been plenty of mistakes, and plenty of good decisions too which seem to be forgotten about. Media always focus on the negative and the dramatic because drama is addictive.

Just feels like the Australian way these days to point the finger, blame, throw hate, and from hindsight from our armchairs with half the facts in place voice our opinions on stuff we dont even know everything about. We are apparently all armchair selectors, coaches, recruitment agents, fitness gurus but we couldnt get a job for the under18s SANFL side if we applied 30 times. I wonder why...

A 31 page flame fest where people in here actually think they know when Lynch should be strapping up and getting his injection, when Hamil should be subbed (need I remind like 400 people who immedately assumed he had done his knee?) Meanwhile the opposite team took twice as long to get their sub on the ground.
The average Swans supporter maybe. Half of Adelaide thought we were getting pick 2 - or matching - for Crouch. There's one paper in the town, the story and Kelly's comments were covered in detail, and you can't pretend that the 'average supporter' in this day and age didn't realise they completely f’ed that one up. You don't need BigFooty to be able to recall the last few years worth of cock-ups from the AFC. You just have to watch the news.

Just for the record some of us were very strongly on record that we wouldn't be getting a band 1 for Crouch. Despite the club not even seeing it.

So yeah lets not pretend these fu**ups are complicated things that us mere fans couldn't understand.
That, this, +1, 👆 etc. No rocket surgery involved in that one.
 

ABAB

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Did Shuttleworth come up with this fiction that being a sub is harder than actually playing the game, both mentally and physically?

Seems like a few have rolled out that line now
Well, Nicks mentioned this after they consulted with MacKay (who is very professional in his preparation) and Murray and why they changed the sub role to be "spectator" strategy starting last week with Lynch and there are also "data" to suggest this.
I don't recall Grigg or Lyons bitching about being the sub a bunch of times
Super sub is totally different, the player know they will play.
 

Sprungy

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Nostradamus is in our match committee apparently. The club has never come across as gamblers and epecially dumb gamblers. It's almost as though their need for experience was so strong they were willing to play one short if a player did an injury in the pregame. Playing an injured Lynch all game is playing one short.

Tbh I am glad this has come to a head as the club will now have pressure on it to not play injured seniors again. At least in the sub role. Or will it? It will also create greater discussion about why we would pick an injured player over a fit one, why we undervalue our list and why we haven't done anything about it through changes in the recruiting and list management areas if they don't value the list.

They have also made Lynch look like a complete idiot. Is he as much to blame as the club for putting himself ahead of the result? Is it "team-first" putting your hand up when you know you can't perform? I feel both he and the club got what they deserved. My advice to Nick's is that humility is better than spin. Everyone makes mistakes but a fool never admits they make any.

I have nothing personal against Lynch and I'm sure he's a great fella but this incident is ridiculous. It needs to be called out otherwise the club will never do better. The fact that they aren't taking ownership has now pissed me off more than the idiotic act itself. First lesson of PR is don't treat the public like fools. They can try and justify it all they like but they themself said Lynch was injured last week. Who on the board is directing our communication strategy as this has been a problem for some time and they find it impossible to admit mistakes.

I think that their poor attitude towards the value of the sub and how it can be maximised competitively on GameDay has been a fail from the club. In saying that I think the AFL should have increased the interchange to 5 instead of a medical sub. I expect that change will occur at the end of the year.

I also feel that we need to look at what the NFL does and force all clubs to disclose injuries to the media. If people are putting their hard earned on a match they deserve all the information available. Lastly games are way too long and are increasing injuries. They need to cut them from 125-135min on average to around 110-115min imo. Also I think the rotation reduction is fatiguing players too much and leading to more injuries. They may also need to look at less games in a season to increase players career lengths. The public wants to see the best players playing and not a second string competition.
 

Sprungy

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Couldn't agree more about Nicks's spin on this . How could he categorically say it didn't cost us the win. Lynch was totally ineffective with his injured toe. A Jones type could have been very dangerous with fresh legs against tiring players.Couldn't agree more about Nicks's spin on this . How could he categorically say it didn't cost us the win. Lynch was totally ineffective with his injured toe. A Jones type could have been very dangerous with fresh legs against tiring playe


The damage to
 

Pilchard_Adams

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The average Swans supporter maybe. Half of Adelaide thought we were getting pick 2 - or matching - for Crouch. There's one paper in the town, the story and Kelly's comments were covered in detail, and you can't pretend that the 'average supporter' in this day and age didn't realise they completely f’ed that one up. You don't need BigFooty to be able to recall the last few years worth of cock-ups from the AFC. You just have to watch the news.
I think Crouch was worth somewhere around pick 14-16 given his injury record. Then he did the drugs. Adelaide didnt mess that up, he did. I dont see how we stuffed up much else, he wasnt in demand. What would you have specifically done different?
 

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Pilchard_Adams

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Just on this, I don’t think it’s detrimental for any inexperienced kid to be a Sub for one round. They get to experience larger crowds, see how quick the game is in real time, and they might also experience some game time. These aspects all might help to give them some motivation to train harder to become AFL regulars.

You can then rotate the Sub to give all kids an experience at it for one round, so they can still play out an entire footy season minus just one Sub round. Won’t be much of a loss at all.
True, didnt think of that. I guess it would come down to match fitness? Would they benefit more from playing out a game in the SANFL or from the experience of AFL for less than a whole game
 

Pilchard_Adams

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You have mentioned this twice now

What does it matter how long Burgoyne took to get off the ground? Once he did their sub was ready

Hamill was off with what did look like a knee injury. Thats the moment Lynch should have been getting ready and doing what he needed to do to be ready - not waiting for someone to say ' yeah hamills off for the day ''
Burgoyne is relevant as it took twice as long to get his sub on the ground as us. Perfect example that a player needs to be assessed first.

It never looked like a knee injury to me, he never even grabbed his knee. Hamil would have instantly said it was his ankle. I dont think giving someone injections just in case is good medical practice. It was around a minute before 3 quarter time so I dont mind how long it took.
 

relapse

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I’m not even sure how we “tried to be smart” by picking an out-of-sorts Lynch? Were we attempting at bluffing the opposition by playing an injured sub, so they would get all confused...?!
The club didn't want a player missing out on a run in the SANFL so they ran the gauntlet by naming an injured player as the sub on the belief that they more than likely wouldn't be needed.

That's what I mean about the club trying to be too smart.
 

Murray2503

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The club didn't want a player missing out on a run in the SANFL so they ran the gauntlet by naming an injured player as the sub on the belief that they more than likely wouldn't be needed.

That's what I mean about the club trying to be too smart.
They went all in on a pair of 3's. Not a smart gamble. At least have a high pair next time you go all in. Trips on the flop upon reflection is a smarter move. Value bet on the turn. Bet the river. Opponent bluffs the river, all in with your fullhose you hit on the river.
 
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jenny61_99

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Not really because he only started to not train after the North game and also his form last year was questionable by a lot of us.
His stats would tell you that he was struggling prior to the North game too... and that not training was them dealing with the issue. I don't know why you are so adamant about this. It is clear he's struggled this season.

In fact, his comment about his interrupted pre season:

"I was still able to stay pretty active before returning (to the main group)," he said.

"So I didn't miss too much volume.

"But missed enough, the way these guys are training at the moment ... I'm feeling a bit sore and tired, but I'm sure I'll be fine."
 

ltdamn

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I think Crouch was worth somewhere around pick 14-16 given his injury record. Then he did the drugs. Adelaide didnt mess that up, he did. I dont see how we stuffed up much else, he wasnt in demand. What would you have specifically done different?
I would not have said 'Pick 2 or we are prepared to match' in a press conference if I thought a recently arrested, injury prone midfielder that runs one way was anywhere less than 100% likely to get Pick 2, and even less so if I wasn't actually going to match it anyway.

Would you?
 

Pilchard_Adams

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I would not have said 'Pick 2 or we are prepared to match' in a press conference if I thought a recently arrested, injury prone midfielder that runs one way was anywhere less than 100% likely to get Pick 2, and even less so if I wasn't actually going to match it anyway.

Would you?
And what would you have said instead?
 

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