No Oppo Supporters The Melt Thread

[DudleyDocker]

Geelong scored 64 of their points due to our turnovers, the same issue as last year. We will not win many games if we cannot reduce dramatically the number of times we give it to the opposition.

This is the key. Quite aside from the ones where we kicked it straight to them within range of goals, the ones in the middle of the ground leave us totally exposed in defense, as our guys are running the other way. Short of congesting the backline just in case of a turnover, we have to persevere and get better at our ball retention. Having guys in the backline who can occasionally hit a target by hand or foot will no doubt help.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Geelong scored 64 of their points due to our turnovers, the same issue as last year. We will not win many games if we cannot reduce dramatically the number of times we give it to the opposition.

This. Poor disposal. Lack of talk. No-one wanting responsibility for the final disposal to get it out of the danger zone. Even poor inside 50 entries comes down to this

Can be worked on over time. FWIW I saw enough effort for most of the guys out there - even if the execution was poor. Thankfully, we can work on that (I hope)

 

[Scham]

It's 4 years after we kicked ourselves out of a flag and we've literally made 0 progression on accuracy in front of the sticks, or kicking in general.

If 4 years isn't enough for Ross to sort out THE most glaring flaw to our game, then what makes people think he'll get it fixed in another 4?

He's great in a press conference old Rosco, but it's starting to look like he's all piss and wind.

We're all about effort now, the skills will take care of themselves.

 

[meima]

The players noticed the shift and said let’s stop talking about skill execution and let’s value what we always have which is collective effort and great preparation and teamsmanship and those sort of things.- Ross Lyon.

 

[Joeltownsmith]

Geelong scored 64 of their points due to our turnovers, the same issue as last year. We will not win many games if we cannot reduce dramatically the number of times we give it to the opposition.

64 points that is just mind boggling. When I look at some our squad I would've thought thiers elite kickers thier.

 

[Nightrain]

I thought the preseason after 2015 we did just do skills and not fitness? it got us nowhere
As for Brad Hill being the only dangerous player with ball in hand, his brother is the only thing that stopped us being utterly embarrassed. We need three Stephen Hill's, one on each line. Bennell plays, maybe we can get away with two.

I went to some of the pre-season training sessions in 2016 and if that was skill work then I can see why we are lacking. I felt it was more about learning the new game plan and structures. Maybe the regular training watchers can verify or shoot me down.

I noticed Brad a few times last night, get frustrated after he'd get away from his opponent, find the space but not get the ball kicked to him. On last night's effort he looked the most composed out of our ball users with ball in hand.

 

[Joeltownsmith]

Is it our skills or is it game plan?

 

[igon value]

It's 4 years after we kicked ourselves out of a flag and we've literally made 0 progression on accuracy in front of the sticks, or kicking in general.

If 4 years isn't enough for Ross to sort out THE most glaring flaw to our game, then what makes people think he'll get it fixed in another 4?

He's great in a press conference old Rosco, but it's starting to look like he's all piss and wind.

What concerns me is how so many other facets of our game have gradually gone backwards since then.

Lyon hasn't looked confident in what he's doing since midway 2015.

 

[Bicco]

I have a feeling that Bennell will make little or no difference to our overall performance. Lyon will not know how to use him. We have so many attacking weapons now for 0 result.
Fyfe, Brownlow medallist and Captain.
Sandi, many would say the most dominant ruck of his era.
The Hills, pure silk.
Mundy, former captain and elite disposal.
Neale, highest posession getter in the league.
Walters, many would say our most skilled player.
Sunshine, 40 goals in his 2nd year and first round pick.
There's so many ways to re jig the foward line, but Lyon wont make it work, he can't.
We still have 3 players running to the ball, one lays a poor tackle that doesnt wrap up the arms, the ball is disposed of and off they go.
The whole point of reduced bench rotation is to highlight players with skill and get rid of these 6'3 athletes. Lyon is missing the boat. He blamed himself to take the heat off of the players, which is nice of him. Our forward structure needs to change. We need a big marker (Sunshine) and a crumber (Walters/Bennell) at the top of the square at all times. Leading out when we get the ball forward of centre. It'll never happen though. Lyon wants effort, not skill.

 

[Joeltownsmith]

And what's with Weller as a hb, he looks so much more dangerous in the front half he's all class such a waste

 

[Banker]

I have come to melt about the positivity thread

 

[Allikat]

I have come to melt about the positivity thread

I've come to melt about people melting about my positivity thread

 

[TheMcManusNose]

There are still a fair few bog average players on this list we need to turn over. Can't do the lot in one off-season. Subes, D. Pearce, Sutcliffe, Dawson, Ibbo, Griffin etc still playing after a year or more of decidedly mediocre performances. Realistically I can't see any of those (and guys like Spurr, Johnson, Mundy and Sandilands unfortunately) really being part of the next premiership tilt.

Some of them like Dawson are quite obviously placeholders for injured players but we still need to focus on getting games into kids this year. Balic, Darcy, Ryan, Logue and maybe even Strnadica need to get games.

And what's with Weller as a hb, he looks so much more dangerous in the front half he's all class such a waste

I am forced to agree with this as a general statement. The back line is what is ****ing everything up. Not only ball movement out of it, but a lack of competent defenders and ball-users back there is forcing us to shoe-horn players like Weller into defence. I'd much rather him playing off a forward flank.

 

[ydraw]

It's 4 years after we kicked ourselves out of a flag and we've literally made 0 progression on accuracy in front of the sticks, or kicking in general.

If 4 years isn't enough for Ross to sort out THE most glaring flaw to our game, then what makes people think he'll get it fixed in another 4?

He's great in a press conference old Rosco, but it's starting to look like he's all piss and wind.

Yep I am well and truly sick of seeing us kick 10.15 every single week.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Is it our skills or is it game plan?

Both. We don't train skills. Game plan issues have been covered somewhat already.

C-Shape does not work anymore.

 

[Joeltownsmith]

There are still a fair few bog average players on this list we need to turn over. Can't do the lot in one off-season. Subes, D. Pearce, Sutcliffe, Dawson, Ibbo, Griffin etc still playing after a year or more of decidedly mediocre performances. Realistically I can't see any of those (and guys like Spurr, Johnson, Mundy and Sandilands unfortunately) really being part of the next premiership tilt.

Some of them like Dawson are quite obviously placeholders for injured players but we still need to focus on getting games into kids this year. Balic, Darcy, Ryan, Logue and maybe even Strnadica need to get games.



I am forced to agree with this as a general statement. The back line is what is ******* everything up. Not only ball movement out of it, but a lack of competent defenders and ball-users back there is forcing us to shoe-horn players like Weller into defence. I'd much rather him playing off a forward flank.

Can't we let blakely Weller become consistent afl players before we through curve balls, if anything blakely would be a Matty Boyd type back

 

[StingBitten]

****ing Aussies ****ing up the 4th test and a year of unwatchable footy. Why the **** do I love sport so much?

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Since the 2015 bye, our record is: 12-25 wins/loss

I don't think this is good enough.

 

[Halfbaked]

Have someone new sitting behind me. Yells kick it long if we try and switch the ball . Yells look for someone in short if we kick it long .
Then if (when) we stuff it up yells I told you so.
He gets most of players names wrong as he abuses them.
THEN WHEN we do move the ball well he tells everyone how clever he is and that he should be the coach.
Melt over.

 

[Square Peg]

Have someone new sitting behind me. Yells kick it long if we try and switch the ball . Yells look for someone in short if we kick it long .
Then if (when) we stuff it up yells I told you so.
He gets most of players names wrong as he abuses them.
THEN WHEN we do move the ball well he tells everyone how clever he is and that he should be the coach.
Melt over.

How is Harves these days, looking fit?

 

[Steinfreo]

Please Sonson dont dab when you kick one when we are 7-8 goals down

 

[DudleyDocker]

Please Sonson dont dab when you kick one when we are 7-8 goals down

As has been explained several times, it was a Starlight Foundation pledge - he was doing it for the kids.

 

[PurpleWizard]

Don't let any team have a spare defender. Our strength is around the ball and we need to have a forward structure that suits quick kicks from congestion. We have a very average forward line and we have zero chance of maintaining possession if we out numbered. Give our forward line a chance ffs.

I'd like to see us back ourselves in to win the ball. Not back ourselves to win the ball and just in case we turn it over we're prepared for it with an extra back. We structure up like we have Wayne Carey at centre half forward and Plugger in the goal square. It's embarrassing watching CMac and all the other forwards continuously taking on 2 defenders. It's like where okay with turning over the ball as long as if it's on the wing or at half forward.

 

[Crippa]

Excuse me while I melt about this melt -

This team is going somewhere...backwards.

Since the start of last season

We are 4-19.

Only one of those losses has been by less than 17 pts (14 have been by 31+ pts, 8 by 41+ pts).

We have scored 90+ pts 4 times and conceded 90+ pts 14 times.


At Subiaco

Overall record: 147-107.

Losses by 40+ pts: 34 (13.4% of all games played).

We have lost 4 of our last 5 games at Subi by 40+ pts (80%).

Rd 19, 2016: 90 pts, rd 20: 46 pts, rd 21: 72 pts and rd 1, 2017: 42 points.


Since the start of last season at Subiaco

We are 3-10.

Losses by: 26,33,4,18,38,17,90,46,72 and 42 pts (average 38.6 pts).


Last 10 games anywhere

We are 1-9.

Losses by: 48,32,17,24,90,46,72,92 and 42 pts (average 51.4 pts).



This is not ideal.

Keep fiddling Nero. I'm sure the fire will go out eventually.

In what universe do those numbers prove that we're going backwards? You may as well argue that the Doggies went backwards in their quest for a premiership after Year 2 of their rebuild because, after winning 8 games in Year 2, they only won 7 games in Year 3 and ended up with a worse percentage. All those shock-horror numbers you posted prove only one thing: that we're crap. That conclusion is easily reached by simple observation. You needn't have gone to all that trouble.

It's impossible to have a balanced perspective on where we stand without comparing our performance since our rebuild began in 2016 with the trajectory followed by other rebuilding teams that went on to win a flag.

Take the case of the Dogs and the Hawks. The Dogs commenced their rebuild in 2012 (when McCartney was brought in to do the job). The Hawks commenced theirs in 2005 (when Clarko was brought in for that purpose). The Hawks' case is a little different though because by the time Clarko started in 2005 the recruiters had already gone a long way towards putting together a premiership-quality list. There was a core of battle-hardened stars - Luke Hodge, Sam Mitchell, Shane Crawford, Trent Croad, Chance Bateman and Brad Sewell - to which the firepower of Roughhead, Franklin and Lewis were added in 2004 with picks 2,5 and 7.

So - How does our record compare with the Dogs and the Hawks at a similar stage in their rebuilds?

Year 1

We finished 4th last - 4W-18L (percentage: 74.28)
Dogs finished 4th last - 5W-17L (percentage: 67.01)
Hawks finished 3rd last - 5W-17L (percentage: 82.18)

We lost by 41+ points 7 times .........................(random number taken from your post)
Dogs lost by 41+ points 10 times
Hawks lost by 41+ points 8 times

We scored 90+ 4 times and conceded 90+ 13 times .........(random number taken from your post)
Dogs scored 90+ 3 times and conceded 90+ 16 times
Hawks scored 90+ 6 times and conceded 90+ 16 times

Year 2 against previous year's losing preliminary finalists

Freo lost to Geelong by 42 points (73-115) at Subi
Dogs lost to Adelaide by 52 points (28-80) at AAMI
Dogs lost to Collingwood by 34 points (65-99) at Etihad
Hawks lost to StKilda by 70 points (55-125) at Etihad
Hawks lost to Adelaide by 36 points (73-109) at AAMI

This is not ideal.

Keep fiddling Nero. I'm sure the fire will go out eventually.

Seems a reasonable conclusion.

 

[igon value]

Excuse me while I melt about this melt -


In what universe do those numbers prove that we're going backwards? You may as well argue that the Doggies went backwards in their quest for a premiership after Year 2 of their rebuild because, after winning 8 games in Year 2, they only won 7 games in Year 3 and ended up with a worse percentage. All those shock-horror numbers you posted prove only one thing: that we're crap. That conclusion is easily reached by simple observation. You needn't have gone to all that trouble.

It's impossible to have a balanced perspective on where we stand without comparing our performance since our rebuild began in 2016 with the trajectory followed by other rebuilding teams that went on to win a flag.

Take the case of the Dogs and the Hawks. The Dogs commenced their rebuild in 2012 (when McCartney was brought in to do the job). The Hawks commenced theirs in 2005 (when Clarko was brought in for that purpose). The Hawks' case is a little different though because by the time Clarko started in 2005 the recruiters had already gone a long way towards putting together a premiership-quality list. There was a core of battle-hardened stars - Luke Hodge, Sam Mitchell, Shane Crawford, Trent Croad, Chance Bateman and Brad Sewell - to which the firepower of Roughhead, Franklin and Lewis were added in 2004 with picks 2,5 and 7.

So - How does our record compare with the Dogs and the Hawks at a similar stage in their rebuilds?

Year 1

We finished 4th last - 4W-18L (percentage: 74.28)
Dogs finished 4th last - 5W-17L (percentage: 67.01)
Hawks finished 3rd last - 5W-17L (percentage: 82.18)

We lost by 41+ points 7 times .........................(random number taken from your post)
Dogs lost by 41+ points 10 times
Hawks lost by 41+ points 8 times

We scored 90+ 4 times and conceded 90+ 13 times .........(random number taken from your post)
Dogs scored 90+ 3 times and conceded 90+ 16 times
Hawks scored 90+ 6 times and conceded 90+ 16 times

Year 2 against previous year's losing preliminary finalists

Freo lost to Geelong by 42 points (73-115) at Subi
Dogs lost to Adelaide by 52 points (28-80) at AAMI
Dogs lost to Collingwood by 34 points (65-99) at Etihad
Hawks lost to StKilda by 70 points (55-125) at Etihad
Hawks lost to Adelaide by 36 points (73-109) at AAMI



Seems a reasonable conclusion.

What were the age profiles for the Dogs and Hawks during said rebuilds?