No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[TheMcManusNose]

Lach72 look back at the Eagles of 2010 - 2014 and see how many crabs and poorly skilled players they had. Guys like Priddis, Masten, Gaff, Shuey, Shepherd. Now, amazingly they all have great skills!

The difference is that now when they are disposing of the ball they have some idea where it should go, they have players making space for them and they seem to actually be enjoying their footy. Our guys look like they are terrified the ball will come to them in case they have to make a decision.

Their guys skills have improved ours have gone backwards - see Barlow, Mayne, Ballas examples. Did their skills deteriorate or did our game plan just get so damned predictable that everything we do now is under pressure, either real or perceived?

I hear what you're saying and I agree that game plan and approach are major issues in this respect.

But I do personally give more weight to the personnel side. Of those you mention for the Eagles, their skills by foot (especially Shuey, Gaff, Shep and Masto. Priddis is a potato by foot) have never really been in question. It was the fact they couldn't win a contested situation to save themselves - they now play a style of football that plays to their strengths.

We play(ed) a style that emphasises the strengths of your DeBoers and Mzungus. The style that plays to our strengths is perhaps nullified by the evolution of the game and these fast running strategies.

And I think specifically a lack of quality talls hurts us coming out of defence and also in having a target to go to up front. A couple of times yesterday we again tried to hit Ballantyne as a forward target from a long kick. To me that is personnel and I am not sure even a Dogs or Eagles style attack can overcome that limitation.

But I do very much take your point that even Hill was spraying shit left right and centre. Something is going on there. Maybe an off day for everyone.

 

[Carnthedockers]

That too Clems Knee. I watched the Eagles play and it's a simple game - get the ball, give it to a fast moving player alongside or FORWARD of you, not behind you, find the loose guys in the forward line who swoop in and kick an easy goal.

Rinse and repeat. It's just about work ethic and absolute confidence in a game plan that works.

The problem is, we lack the pace and big forwards to carry out this game plan..

 

[SHill Shall]

The Hawks, Eagles and Bulldogs have two or three options streaming by or towards the ball carrier at all times. We are the most static side there is when we have the ball. And we take no risks. We generally see nothing forward or sideways and so head back to the pockets and get bottled in. Rinse and repeat.

When Sutty first broke through he was making Kicks into forward holes and ran hard to break lines. Now he and Sheeridan do almost none of it.

It's not about personnel - it's purely and simply game plan. Look at the unskilled players now going just fine under the Simpson system. Ross has a major challenge ahead - he seems to have lost the players for now and they can't get better by giving more effort or reducing skin folds. He has to embolden them to take risks again - just seems like the life has been squeezed out of the group.

Fyfe is a shadow of the player he was this time a year ago. Was obvious in the NAB challenge and again yesterday. We need our talisman back.

 

[DeanS]

Fyfe hasn't been the same player since that filthy sniper Mitchell kneed him. The effects of that still linger.

 

[ydraw]

While we obviously have some issues with skills, the most telling factor today was simply being outworked.

Nah, this is a copout. You can't accuse our players of not trying hard enough. It's just a lot more difficult when you are chasing all day because the other team has the ball. Doggies had nearly double our possessions. They won the midfield, and we turned it over every time we got it.

 

[ydraw]

Reality of the situation is that the AFL is trying to foster and encourage the style of game we saw today between the Eagles and Brisbane (166 - 102) and Port vs St Kilda (133 - 100).

They do not want to see grinding, hard fought wins of 82 points to 60 - it's about marketing the game in the same way as cricket is marketing T20. We are trying to play test cricket in a T20 arena and it's not going to work for us. Sure, we will win some games, we may even get to the finals, but I think you will see this year the teams that can score quickly and heavily will be the teams in the top positions. Even Sydney have gone from their traditional grinding game style to a fast, attacking style.

There's also the inconvenient fact that the hard fought, grinding style doesn't work. Time and again we've been shown up by top teams who attack. Our hard fought, grinding style is good for securing enough wins to top 4, but terrible for actually beating other top 4 teams.

 

[ydraw]

The problem is, we lack the pace and big forwards to carry out this game plan..

We only lack pace because we keep picking slow plodder role players.

 

[malpaso]

I'm travelling in Europe at the moment and woke up and checked the score earlier today. First thing that jumped into my head was "I think this will be the best thing to happen to us this year". It will be the spur the coaches and players need to not just 'win' games in the regular season but win to prepare for the season that counts.

If we are still shite after Round 5 then I'll start to worry.

 

[pavslovechild]

Sandi and Johno aren't worth 11 goals. We were bad, and yes it's round it 1, but so what? That makes it even worse. We should be fresh, fit, and ready. No real excuses today, and you know it.

Maybe not 11, but Johnson in defence, sandi first tap and bennell... That's a significant difference.

I'm just not subscribing to writing a team off after the first game, and believing that our game plan, kids etc all need to change as a result. Yes, filter the kids into games this year, 100 percent, but have faith in ross I say.

 

[Windor]

Sandi, Johnno and Alex Pearce for sure. All bigs though .Clarke and Griff gone. Muz for Johnno. To bring in Langdon, Blakely ,Collins who goes . Suban and Sutcliffe. Not really like for like. Hughes and Grey average yesterday. Its not as easy as it looks. Tough week ahead.

Whenever I can't get to a peel game I jump on here to get a run-down from BF. Yours is always one of the best and most informative. We all on here have our favorites - Grey is one of mine so I found it interesting to read your comment on him being average and then read the stats - 12 tackles and 2nd best player. I know stats aren't everything and I also know that he has a problem with disposal (because that doesn't get mentioned on here enough ) but so do the majority of Freo players going by yesterday's game...I think in the 2 games he's been selected to play for Freo he has shown a fair bit defensively and has more heart and determination than half the side that took the field against Western Bulldogs yesterday. Only player I saw show any passion at all was Suban. I think the kid deserves a crack at senior level but like I said - he is one of my favorites so am a tad bias. Love your reviews though Salim. Keep them coming

 

[Carnthedockers]

We only lack pace because we keep picking slow plodder role players.

Seems that we agree on most things. We have been gradually sliding for a while now, and not much has been done to stop it. How come some guys seem to get endless chances, while others don't.

 

[Big Animal]

i made the following comment last Thursday and stick by it (even though it was called bs at the time):

"It feels to me like it will be a down year for us. With question marks already over Pav and Jonno for R1, I think we will realise during the season that we have pushed our old blokes for a year too long and it will take a while for the incumbents to settle into these key positions. I don't think Jonno's body can take another full season of AFL and Pav's lower legs are not far behind. In their absence, and with diminishing scores and wins, our foot soldiers' deficiencies will become more obvious and less acceptable. Sorry. I've been pretty upbeat about our chances the past three years but we keep relying on the same old horses and they are starting to look well and truly flogged.

You don't change the team while you are winning so the positive on this mini-slide will hopefully be a fanatical grab for Hooker and McCarthy/Hogan's signature to fill the bookends at the end of the season, and the transition of some of the younger blokes into the team to replace some of the bottom 3 or 4 for a rise back up the ladder"

it will mean a painful year but hopefully will mean a quicker transition of players in and out of the team so we don't waste the prime years for fyfe and Bennell

 

[DudleyDocker]

i made the following comment last Thursday and stick by it (even though it was called bs at the time):

"It feels to me like it will be a down year for us. With question marks already over Pav and Jonno for R1, I think we will realise during the season that we have pushed our old blokes for a year too long and it will take a while for the incumbents to settle into these key positions. I don't think Jonno's body can take another full season of AFL and Pav's lower legs are not far behind. In their absence, and with diminishing scores and wins, our foot soldiers' deficiencies will become more obvious and less acceptable. Sorry. I've been pretty upbeat about our chances the past three years but we keep relying on the same old horses and they are starting to look well and truly flogged.

You don't change the team while you are winning so the positive on this mini-slide will hopefully be a fanatical grab for Hooker and McCarthy/Hogan's signature to fill the bookends at the end of the season, and the transition of some of the younger blokes into the team to replace some of the bottom 3 or 4 for a rise back up the ladder"

it will mean a painful year but hopefully will mean a quicker transition of players in and out of the team so we don't waste the prime years for fyfe and Bennell

Is that you Nostradamus?

 

[Carnthedockers]

i made the following comment last Thursday and stick by it (even though it was called bs at the time):

"It feels to me like it will be a down year for us. With question marks already over Pav and Jonno for R1, I think we will realise during the season that we have pushed our old blokes for a year too long and it will take a while for the incumbents to settle into these key positions. I don't think Jonno's body can take another full season of AFL and Pav's lower legs are not far behind. In their absence, and with diminishing scores and wins, our foot soldiers' deficiencies will become more obvious and less acceptable. Sorry. I've been pretty upbeat about our chances the past three years but we keep relying on the same old horses and they are starting to look well and truly flogged.

You don't change the team while you are winning so the positive on this mini-slide will hopefully be a fanatical grab for Hooker and McCarthy/Hogan's signature to fill the bookends at the end of the season, and the transition of some of the younger blokes into the team to replace some of the bottom 3 or 4 for a rise back up the ladder"

it will mean a painful year but hopefully will mean a quicker transition of players in and out of the team so we don't waste the prime years for fyfe and Bennell

When you invest so much in supporting a team, as we do, you become able to read the small signs as to how we are traveling. In previous years I've been very upbeat, but not this year. I also believe (although he didn't play a lot last year) that duffield was a significant loss. One of our few elite penetrating kicks.
It's about team balance,It reminds me of the year we made the pre lim against Sydney all those years ago. The coaches wouldn't pick Troy Cook, and we had all these outside runners, and no one to go and get the ball. The moment he was picked, it completely changed the dynamic of our team, and we won a heap of games in a row.
I just don't see where the improvement is going to come from.
Barlow looks slow, and his kick is getting worse
Zac Clarke would prefer to be at clubba, shows a distinct lack of interest
Lee spurrs disposal is terrible
Dawson can only defend
Pearce and hill distinctly dislike a hard ball get
Mayne crumbles under pressure
Tabs shows a distinct lack of aggression
Pav is dropping chest marks, and constantly missing clutch goals.
Mzungu has dropped pace, and has average skills at best.
Clancee is just vanilla.
There are a lot of deficiencies in the last.
If you remember, last year, Matt Suckling was berated by Hawks supporters for his ball use, he would be in the top 5 kicks in our team.

 

[Clems Knee]

When you invest so much in supporting a team, as we do, you become able to read the small signs as to how we are traveling. In previous years I've been very upbeat, but not this year. I also believe (although he didn't play a lot last year) that duffield was a significant loss. One of our few elite penetrating kicks.
It's about team balance,It reminds me of the year we made the pre lim against Sydney all those years ago. The coaches wouldn't pick Troy Cook, and we had all these outside runners, and no one to go and get the ball. The moment he was picked, it completely changed the dynamic of our team, and we won a heap of games in a row.
I just don't see where the improvement is going to come from.
Barlow looks slow, and his kick is getting worse
Zac Clarke would prefer to be at clubba, shows a distinct lack of interest
Lee spurrs disposal is terrible
Dawson can only defend
Pearce and hill distinctly dislike a hard ball get
Mayne crumbles under pressure
Tabs shows a distinct lack of aggression
Pav is dropping chest marks, and constantly missing clutch goals.
Mzungu has dropped pace, and has average skills at best.
Clancee is just vanilla.
There are a lot of deficiencies in the last.
If you remember, last year, Matt Suckling was berated by Hawks supporters for his ball use, he would be in the top 5 kicks in our team.

You forgot those spuds Fyfe and Mundy, the statue Griffin and those front runners Walters, Ballantyne, and the young kids who don't do enough: Sheridan, Sutcliffe and Weller and Neale is going home to SA anyway so don't give him a game. Looks like Suban and Ibbotson are the only players not worth melting over.

We're doomed, doomed I tell ya. The sky is falling in.

 

[meima]

We're doomed, doomed I tell ya. The sky is falling in.

The sky is falling, we keep on surviving in melting environment. Hoo hee hoo

 

[ydraw]

If you remember, last year, Matt Suckling was berated by Hawks supporters for his ball use, he would be in the top 5 kicks in our team.

Suckling is easily the best kick in the AFL, so pretty ridiculous on the part of Hawks supporters.

 

[Carnthedockers]

Suckling is easily the best kick in the AFL, so pretty ridiculous on the part of Hawks supporters.

Last year, AFL.com did an article on each club, and which player frustrated its supporters. Pretty sure theirs was Matt Suckling. Ours was Dawson.

 

[salim malik]

Whenever I can't get to a peel game I jump on here to get a run-down from BF. Yours is always one of the best and most informative. We all on here have our favorites - Grey is one of mine so I found it interesting to read your comment on him being average and then read the stats - 12 tackles and 2nd best player. I know stats aren't everything and I also know that he has a problem with disposal (because that doesn't get mentioned on here enough ) but so do the majority of Freo players going by yesterday's game...I think in the 2 games he's been selected to play for Freo he has shown a fair bit defensively and has more heart and determination than half the side that took the field against Western Bulldogs yesterday. Only player I saw show any passion at all was Suban. I think the kid deserves a crack at senior level but like I said - he is one of my favorites so am a tad bias. Love your reviews though Salim. Keep them coming

Brady is a great competitor but had a complete brain fade when he charged an East Freo player standing the mark and took him full in the back when he wasn't expecting it. Hurt the guy and we lost the ball ,they took it up the other end and scored. It soured his game for me .

 

[Carnthedockers]

You forgot those spuds Fyfe and Mundy, the statue Griffin and those front runners Walters, Ballantyne, and the young kids who don't do enough: Sheridan, Sutcliffe and Weller and Neale is going home to SA anyway so don't give him a game. Looks like Suban and Ibbotson are the only players not worth melting over.

We're doomed, doomed I tell ya. The sky is falling in.

This is the melt thread mate. Head next door for the Unicorns and Rainbows thread.

 

[refresh]

For example: did you see that kick Bennell hit Sonny with against Geelong?

Maybe Sonny and Hill could hit that pass...now extrapolate that lack across the paddock and there you have our problem.

While we have guys who's KPI is miles run rather than targets hit, we're stuffed.

Weller, Langdon, Blakely, Tucker will get fitter.

Barlow, Mayne, Mzungu, Suban, Clancee, DeBoer and to a lesser extent Spurr aren't becoming better kicks.

Spot on. We don't have enough players who can hit a target. Sonny, Hill, Mundy, Pav, Bennell can. Anyone else?

The 10 metre exclusion zone has made kicking even more important and we can't kick.

 

[salim malik]

Both the seniors and Peel boys played like they trained Fri. Terrible decision making and disposal. All who watched in our group thought if we play like we're training today we will be thrashed. The old chestnut of playing like you train came home to roost.

 

[Bonfire]

i'll give it a few more games before i'd get the rope out off the shed (been a long 20+yrs) hoping Nostradamus is wrong and Ross gets it right real soon, but i can see some of his points, yesterday was mierda

 

[Silent Alarm]

Also wtf why wasn't Fyfe played as a stay at home forward? He was shut down extremely well by Wallis. He was pointless as a midfielder. But we also missed any semblance of a forward target who wasn't inept/being double teamed at 33.

 

[Caldera]

Also wtf why wasn't Fyfe played as a stay at home forward? He was shut down extremely well by Wallis. He was pointless as a midfielder. But we also missed any semblance of a forward target who wasn't inept/being double teamed at 33.

We only went inside 50 30 times for the game. Fyfe down there for a full game would be pointless.