No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[FreoBulldog]

The other thing to remember is Josh Kennedy was pick 4 in his draft, Jack Darling was pick 26 in his draft, but was mentioned as a top 10 pick quite a bit. Whereas Taberner was a rookie pick. I think Tabs, while he has been very frustrating to watch, has shown some development recently and should be given all year to develop more.

 

[freoextra]

Clarke is deadset average but next year only one of those players will be on an AFL list next year.



So Barlow and De Boer should be played before Croz and Sheridan. Madness. Complete madness. Both Barlow and De Boer won't be at Freo next year. Nor should they be.

Zac's saving grace is that he's a tall and we have none. None at all. I don't rate him or care for him though.

Not hard to work out that DeBoer's card is marked for next year but not so sure about Barlow. He has reminded everyone that when played in position he still has a great appetite for competing and also significant leadership skills. I expect he will be back in the team next week and then who knows.

 

[Unique Name]

Not hard to work out that DeBoer's card is marked for next year but not so sure about Barlow. He has reminded everyone that when played in position he still has a great appetite for competing and also significant leadership skills. I expect he will be back in the team next week and then who knows.

It annoyed me when Mundy had to get moved into the middle to help out (Even though he did help out). If Barlow was in we would have be fine in the midfield (Neale, Barlow, Blakely) and then Mundy could have been kept in the backline.

 

[wayToGo_]

Have managed to take a big deep breath after last night's game. Richmond were in good form prior to our game so I didn't expect us to win last night but thought we'd at least have been more competitive. We seemed to have gone backwards rather than forwards, plus the two injuries on top was "not ideal".

The more I think about it, the more I think the problem isn't primarily our players. Sure we could do with some more skilled ball users but which club couldn't? I just find it unfathomable that our AA40 squad defender in Ibbo and one of the most reliable kicks in 2015 (Sutcliffe) can both become so bad so quickly without something external to them being the main cause.

Our defenders all look so anxious whenever they have the ball in hand. As much as it is professional sport I think they'd benefit if it was a bit more fun down back. Run and carry, take the game on and stop trying to over think and calculate every move so much - play football not chess. We're making mistakes as it is so what have we got to lose?

I'm not convinced the rumours about off-field cultural problems are true but it seems there are definitely some on-field, particularly in our back 6 - I think they've over engineered it. Guerra trying to make it too Hawthorn-like perhaps?. Even with our current list surely it is something that is still fixable. Think we need to start asking more questions of the coaches given the skills issue is so wide-spread and stop putting all the blame and spud labels on our players.

There is no question our forward line isn't great and we knew that before the season started but I just don't accept that our midfield and defence are really as bad as they have been this season. We need to be playing a brand of footy that our players are going to be passionate about and we haven't been doing that for quite a while now.

 

[Freo]

Have managed to take a big deep breath after last night's game. Richmond were in good form prior to our game so I didn't expect us to win last night but thought we'd at least have been more competitive. We seemed to have gone backwards rather than forwards, plus the two injuries on top was "not ideal".

The more I think about it, the more I think the problem isn't primarily our players. Sure we could do with some more skilled ball users but which club couldn't? I just find it unfathomable that our AA40 squad defender in Ibbo and one of the most reliable kicks in 2015 (Sutcliffe) can both become so bad so quickly without something external to them being the main cause.

Our defenders all look so anxious whenever they have the ball in hand. As much as it is professional sport I think they'd benefit if it was a bit more fun down back. Run and carry, take the game on and stop trying to over think and calculate every move so much - play football not chess. We're making mistakes as it is so what have we got to lose?

I'm not convinced the rumours about off-field cultural problems are true but it seems there are definitely some on-field, particularly in our back 6 - I think they've over engineered it. Guerra trying to make it too Hawthorn-like perhaps?. Even with our current list surely it is something that is still fixable. Think we need to start asking more questions of the coaches given the skills issue is so wide-spread and stop putting all the blame and spud labels on our players.

There is no question our forward line isn't great and we knew that before the season started but I just don't accept that our midfield and defence are really as bad as they have been this season. We need to be playing a brand of footy that our players are going to be passionate about and we haven't been doing that for quite a while now.

Agree with most of that. No doubt, we are lacking in skill-gun premiership teams generally have no weaknesses (WC excluded), and injuries obviously have added to this, but we have more holes than a block of Swiss cheese.
I suspect there may be deeper issues going on as well given our dramatic form drop since round 10 last year. Yes, the new rule interpretations have hurt us but we have been woeful even before the injury crisis.

 

[DudleyDocker]

We are not playing very well this year.

 

[Carl Hooper]

Dafuq? Taberner has actually played reasonable footy the last few weeks.

Reasonable? By Tabs standards which is very low. And whats reasonably well, bags of 1 goal? Well then it seems we are all happy with a mediocre forward line with mediorcre efforts from mediocre players.

What has he exactly shown? Kicking is off, gets beaten in almost every contest and the constant brain fades... we are also forgetting how much of a passenger he was last season. Freo basically running a bus service out here with all these passengers.

 

[Rob]

The other thing to remember is Josh Kennedy was pick 4 in his draft, Jack Darling was pick 26 in his draft, but was mentioned as a top 10 pick quite a bit. Whereas Taberner was a rookie pick. I think Tabs, while he has been very frustrating to watch, has shown some development recently and should be given all year to develop more.

Even Kennedy took years to be productive. 29 games in his first 3 years for just 18 goals. It took until his 4th season to nearly average 2 goals a game.

Not suggesting Tabs will end up like Kennedy, but young KPPs generally take time. And in any case, we don't really have a choice. It's not like we have blokes kicking bags in the WAFL that we should be playing. Anyone see that shot Apeness had late in the game on the weekend from the boundary - needing only to score to basically seal the game - and miss by about 30 metres? Fair dinkum.....

 

[Carl Hooper]

I wouldnt be so negative and impatient if he actually showed promise but he doesnt kick bags and he doesnt set them up... something weve lacked for how many years now? Its not all Tabs fault I know, but he needs to get better.

 

[Carl Hooper]

Even Kennedy took years to be productive. 29 games in his first 3 years for just 18 goals. It took until his 4th season to nearly average 2 goals a game.

Not suggesting Tabs will end up like Kennedy, but young KPPs generally take time. And in any case, we don't really have a choice. It's not like we have blokes kicking bags in the WAFL that we should be playing. Anyone see that shot Apeness had late in the game on the weekend from the boundary - needing only to score to basically seal the game - and miss by about 30 metres? Fair dinkum.....

We dont have to play him in the AFL though, let him play in the WAFL and bag goals, get some confidence up. At this rate hes just going to get demoralized week in week out at AFL level.

 

[leeloo]

We dont have to play him in the AFL though, let him play in the WAFL and bag goals, get some confidence up. At this rate hes just going to get demoralized week in week out at AFL level.

It will toughen him up. In a perfect world you give him long stints in the AFL with some rotations back to the WAFL to keep his body right but at the moment, he will need to learn his trade on the big stage. I vaguely recall some coach (could have been Roos?) saying that players don't develop in the VFL, they need game time in the AFL. And let's face it, the whole team is getting a lesson in being demoralised at the moment.

 

[scon]

At this rate hes just going to get demoralized week in week out at AFL level.

It's closer to the opposite in fact;he's having a go against some top class AFL defenders and they're testing him and he's testing them.
As is the AFL regulation and tradition, he is allowed to have his arms chopped repeatedly.

 

[raffrox]

Way to completely misread what I actually posted. I said Croz and Sherro have shown little progress shown in 5 years. I said a win or two would be good for the team and especially the younger guys. I said I'd rather have Barlow on our list 2016/2017 than a pea heart like Clarke or someone not giving enough effort (RTB alluded to this) and I said Barlow and de Boer would have offered more in the conditions last night than Clarke when we were always going to be destroyed in the clearances. If I play your game, are you saying you'd rather develop a losing culture among our young players than win a game. Madness. (see what I did there?)

How did I misread what you posted?

That would be a good argument if Clarke, Sherro, Clance, Ibbo, Mayne, Croz etc were showing some development or form. I'd rather we pick some heart and good decision makers and have a chance of winning for the young fellas out there than those who have shown nothing for weeks.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

What were you saying with this post? Explain to me where you didn't mean Shero and Croz shouldn't be playing?

I've lurked a fair amount on this board and my favourite threads of all time were the delusional Viv Michie threads. People have whinged for years about us not playing youngsters. Now we are and we are finding out the truth of what that actually means people don't have the stomach for it. Stuff that.

The injuries have exposed us in the win-loss column (we might have won a game or two and be sitting 15th or something) but that would have hidden where we are truly at. This is where our team is truly at. Can Croz play? Can Shero play? They are currently unanswered questions and we need to finnd out the answers.

Will Barlow, De Boer, Mzungu, Clancee and a few others be in our team the next time we are in the finals? We know the answer to that one. I very much doubt it.

 

[raffrox]

Not hard to work out that DeBoer's card is marked for next year but not so sure about Barlow. He has reminded everyone that when played in position he still has a great appetite for competing and also significant leadership skills. I expect he will be back in the team next week and then who knows.

A bit of a band aid. We all know that Barlows best is in the guts but his foot skills are not up to modern day footy. If our team is going to be half decent its time for him to move on.

 

[Rob]

We dont have to play him in the AFL though, let him play in the WAFL and bag goals, get some confidence up. At this rate hes just going to get demoralized week in week out at AFL level.

On what possible grounds would you have to say that given he's actually getting better now? I might have agreed with you last year, but he's looking the part now. A shit ton of improvement left for sure, but he's generally competing well and appears to be getting more confidence with every game. Last year no way would he have taken that snap for goal he took last night for example.

But most importantly, who do you replace him with?

 

[hoss]

How did I misread what you posted?
What were you saying with this post? Explain to me where you didn't mean Shero and Croz shouldn't be playing?
People have whinged for years about us not playing youngsters. Now we are and we are finding out the truth of what that actually means people don't have the stomach for it. Stuff that.
Can Croz play? Can Shero play? They are currently unanswered questions and we need to find out the answers.
Will Barlow, De Boer, Mzungu, Clancee and a few others be in our team the next time we are in the finals? We know the answer to that one. I very much doubt it.

I'm not going to explain something when it is clear what I wrote. You've drawn some pretty big assumptions from my post though. Will Pav be in our team next time we play finals, will Johnno, will Sandi, will Mundy, will D Pearce, will Spurr? ...who knows but the young fellas need some experience out there, and certainly would have benefited from it Sat night. I'm for playing youngsters .... Blakely, Weller, Hughes, Apeness, Langdon etc. Crozier and Sherro are a different group for mine ..... five years down the track and we still don't know whether they can play consistent football. No one should get a free ticket just because they're 'younger'. I'd rather play those that deserve a game based on effort, skills no matter their age. You disagree, and you're entitled to.

 

[hoss]

A bit of a band aid. We all know that Barlows best is in the guts but his foot skills are not up to modern day footy. If our team is going to be half decent its time for him to move on.

Nor are Lachie Neale's but let's hope he has time to work on it.

 

[freoextra]

On what possible grounds would you have to say that given he's actually getting better now? I might have agreed with you last year, but he's looking the part now. A shit ton of improvement left for sure, but he's generally competing well and appears to be getting more confidence with every game. Last year no way would he have taken that snap for goal he took last night for example.

But most importantly, who do you replace him with?

I am actually looking forward to the Tabs and Apeness forwardline. Apeness is being held back until he can run out a game and probably to bring up his skill level as well, but boy is he going to be making some defenders watch out, he is a bone crunching machine. I like that these two will have some run in them and years to improve, they will never be anywhere as good as Pav but Pav was a once in a generation champion. With our backline problems I would like to see Pav go back if Collins is not up to the job, it seems to be the only way to "balance" our key position players.

 

[freoextra]

A bit of a band aid. We all know that Barlows best is in the guts but his foot skills are not up to modern day footy. If our team is going to be half decent its time for him to move on.

For sure his kicking skills are his biggest issue but I would say they generally improve as the season goes on. He is a workhorse who gets better the more you use him. I loved his leadership for Peel on the weekend, he really took over the team and drove them to victory. I think with our injury issues we could really use another ball getter in the midfield at the moment plus he has responded in the right manner to being dropped. Weller starting to look sore and Blakely will probably struggle after a couple more games in the middle.

I think this team is lacking a little bit of leadership at the moment (adjustment from Pav and lack of McPharlin and Sandi). I think Barlow will enhance our young players and not hold them back.

At the end of the year there are plenty of players up for the chop including Mzungu, Silvagni, DeBoer, Pav, DeLuca, Hurley, Smith, C Pearce, Mayne, Hannath and Clarke. I think Barlow would be more value to the team over the next one to two years than them.

 

[ydraw]

Reasonable? By Tabs standards which is very low. And whats reasonably well, bags of 1 goal? Well then it seems we are all happy with a mediocre forward line with mediorcre efforts from mediocre players..

Pretty much, yes. Our forward line has been the worst in the league for a number of seasons now. If it improves to mediocre thanks to Taberner, then it will be well worth the worthless rookie pick we used picking him up.

 

[E Shed]

Have managed to take a big deep breath after last night's game. Richmond were in good form prior to our game so I didn't expect us to win last night but thought we'd at least have been more competitive. We seemed to have gone backwards rather than forwards, plus the two injuries on top was "not ideal".

The more I think about it, the more I think the problem isn't primarily our players. Sure we could do with some more skilled ball users but which club couldn't? I just find it unfathomable that our AA40 squad defender in Ibbo and one of the most reliable kicks in 2015 (Sutcliffe) can both become so bad so quickly without something external to them being the main cause.

Our defenders all look so anxious whenever they have the ball in hand. As much as it is professional sport I think they'd benefit if it was a bit more fun down back. Run and carry, take the game on and stop trying to over think and calculate every move so much - play football not chess. We're making mistakes as it is so what have we got to lose?

I'm not convinced the rumours about off-field cultural problems are true but it seems there are definitely some on-field, particularly in our back 6 - I think they've over engineered it. Guerra trying to make it too Hawthorn-like perhaps?. Even with our current list surely it is something that is still fixable. Think we need to start asking more questions of the coaches given the skills issue is so wide-spread and stop putting all the blame and spud labels on our players.

There is no question our forward line isn't great and we knew that before the season started but I just don't accept that our midfield and defence are really as bad as they have been this season. We need to be playing a brand of footy that our players are going to be passionate about and we haven't been doing that for quite a while now.

Great post. Watching the games today the way Bulldogs, GWS & even Melbourne & Brisbane run the ball out of defense & use the corridor. By comparison our movement is so static & hesitant. Our back line is so broken & lacking confidence.

 

[kingswood71]

On what possible grounds would you have to say that given he's actually getting better now? I might have agreed with you last year, but he's looking the part now. A shit ton of improvement left for sure, but he's generally competing well and appears to be getting more confidence with every game. Last year no way would he have taken that snap for goal he took last night for example.

But most importantly, who do you replace him with?

Good post
Tabs is developing okay as far as I can see. Lots of contests from the high balls that come in...gets the ball to ground. Not afraid to work up the ground either. Thing we need to remember is that he had played 35 games...and many of these were 1/2 games as the sub...so probably only 25 or so actual full games.

 

[meima]

Good post
Tabs is developing okay as far as I can see. Lots of contests from the high balls that come in...gets the ball to ground. Not afraid to work up the ground either. Thing we need to remember is that he had played 35 games...and many of these were 1/2 games as the sub...so probably only 25 or so actual full games.

Not a fan tab, won't said good or bad thing about him.

 

[beetz]

Good post
Tabs is developing okay as far as I can see. Lots of contests from the high balls that come in...gets the ball to ground. Not afraid to work up the ground either. Thing we need to remember is that he had played 35 games...and many of these were 1/2 games as the sub...so probably only 25 or so actual full games.

Well said.

I had my doubts on Tabs earlier this year but the last 3-4 weeks he has competed really well. Taken a lot of great contested grabs and runs his defender ragged. I don't think he will ever be a #1 option but he is on his way to becoming a great 2nd or third tall.

The curve is certainly trending upwards after a looooong plateau.

 

[Tonga Bob]

We are not playing very well this year.

This guy gets it