The Midfield Question

[Big Bryza]

So when Levi is good to go I'm certain he is in our 22. But, when he is, we will have Adams, Crisp and Levi all playing inside mid roles. That's absolutely 1 too many considering all of their disposal is only ok at best. Adams' is downright bad. Can we have 3 inside mids with average disposal all in our centre square? Does Crisp move to half back or forward?

It doesn't look good having only pendles and sidebottom as elite users, lets all cut the sh*t, Swannys disposal is appalling too.

No it's not. Adams has improved his disposal rapidly this year. The only thing he will never be is a penetrating kick.

Crisp is a good kick, the 'He has poor skills' stuff has stuck since we traded for him. He's a good user, has clean hands, strong overhead and kicks clutch goals. Not sure what else we want from him.

Greenwood is going to be a gem for us in the 2nd half of the year. Just watch.

Also you need 9-10 guys pushing through the middle during a game. Plenty of room for all 3 of them.

Lastly, Swanny is Swanny. We know what we'll get from him. He's a match winner at best and is playing close to his best footy in a slightly different role for the team this season. Loving him and Pendles pushing forward and kicking goals.

 

[TradeDraft]

No it's not. Adams has improved his disposal rapidly this year. The only thing he will never be is a penetrating kick.

Crisp is a good kick, the 'He has poor skills' stuff has stuck since we traded for him. He's a good user, has clean hands, strong overhead and kicks clutch goals. Not sure what else we want from him.

Greenwood is going to be a gem for us in the 2nd half of the year. Just watch.

Also you need 9-10 guys pushing through the middle during a game. Plenty of room for all 3 of them.

Lastly, Swanny is Swanny. We know what we'll get from him. He's a match winner at best and is playing close to his best footy in a slightly different role for the team this season. Loving him and Pendles pushing forward and kicking goals.

Agree - Adams kicking has Improved. He hardly ever has any Massive Clangers like he did last year.

Adams is playing Luke Ball role very well and I can argue he has been as good as Ball was

 

[Bard]

Agree - Adams kicking has Improved. He hardly ever has any Massive Clangers like he did last year.

Adams is playing Luke Ball role very well and I can argue he has been as good as Ball was

Yeah he's still a bit off but based on the improvement we've seen I'm pretty confident his disposal can reach the same level as Ball's, and his possession numbers will definitely surpass it by a decent amount.

 

[TradeDraft]

Yeah he's still a bit off but based on the improvement we've seen I'm pretty confident his disposal can reach the same level as Ball's, and his possession numbers will definitely surpass it by a decent amount.

Adam’s is Averaging 8 more touches a game then Ball did last year.

Ball was not a great kick but he seemed to be a smart user of it and that is what Adams has shown he is Improving in

 

[top4]

Its amazing what a couple of comments in the media can do for a players reputation.

Crisp is going at just over 70% which is better than the likes of Hannebery, Rioli, Hill just to name a few.

 

[Hagla]

Its amazing what a couple of comments in the media can do for a players reputation.

Crisp is going at just over 70% which is better than the likes of Hannebery, Rioli, Hill just to name a few.

If you are saying the media had us believing he was a poor kick before we got him to Collingwood then that's probably true. But I think most people here can see that he's a good kick without needing the media to tell us he is.

 

[UpTheMags]

No it's not. Adams has improved his disposal rapidly this year. The only thing he will never be is a penetrating kick.

Crisp is a good kick, the 'He has poor skills' stuff has stuck since we traded for him. He's a good user, has clean hands, strong overhead and kicks clutch goals. Not sure what else we want from him.

Greenwood is going to be a gem for us in the 2nd half of the year. Just watch.

Also you need 9-10 guys pushing through the middle during a game. Plenty of room for all 3 of them.

Lastly, Swanny is Swanny. We know what we'll get from him. He's a match winner at best and is playing close to his best footy in a slightly different role for the team this season. Loving him and Pendles pushing forward and kicking goals.

let me make some things clear. take your collingwood goggles off. crisp CAN kick. i said he is SLIGHTLY BELOW AFL AVERAGE for use. do u understand the difference between being able to kick a footy and being a good user? adams disposal is <60% this year and thats INCLUDING his good handpassing. if you think he can use the footy well youre actually dreaming.

people cant seem to separate being ABLE to kick a footy from being a good user. its such a rudimentary thing to be able to understand. u dont want 4 of your 6 midfielders being below average users.. its so simple

 

[Hagla]

let me make some things clear. take your collingwood goggles off. crisp CAN kick. i said he is SLIGHTLY BELOW AFL AVERAGE for use. do u understand the difference between being able to kick a footy and being a good user? adams disposal is <60% this year and thats INCLUDING his good handpassing. if you think he can use the footy well youre actually dreaming.

people cant seem to separate being ABLE to kick a footy from being a good user. its such a rudimentary thing to be able to understand. u dont want 4 of your 6 midfielders being below average users.. its so simple

Without looking at any stats I would say Crisp is a good user in space. I feel comfortable when I see Crisp with the ball. I'd rather it in his hands than most others on our team. I'd imagine most of his ineffective disposals are from rushed kicks or handballs in tight situations which is to be expected and should improve with experience.

 

[Bard]

let me make some things clear. take your collingwood goggles off. crisp CAN kick. i said he is SLIGHTLY BELOW AFL AVERAGE for use. do u understand the difference between being able to kick a footy and being a good user? adams disposal is <60% this year and thats INCLUDING his good handpassing. if you think he can use the footy well youre actually dreaming.

people cant seem to separate being ABLE to kick a footy from being a good user. its such a rudimentary thing to be able to understand. u dont want 4 of your 6 midfielders being below average users.. its so simple

He literally didn't even say Adams is a good kick LOL. Just said it's getting better. Maybe you should take your rose-tinted glasses off and see that it has. As for Crisp, he has a penetrating kick but I agree it also would not be in the category of 'good', much like Dayne Beams' or Dane Swan's wouldn't, but it gets the job done.

 

[good4footy]

If we've got midfield depth we'll in the top 4 in 5 weeks.

I will use the Lions as an example to refute your post. We have deficiencies outside our midfield that will determine where we finish this year.

 

[DrDavoren]

There's no need to argue - Adams is definitely producing Ball type output this year, maybe even a little more in other areas.

 

[MarkT2]

No it's not. Adams has improved his disposal rapidly this year..

No he hasn't. In fact he's had games where it has been terrible including when we've won well. It's not pressure it is skill. He was better than usual last week.

 

[MarkT2]

I will use the Lions as an example to refute your post. We have deficiencies outside our midfield that will determine where we finish this year.

Lions do not have midfield depth. Yes we have some other shortcomings but when our best mids are not in the guts we get hammered. I don't think we finish to 4 anyway but the next few weeks will show us where we are.

 

[good4footy]

Lions do not have midfield depth. Yes we have some other shortcomings but when our best mids are not in the guts we get hammered. I don't think we finish to 4 anyway but the next few weeks will show us where we are.

We will have to disagree on the mid field depth of the Lions but the next 4 weeks will show us where most of us think we are - somewhere around 8th - 10th spot.

Our midfield is the least of our worries and not the reason we will miss out on top 4

 

[Old Spice]

If you are saying the media had us believing he was a poor kick before we got him to Collingwood then that's probably true. But I think most people here can see that he's a good kick without needing the media to tell us he is.

That media I think can be shrunk down to Jonathon Brown saying he was an average kick but I don't know if he was the best judge.

 

[Old Spice]

No he hasn't. In fact he's had games where it has been terrible including when we've won well. It's not pressure it is skill. He was better than usual last week.

No, Adams definitely has improved his kicking, largely through decision making. It is much better than it was whatever the stats may say.

 

[Old Spice]

We have to remember that stats are logged by humans in footy, not some pure algorithm, which has its own issues anyway. Like umpiring decisions, they are not pure objective recordings you can bank on but questions of human judgment.

If Adams was kicking poorly this year we'd have a million posters all over him like a rash as they were previously. I don't know if his inside handballs are being intercepted, or his long kicks are getting more harshly marked by Champion Data people but my eyes tell me a different story.

 

[Old Spice]

However, that doesn't mean that I necessarily disagree with the thread topic concerns. I think that Greenwood, Crisp and Adams are all somewhat sameish in what they offer, albeit I think Crisp could go to a wing, HB or float forward.

The question though, then becomes does he offers better value in those positions than other players in the squad in the positions he would inhabit if not in the centre? Perhaps? This year we'll see what the best mix is.

 

[TradeDraft]

No he hasn't. In fact he's had games where it has been terrible including when we've won well. It's not pressure it is skill. He was better than usual last week.

So why does he keep getting Games in the AFL IF he is Total Hack

 

[mike123]

Against GWS I remember Adams setting up our first two goals with lace out pasess in the forward line.

 

[TradeDraft]

Against GWS I remember Adams setting up our first two goals with lace out pasess in the forward line.

Because he Lowered his Eyes and did not just Bomb Long

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Crisp is in no way an inside mid. So don't stress.

 

[jackcass]

I will use the Lions as an example to refute your post. We have deficiencies outside our midfield that will determine where we finish this year.

Even our midfield is far from perfect, even with depth.

 

[MeisterBot]

Adams is playing more to his limitations and isn't trying too hard to make the perfect pass like last year. The result is more consistent kicking. What I didn't like about him last year was that he'd go for low percentage kicks that would be damaging if they came off, then screwed up the execution and butchered it. He's much better this year about being instinctive and going for safer options. So he's not a liability anymore based on that. That said, it doesn't take much to fall into old habits and he may butcher a few now and again. For mine, he falls in the Williams and Blair category of average ball users who aren't a liability if they play within their limits.

The frustrating thing about it is that Adams can have stellar vision up the field and unlike Blair or Williams, can kick the ball low and flat. So he has the ability to be a damaging kick. Though not the same kind of player, his kicking reminds me a little of Wellingham when he was here.

As fitting in Greenwood into the equation, aside from allowing Pendles and Swan to play more on the wing or the flanks as I mentioned before, it simply means De Goey goes back to the VFL and develop a bit more now that he's had a taste of it. We all know Jordan shows a lot, but he's still some way away from being best 22. Greenwood, Adams and Crisp can all fit into the team without hassle.

 

[TradeDraft]

Adams is playing more to his limitations and isn't trying too hard to make the perfect pass like last year. The result is more consistent kicking. What I didn't like about him last year was that he'd go for low percentage kicks that would be damaging if they came off, then screwed up the execution and butchered it. He's much better this year about being instinctive and going for safer options. So he's not a liability anymore based on that. That said, it doesn't take much to fall into old habits and he may butcher a few now and again. For mine, he falls in the Williams and Blair category of average ball users who aren't a liability if they play within their limits.

The frustrating thing about it is that Adams can have stellar vision up the field and unlike Blair or Williams, can kick the ball low and flat. So he has the ability to be a damaging kick. Though not the same kind of player, his kicking reminds me a little of Wellingham when he was here.

As fitting in Greenwood into the equation, aside from allowing Pendles and Swan to play more on the wing or the flanks as I mentioned before, it simply means De Goey goes back to the VFL and develop a bit more now that he's had a taste of it. We all know Jordan shows a lot, but he's still some way away from being best 22. Greenwood, Adams and Crisp can all fit into the team without hassle.

Adams keeps improving so I doubt he reached his peak yet