No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[Rion]

This season reminds me of that horrible movie Groundhog day , because it is the same season repeating itself , Last year we got to the Bye rounds at 6 wins and 6 losses ,And maybe a silly chance of playing finals , Then we only won 2 of our remains 10 games This year 5 - 7 but won in round 13 to make it 6-7 ,We have come back from the bye playing what can only be described as shocking football .And i can't see where the other two wins are coming from , But 8 wins looks like a good result based on the last two weeks . Btw our percentage is lower this year besides our better scoring at Optus , Our scoring away has dropped to embarrassing levels .One poster noted one positive was that we have not copped a hundred point belting , Don't worry the way we are playing that is only a matter of time . And bah bad kicking it would have been against Melbourne last week anyway , That game was exactly like any 100 point thrashing i have ever witnessed .

Seems like we've just got better at junk times goals tbh. If the game is over in the first quarter I'm not exactly that impressed when we keep the margin to 10 goals... it's still a complete smashing with the same non-competitive edge of 100 point losses.

 

[Rion]

The Brisbane team who have one of the oldest midfields of a rebuilding team yet still only just got their 3rd win? Or the Adelaide and Essendon teams who are one win above us on the ladder and we beat both earlier this year?

Brisbane have had an incredibly hard fixture list, have a great mix of experienced talent and young stars (better youngsters than us imo) and have a better percentage. There the hardest to argue but it's pretty easy to at least make a case for them.

We beat Essendon and Adelaide when they weren't any good. When the mindset is there for Essendon and the talent not injured for Adelaide both have shown this season they could have easily made the top 8. Adelaide would have been in the top 4.

I think as supporters we overrate the potential of our own team to improve massively while expect everyone else to stand still or even get worse. It just doesn't happen like that. Both of those + GWS have significantly more area for improvement next year because they aren't just relying on the (hopeful) natural improvement of youngsters.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

Hawks went years without a Gf were near bankrupt and were going to merge with Melbourne until Don Scott organised a public donation drive to get them out of the shit. Clarkson was on the verge of being sacked .They embarked on total rebuild that incl gaining Buddy etc and even then were shit until Buddy and Co gained experience. Hawks 12 years of domination came about because of a massive rebuild , just like Freo are attempting.

Point is we were never meant to undertake a massive rebuild, we were meant be able sustained success and contention.
This has been the clubs mantra since we undertook the last rebuild starting back in 2009.
I’m saying whilst we rebuilding again other teams have been able to maintain their presence competing for a flag.
Listen to the commentary, our game style impacting even the WAFL where our affliate team Peel can only kick 2 goals for a game!!!!
That defensive gameplan is instructed from above - Ross and it’s a blight on football in WA.
There is talent at Peel, we are meant to be developing our young list and Peel start with 18 in defence????
Something isn’t right with the way we are tracking..... sorry, not trying to argue but that’s my take on our current club status.

 

[Hazelsnuts]

Hawks went years without a Gf were near bankrupt and were going to merge with Melbourne until Don Scott organised a public donation drive to get them out of the shit. Clarkson was on the verge of being sacked .They embarked on total rebuild that incl gaining Buddy etc and even then were shit until Buddy and Co gained experience. Hawks 12 years of domination came about because of a massive rebuild , just like Freo are attempting.

Point is we were never meant to undertake a massive rebuild, we were meant be able sustained success and contention.
This has been the clubs mantra since we undertook the last rebuild starting back in 2009.
I’m saying whilst we rebuilding again other teams have been able to maintain their presence competing for a flag.
Listen to the commentary, our game style impacting even the WAFL where our affliate team Peel can only kick 2 goals for a game!!!!
That defensive gameplan is instructed from above - Ross and it’s a blight on football in WA.
There is talent at Peel, we are meant to be developing our young list and Peel start with 18 in defence????
Something isn’t right with the way we are tracking..... sorry, not trying to argue but that’s my take on our current club status.

 

[Nothing]

Brisbane have had an incredibly hard fixture list, have a great mix of experienced talent and young stars (better youngsters than us imo) and have a better percentage. There the hardest to argue but it's pretty easy to at least make a case for them.

We beat Essendon and Adelaide when they weren't any good. When the mindset is there for Essendon and the talent not injured for Adelaide both have shown this season they could have easily made the top 8. Adelaide would have been in the top 4.

I think as supporters we overrate the potential of our own team to improve massively while expect everyone else to stand still or even get worse. It just doesn't happen like that. Both of those + GWS have significantly more area for improvement next year because they aren't just relying on the (hopeful) natural improvement of youngsters.

In 6 of our first 7 weeks, every team we played was equal top on points when we played them (except Dogs), indeed looking through the fixture I'd argue Brisbane have had an easier run. Yes they have been more competitive in losses something I hope we can address (it's been an issue for 20+ years). I guess I'll concede you can make a case, but you can make a case for Freo just as easily IMO.

And Melbourne beat us when we "weren't and good" and injured. It's swings and roundabouts and if you are going to discount the downside of Bombers and Adelaide you should do the same for us.

 

[Joao]

Point is we were never meant to undertake a massive rebuild, we were meant be able sustained success and contention.
This has been the clubs mantra since we undertook the last rebuild starting back in 2009.
I’m saying whilst we rebuilding again other teams have been able to maintain their presence competing for a flag.
Listen to the commentary, our game style impacting even the WAFL where our affliate team Peel can only kick 2 goals for a game!!!!
That defensive gameplan is instructed from above - Ross and it’s a blight on football in WA.
There is talent at Peel, we are meant to be developing our young list and Peel start with 18 in defence????
Something isn’t right with the way we are tracking..... sorry, not trying to argue but that’s my take on our current club status.

I am sure every fan of every club wants to stay competitive. It was blatantly clear in 2016 that wasn't going to be the case for us. At that point, we had no choice but to rebuild. Melting can rightly be directed to those primarily responsible for that (ie the list management team from 2005-2013).

Melting about the actual rebuild and those involved now doesn't make sense IMO.

Also for all Geelong and Hawthorn's staying competitive, neither looks particularly likely to win a flag anytime soon. Geelong maybe if they can somehow get over Richmond this year or maybe next. Hawthorn are at least 2 guns off IMO. There spine is almost as bad as ours and have even less midfield depth. They do have a much better forward line still although Cyril out hurts. Tom Lynch and Sloane would immediately make me reconsider, however.

 

[salim malik]

Point is we were never meant to undertake a massive rebuild, we were meant be able sustained success and contention.
This has been the clubs mantra since we undertook the last rebuild starting back in 2009.
I’m saying whilst we rebuilding again other teams have been able to maintain their presence competing for a flag.
Listen to the commentary, our game style impacting even the WAFL where our affliate team Peel can only kick 2 goals for a game!!!!
That defensive gameplan is instructed from above - Ross and it’s a blight on football in WA.
There is talent at Peel, we are meant to be developing our young list and Peel start with 18 in defence????




Something isn’t right with the way we are tracking..... sorry, not trying to argue but that’s my take on our current club status.

You mean the Peel that won the last 2 Gf,s and will finish in the finals again and as was stated on radio that iff Freo get the injuries under control could still knock of Subi. Do you mean the 2009 rebuild that developed into a gf appearence,top of the table finish,prelim final win in Vic and a Brownlow medal

 

[mightymouse75]

Chasing rainbows. We are still a year off being competitive again. It will take time.

 

[wayToGo_]

Clarkson's first season was 2005. They were uncompetitive for 2005 and 2006, then 13 wins in 2007. So 2 seasons for the angry ant to turn it around. If you want to compare us directly to Hawthorn it doesn't look good.

They did finish second bottom in 2004 as well, and missed finals in 2002 and 2003. Rebuilding isn't just about the head coach - eg Lloyd has been having a fair impact on our future. This argument is like saying Ross singlehandedly turned us around in just his first year (missed finals in 2011, he comes in and we make finals and then a GF the following year). Clarkson and Lyon deserve a heap of credit but there was some groundwork before they got to their respective clubs. We've had three years out of the finals. Why is everyone melting as if that's uncommon for other clubs?

 

[tonygeeks]

They did finish second bottom in 2004 as well, and missed finals in 2002 and 2003. Rebuilding isn't just about the head coach - eg Lloyd has been having a fair impact on our future. This argument is like saying Ross singlehandedly turned us around in just his first year (missed finals in 2011, he comes in and we make finals and then a GF the following year). Clarkson and Lyon deserve a heap of credit but there was some groundwork before they got to their respective clubs. We've had three years out of the finals. Why is everyone melting as if that's uncommon for other clubs?

Well it was a nice run to the GF in 13

Straight sets exit in 14 including a home finals loss

Very lucky QF final win at home and a home PF loss in 15

Then the greatest fall by a minor premier in the history of the game in 16

2 years of disappointing but not unexpected performance

At some stage during all that I would have liked to see a top to toe independent review of all football operations by a reputable firm , this has worked very well for other clubs and at least gives supporters confidence that someone has peeked under the rugs and checked the closets for skeletons. If the report came back that everything was ship shape and the right people have their hands on the tiller then I think most of us could look at what's happening with more confidence




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[wayToGo_]

At some stage during all that I would have liked to see a top to toe independent review of all football operations by a reputable firm , this has worked very well for other clubs and at least gives supporters confidence that someone has peeked under the rugs and checked the closets for skeletons. If the report came back that everything was ship shape and the right people have their hands on the tiller then I think most of us could look at what's happening with more confidence

Having worked with a bunch of people on the Board I would be very surprised if this didn't happen and isn't still happening. I can't see them inviting Hackdorn, Hardie, and co over to talk about it though

 

[tonygeeks]

Having worked with a bunch of people on the Board I would be very surprised if this didn't happen and isn't still happening. I can't see them inviting Hackdorn, Hardie, and co over to talk about it though

You think so ? Most other clubs make a big hoo haa about it open honest , proactive all that warm fuzzy stuff


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[wayToGo_]

You think so ? Most other clubs make a big hoo haa about it open honest , proactive all that warm fuzzy stuff

Speaking from a business perspective, you don't normally come out and say you are doing a review unless you are in damage control. Investors (members/sponsors for sporting clubs) are probably not going to go "great, we are doing a review, clearly this means things are going wonderfully"... But if there is a heap of pressure on that you need to be doing/changing something then saying "we've done a full review and are now taking action" might distract people for a while - delay to give you time to get things back on track. Governments use it all the time... I wouldn't ever say it was 'proactive' though. If we aren't showing further improvement next season then watch it get used. But all businesses/organisations/governments should be continually reviewing how they are going and Freo would definitely be with a Chair like Alcock.

 

[tonygeeks]

Speaking from a business perspective, you don't normally come out and say you are doing a review unless you are in damage control. Investors (members/sponsors for sporting clubs) are probably not going to go "great, we are doing a review, clearly this means things are going wonderfully"... But if there is a heap of pressure on that you need to be doing/changing something then saying "we've done a full review and are now taking action" might distract people for a while - delay to give you time to get things back on track. Governments use it all the time... I wouldn't ever say it was 'proactive' though. If we aren't showing further improvement next season then watch it get used. But all businesses/organisations/governments should be continually reviewing how they are going and Freo would definitely be with a Chair like Alcock.

External and internal reviews are totally different though , I'm no expert in how things are run down there but if an independent agent was coming in to go over the joint with a fine toothed comb I doubt that could be kept a secret or even why you would want to keep it a secret


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[Caldera]

They did finish second bottom in 2004 as well, and missed finals in 2002 and 2003. Rebuilding isn't just about the head coach - eg Lloyd has been having a fair impact on our future. This argument is like saying Ross singlehandedly turned us around in just his first year (missed finals in 2011, he comes in and we make finals and then a GF the following year). Clarkson and Lyon deserve a heap of credit but there was some groundwork before they got to their respective clubs. We've had three years out of the finals. Why is everyone melting as if that's uncommon for other clubs?

Three year out of finals is not uncommon (more common for some than others, that's a different argument). What is less common is low win counts for 3 years. I posted this in the RTB thread, but there are clubs who haven't gone 3 years with single digit win counts since Freo has been in the competition.

If I'm being honest with myself the bigger frustration is how we got here, rather than where we are. Frankly hearing or reading "sustained success" triggers me. The Rosich, Harris and Bond spouted this line (often in conjunction with "List Management Model"), yet here we are. At any organisation I've worked for if a plan isn't executed in the right way, lessons are learned through thorough reviews followed by making changes to ensure improved outcomes. Nothing has come from the club to suggest a review has been undertaken, the football dept remains unchanged or even weakened in the coaches box. Harris has gone, sure. We have a rowing coach now as well. These two changes alone are not giving me a great deal on confidence that the club is turning every stone to make sure we get back to where we need to be. From my perspective, it seems like the club is saying "Leave it to Lyon and Bond, they've got this".

 

[Rion]

In 6 of our first 7 weeks, every team we played was equal top on points when we played them (except Dogs), indeed looking through the fixture I'd argue Brisbane have had an easier run. Yes they have been more competitive in losses something I hope we can address (it's been an issue for 20+ years). I guess I'll concede you can make a case, but you can make a case for Freo just as easily IMO.

And Melbourne beat us when we "weren't and good" and injured. It's swings and roundabouts and if you are going to discount the downside of Bombers and Adelaide you should do the same for us.

I'd say the difference between us and Bombers/GWS/Adelaide is that all 3 are on a down-swing (which is unrelated to retirements/age) with the expectation that they'll swing back up while we have been wallowing in mediocrity for 3 years. Easier to believe in the team that's already done it (with essentially the same group of players) compared to the team that hasn't.

 

[Nickos66]

So my dog has been busting out and trotting off to the dog park on his own lately so i locked him inside today...


So he ate the front door knobView attachment 523316

Is that your dog in your avatar?

 

[Nickos66]

We're making the finals next year are we Salim? Big call!

I'm curious to see what the narrative will be from you when we're 6-10 with a percentage of 85 again this time next year.

 

[Nothing]

I'd say the difference between us and Bombers/GWS/Adelaide is that all 3 are on a down-swing (which is unrelated to retirements/age) with the expectation that they'll swing back up while we have been wallowing in mediocrity for 3 years. Easier to believe in the team that's already done it (with essentially the same group of players) compared to the team that hasn't.

Like our 2016?

 

[Mudd]

We're making the finals next year are we Salim? Big call!

I'm curious to see what the narrative will be from you when we're 6-10 with a percentage of 85 again this time next year.

If we are winning the flag in 2020 we are going to have to at least make finals next year.

 

[Joao]

If we are winning the flag in 2020 we are going to have to at least make finals next year.

Without signing 2-3 genuinely gun players in trade we ain't winning the flag in 2020 and I'll be surprised if we make finals next year. We may be notionally in the mix but can't see us getting it done considering we will be younger next year than this one with our likely retirements/delistings.

 

[FreoRicci]

Can we review Jason Weber's contract.. for the love of god.

 

[Joao]

Can we review Jason Weber's contract.. for the love of god.

I would hope we do from time to time. I mean it could literally just be bad luck but we at least need to ask the question to make sure.

 

[Outshined]

It's probably confirmation bias, but I can't remember the last time we had a decent stretch without injuries.

 

[Arcassius]

If we are winning the flag in 2020 we are going to have to at least make finals next year.

I think our age spread will still be too young in 2020 - unless we bring in a few more 21-24 year old players now. 2021-2022 is when I think we'll be peaking 'all things being equal'. It all depends on who we bring in to complement and provide depth and solid positional competition