Autopsy The Midfield

dajesmac

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so we're not stuttering now?? or have been for the last 5 years!? you list many players there along with attributes sorely missing from the players we never drop ie. PRIDDIS and Gaff.. and we KNOW they can't do these things and never will. Yet you wonder about the unknown playing young players? Like it's too risky?
Weird thing to take away from my post. I didn't say anything about not wanting to play them because it's risky. I'm all for these guys getting more opportunity. Specifically, Karpany and Venables in the short term.

It was more to illustrate the fact that we don't have a whole lot to be excited about coming from below. I'm not writing the kids off, but on the balance of probabilities that future midfield doesn't project as being a lot better than the one we have now. With this in mind, I'd suggest the midfield rebuild still needs attention, although a KPF should also be a priority.
 

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domo

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Weird thing to take away from my post. I didn't say anything about not wanting to play them because it's risky. I'm all for these guys getting more opportunity. Specifically, Karpany and Venables in the short term.

It was more to illustrate the fact that we don't have a whole lot to be excited about coming from below. I'm not writing the kids off, but on the balance of probabilities that future midfield doesn't project as being a lot better than the one we have now. With this in mind, I'd suggest the midfield rebuild still needs attention, although a KPF should also be a priority.
sorry, I don't mean to seem overly-critical of your post - I'm down with your thinking overall. You seem to come to the conclusion still that we can't get rid of eg. Gaff or Priddis, because we'll suffer too much in the short term giving the young guys a go?
 

dajesmac

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sorry, I don't mean to seem overly-critical of your post - I'm down with your thinking overall. You seem to come to the conclusion still that we can't get rid of eg. Gaff or Priddis, because we'll suffer too much in the short term giving the young guys a go?
Oh, no worries maybe I read your post in the wrong tone.

Gaff is good enough to stay in the side long term on merit. He is having a poor year but he good outweighs the bad.

Priddis has been struggling this year and I'm of the thinking that he should call it a day at the end of the year. I think with our current midfield depth, having him and Mitchell go at once would see us falter in the short term before improving. That being said, I'd like to see some of the younger mids given opportunity so that they can develop. So long story short, we would get worse in the short term but giving the kids a go would be beneficial in the medium term.

To some extent we have done this with Duggan who we've persisted with probably against merit. That being said It should put us in better stead for when we lose Pritchell (hopefully).

Karpany should have been retained this week and I'm annoyed that he wasn't.
 

WCErevival

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never understand the ebert hate. Whenever hes brought up the same people who defend priddis to the ends of the earth slam him for shit disposal???

Like wtf - what sort of parallel universe are we in here - do you have any idea of the cognitive dissonance you need to posess to slag his disposal whilst defending priddis'?

He has a few things he does a lot better than priddis - can overhead mark well, defensively solid - can chase, has some pace, can kick a ball 50m.

Has a few things he doesnt do as well - doesnt get as much of it.

Id suggest that if you overlook champion data stats and do a ball by ball analysis of his game he would have a superior de.
I dont think its that they think Ebert's disposal is worse or anything it's just before this year he hasn't been much better than an average player. It's not like we let Dangerfield walk out. I wouldn't say he has pace either.
 

avishka5

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Oh, no worries maybe I read your post in the wrong tone.

Gaff is good enough to stay in the side long term on merit. He is having a poor year but he good outweighs the bad.

Priddis has been struggling this year and I'm of the thinking that he should call it a day at the end of the year. I think with our current midfield depth, having him and Mitchell go at once would see us falter in the short term before improving. That being said, I'd like to see some of the younger mids given opportunity so that they can develop. So long story short, we would get worse in the short term but giving the kids a go would be beneficial in the medium term.

To some extent we have done this with Duggan who we've persisted with probably against merit. That being said It should put us in better stead for when we lose Pritchell (hopefully).

Karpany should have been retained this week and I'm annoyed that he wasn't.
agree re Gaff. His hard running and link up work is still essential in todays game. Good teams have a couple of Gaff types but unfortunatly we have one. His average kicking has probably let him down immensly. Another thing about Gaff is that being a pure outside player means that he still relies on our inside mids to win the contested ball to have really positive impact, he gets the ball due to pure workrate but his impact will depend on whether our inside players are doing their job or not.
 

Winky

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It's a bit ridiculous that we opt for a slower, more inside midfield composition and yet are one of the worst sides in the league for clearances and contested possessions. I'm not sure how much of that is owed to lack of personnel or if it's a structures issue. Priddis, Sheed, Shuey and Redden are all reasonable clearance players in their own right (Redden moreso before joining WC) and yet we continually get smashed in these stats.

On the other hand, our outside mids have been struggling too. Gaff is a proven quality mid but for whatever reason has lacked his usual impact this season. Masten has stood up to some extent but remains inherently limited, Jetta has been poor despite one very good performance and Duggan really has struggled to have much of a positive net impact in any game he's played.

Our medium term midfield prospects remain bleak and IMO it needs a bit of a reboot. Going forward, Shuey, Gaff and Sheed are probably the only midfielders we can be relatively confident about. Other than that:

Elliot Yeo: Has definite midfield potential but at this rate it appears he will remain a rebounding defender rotating through the guts.
Jack Redden: Horrible footballer.
Liam Duggan: Was a promising junior but has serious question marks on his game - at best he currently projects to become a role-playing wingman/flanker.
Luke Partington: A high production mid who needs to round out his game better to make it at the next level. Could become a good player but lacks standout qualities and projects more as a role playing small mid rather than a genuine prime mover.
Daniel Venables: Has genuine star potential. A well rounded midfielder with a strong contested game - can take an overhead mark, kicks goals and also possesses speed and class. Very composed player and IMO is a safe bet to be a good AFL mid at the very least. He's yet to prove he can sustain the production to be a full time midfielder long term but he's had no real opportunity to develop/prove this.
Jackson Nelson: Has some midfield potential but seems likely to remain in his defensive role for the medium term.
Kurt Mutimer: Has developed into a genuine inside grunt. Plays to a reasonably high standard for EP particularly given he is a 19 year old mid. Seems to have poise and composure on the outside and has a penetrating and relatively accurate left boot. Performed relatively well in an unknown HFF flank role at AFL level and should be very happy with us own progress to date. Probably lacks composure on the inside and tends to be a bit of a 'hack it' mid but this will come with time. It's hard to assess his potential accurately but I am comfortable in suggesting he will be a solid AFL midfielder going forward.
Malcolm Karpany: Has the skillset but seems unlikely to ever have the production of an AFL mid. Hopefully he can carve out a career as a HFF with stints on the ball.
Tom Cole: A bit of an unknown quantity who hasn't really built on a promising first season. Plays as a defender for East Perth but could end up being developed as an outside midfielder. Has above average pace and skills. Will be interesting to follow his development.
Josh Rotham: An oversized back flanker who excellent skills by hand and foot and possesses genuine speed. Very light frame but if developed properly I think could become a very damaging wingman. One to watch for the future for sure.
Jordan Snadden: Haven't seen much of Snadden but it seems like he possesses some definite AFL qualities. Seems like a long shot to make it.

Overall, it appears questionable that we will be able to replace Priddis and Mitchell without experiencing a definite stutter. With a lack of quality mids requesting trades to Perth I think the midfield needs to remain a draft focus (along with a KPF). The league is littered with quality WA mids we could try and lure home in the future but they will cost a premium (Acres, SPP, J.Martin) and so in the mean time there needs to be a continued push to improve the talent coming in from below.
You couldn't do worse than Priddis. He has zero hurt factor for the opposition. It doesn't matter that he reads the play OK. I would rather have someone who maybe didn't get the ball as much but could put pressure on opposition midfielders to stop their easy delivery into the forward line. But for GC turnovers when under no pressure, WCE would have been soundly beaten today.
 

frenchconnection

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Oh, no worries maybe I read your post in the wrong tone.

Gaff is good enough to stay in the side long term on merit. He is having a poor year but he good outweighs the bad.

Priddis has been struggling this year and I'm of the thinking that he should call it a day at the end of the year. I think with our current midfield depth, having him and Mitchell go at once would see us falter in the short term before improving. That being said, I'd like to see some of the younger mids given opportunity so that they can develop. So long story short, we would get worse in the short term but giving the kids a go would be beneficial in the medium term.

To some extent we have done this with Duggan who we've persisted with probably against merit. That being said It should put us in better stead for when we lose Pritchell (hopefully).

Karpany should have been retained this week and I'm annoyed that he wasn't.
I'm surprised that Duggan has regressed the way he has - before his knee injury he was looking very promising. I think he has lost confidence so needs to go back to the 2s until he improves.
 

wce4premiership

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Sad to see him look backwards at every opportunity, however I think today it had a lot to do with poor forward structure. Would love him to back himself and never handball and miss a target again. 2 weeks in a row he's been responsible for a turnover in the middle that has been very costly. He has no confidence in his ability, or knowledge in his current role.

Would like to see some changes soon. Could benefit from being the main man at EP for a fortnight to remember what it's like to kick the ball and spot up options other than a shitty release handball that's overcooking a chain of possession anyway.
 

frenchconnection

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Sad to see him look backwards at every opportunity, however I think today it had a lot to do with poor forward structure. Would love him to back himself and never handball and miss a target again. 2 weeks in a row he's been responsible for a turnover in the middle that has been very costly. He has no confidence in his ability, or knowledge in his current role.

Would like to see some changes soon. Could benefit from being the main man at EP for a fortnight to remember what it's like to kick the ball and spot up options other than a shitty release handball that's overcooking a chain of possession anyway.
Heard somebody make the comment that it appears the team is being over-coached and not being allowed to play on instinct - they are too busy trying to play to the structures being implemented by the coaching staff. Wouldn't be surprised if this is true?
 

Prochard123

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Naitanui will be back towards the end of the year right?

If so, probably round 21/22 to warm him up for finals?

If he's back early and ready to fire then half ur issues will be fixed
 

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wce4premiership

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Heard somebody make the comment that it appears the team is being over-coached and not being allowed to play on instinct - they are too busy trying to play to the structures being implemented by the coaching staff. Wouldn't be surprised if this is true?
Some players need to be individually coached in regards to giving them a set role to benefit the team. Someone like Priddis (look for release handballs to runners), Naitanui/Ruckman (in regards to being a kick ahead of the play, on the wing for example), Hutchings (tag so and so) and I think the defensive structure as a whole needs to be drilled in.

Players like Jetta, Shuey and Mitchell for example I think can/should basically play on instinct and do what they think is best (on offence). Young kids will sometimes try too hard to play to a gameplan.
 

Galileo9

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Heard somebody make the comment that it appears the team is being over-coached and not being allowed to play on instinct - they are too busy trying to play to the structures being implemented by the coaching staff. Wouldn't be surprised if this is true?
Haha which is 100% of all clubs. U think players should run around like chooks without heads? After all that's instinct.

How do u appear overcoached? Is there a look and does it involve a beard, long hair or shaved armpits?
 

mattyc75

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Sheed to me looks like he is at a stage where he could consistently get 22-25 possessions a game when played on ball. Sure he doesn't have the best fitness and can go missing a bit but he can still contribute on the outside. Sheed is pure silk and his grunt work has improved vastly IMO and while we got dominated he had a team high 7 clearances while renowned clearance players like priddis and mitchell didnt hold up their bargain. Every game sheed isnt used as main on baller, the more he is being wasted.
Sheed is OK,but he is very far from being pure silk

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EagleShore

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Naitanui will be back towards the end of the year right?

If so, probably round 21/22 to warm him up for finals?

If he's back early and ready to fire then half ur issues will be wallpapered over
FTFY.

The Naitanui wallpaper will take a few months to stick after he returns IMO.

Big man who jumps all day is going to take some time to get back to anywhere near his best after the ACL.


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avishka5

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We need to be a bit innovative this off season. Maybe develop Nelson/Cole and Watson to become mids. Change Duggan back into a half back flanker.
 

swingdog

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FTFY.

The Naitanui wallpaper will take a few months to stick after he returns IMO.

Big man who jumps all day is going to take some time to get back to anywhere near his best after the ACL.


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Would actually suggest he doesn't ruck this year and let his knee fully heal. Let Lycett do it and have NN start in the centre in place of Priddis.
 

Biggie

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Hickmott is this seasons midfield coach is he not?

Any blame to thrown his way, or do we think it's purely a cattle issue?
 

Woobla Stainz

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Hickmott is this seasons midfield coach is he not?

Any blame to thrown his way, or do we think it's purely a cattle issue?
Watched an interview of him a few weeks ago was left very uninspired he could barely get the standard clichés right doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed and he wasn't even answering the questions properly even the panel members we're looking at each other like WTF? And had to extrapolate his answer like so what your saying is.....
Just tried to repeat Simmos stupid standard responses and offered no insight, we lacked intent, we need to improve, we need to get better, we need more from our leaders.... no shit sherlock!!! Seems bloody usless. Dont think he has played the game too, need a real bloody mid coach!!
 

mattyc75

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We need to be a bit innovative this off season. Maybe develop Nelson/Cole and Watson to become mids. Change Duggan back into a half back flanker.
Cole nelson,watson and duggan were all back flankers when drafted.

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mattyc75

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Watched an interview of him a few weeks ago was left very uninspired he could barely get the standard clichés right doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed and he wasn't even answering the questions properly even the panel members we're looking at each other like WTF? And had to extrapolate his answer like so what your saying is.....
Just tried to repeat Simmos stupid standard responses and offered no insight, we lacked intent, we need to improve, we need to get better, we need more from our leaders.... no shit sherlock!!! Seems bloody usless. Dont think he has played the game too, need a real bloody mid coach!!
At training he seems well respected,assertive and approachable

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