Autopsy The Midfield

avishka5

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Cole nelson,watson and duggan were all back flankers when drafted.

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That's why I said be innovative. If it doesn't work we can change them back. Cole played midfield in his last year a bit. Nelson had good games in the middle for ep. If it doesn't work then move them back.
 

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ziad

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That's why I said be innovative. If it doesn't work we can change them back. Cole played midfield in his last year a bit. Nelson had good games in the middle for ep. If it doesn't work then move them back.
Nelson has done enough to show he is at best a C grade flanker - so move on from that romantic notion
 

WCEbrody

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Rightly or Wrongly there is going to be a heap of pressure on Venables once he breaks into the side.
 

mattyc75

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well the secret is out.

Our best midfielder is out all season. Of the others I would keep Mitchell, Yoe and Shuey -the others are a hand break on success.
I would keep gaff too.he's not having a great run but if we got rid of him we would be in full rebuild mode.

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Woobla Stainz

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At training he seems well respected,assertive and approachable

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He may well be and i don't know much about him that's just how he came across to me.
Did you see that interview?

Also the midfields performance and structures speak for them selves they had all off season to work on a plan with out NicNat and its not like our rucks have been absolutely destroyed they have competed well imo. But our clearances are bloody horrible.
 

EagleShore

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Hickmott is this seasons midfield coach is he not?

Any blame to thrown his way, or do we think it's purely a cattle issue?
Like most things in life, football performance, as measured by wins/losses/percentage/ladder position, is a function of a complex system.

Poor outcomes warrant an analysis of that system.

One of the factors contributing to poor outcomes at West Coast this year, and indeed in previous years, IMO is player talent - we have too many midfielders in particular who seem to be good at one or two aspects of the game but poor in a range of others (eg. Slow inside player who may tackle well in close and sometimes get good hands out but is not damaging by foot and is unable to apply defensive pressure during opposition transition; or a mid who runs all day amd kicks okay inside 50 but applies weak tackles and can't take a contested mark or get a contested ball).

Another factor is the structure which this year moreso than 2016 seems to be stifling player instinct and leading to slow and reactive play.

Other factors are coaching and talent development. Unfortunately for most of us, these are difficult to get a direct read on because they're not visibly seen each week like the players and game structures are.

We as fans rely on patterns to decide on the relative strengths and weaknesses of these things.

Sometimes people latch onto one factor and decide that it is or was above all else the deciding thing in success or failure eg. Pyke created the web and was singlehandedly responsible for our relative success in 2015

It's always a little from column A and a little from column B...and C etc.

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Glenno18

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I'd trade Gaff back to a Vic club for a mid with speed, retire Priddis and move mids with speed onto the ball. There's no point being able to run all day at medium pace only in todays AFL. It's more like the NBA where points in transition are critical. Richmond, Essendon and St Kilda all blitzed us on the turnover. Our slow AF mids aren't helped by the lack of pressure from our forwards but that's for another thread
 

porttoport

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Our drafting has been atrocious for years

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I posted this from yesterday's Australian somewhere in BF yesterday but it sure supports your call on draft short comings

West Coast are in danger of becoming a team nowhere.

In airline terms, they are close to having a “stick shaker” experience, where a warning system that causes the control stick to vibrate is activated, alerting the pilot that his plane could enter a “stall” condition. It’s not good.

It was only 20 months ago that they played in a grand final. But the reality is West Coast look every chance to stagnate, or even slip backwards, because they have failed to rejuvenate their list, and that could cost them dearly as early as next year or the year after that if the situation goes unchecked.

They should remain thereabouts this season, and because of their favourable home-ground advantage — only broken this year by the Giants last weekend — they’ll probably play finals. However, in what is shaping as a wide open contest behind Adelaide and GWS, they are already struggling to keep pace.

Today’s contest against Gold Coast at Metricon Stadium might be a more even affair than most expect. Less than a month ago the Suns, at home, were too quick for Geelong and they should again have that speed advantage.

Following the Eagles’ poor loss to Hawthorn at the MCG in round five, coach Adam Simpson said: “The Hawks were just relentless all day and we couldn’t sustain it. Even when our intent was right we looked fumbly, from our senior players down to our kids.” Hang on, what kids?

After being thrashed by Essendon in round nine, Simpson mentioned that he would have a look at how the club’s “second-tier” players were progressing after another dismal away performance. What second-tier players?

West Coast have become a halfway house for old players.

The Eagles’ recruiting of rising 35-year-olds Sam Mitchell and Drew Petrie does little for the development of young players to take the club to a higher level over the next five years.

The club and their blinkered fans will argue that they have won six of their first 10 games and are only one win behind where they were at the corresponding time last year before winning 16 home-and-away matches, one less than minor premiers Sydney.

The glaring problem is that there is a lack of promising youth coming up behind seasoned players, who have been topped up by older players again. West Coast’s plight can best be summed up by some alarming facts.

Since the start of 2012, they have won the least amount of rising star nominations of any club.

Their two nominations have been Dom Sheed in 2015 and Tom Barrass last year, and defender Barrass has not been selected for the past two weeks. That’s two nominations over the past 125 rounds.

In the 5½ seasons, the Giants understandably have the most (16), followed by Adelaide (10), the Western Bulldogs (10) and Melbourne, with nine. Hawthorn, even through a golden period of four grand finals and three premierships, have had five players nominated.

Since the start of 2016, West Coast have played only three debutants — Tommy Cole and Malcolm Karpany last year and Kurt Mutimer this year, — and it would be fair to say they have only plodded, though left-footer Karpany last week showed some promise in his second game since being the 31st overall choice in the 2013 national draft. But it was not enough for Simpson to retain him this weekend. Sydney played seven debutants in a grand final year last season and have already played another six this season. They may not be travelling that well at the moment, but their future appears to be in good shape.

Geelong, who are sitting third, have played seven fresh faces since the start of last season, including five debutants this year. Of that five, three have played in 23 of a possible 33 games.

Top-of-the-ladder Adelaide have played five newcomers in the same period, with the injured Mitch McGovern and this week’s rising star nomination Wayne Milera clearly the pick of their debutants.

The Eagles have also been let down by the progress of their top two picks in the past three national drafts, especially in comparison to other clubs who have been around the same mark as West Coast in recent years.

While it may be a little early to judge last year’s first two picks — Daniel Venables (selection No 13) and Josh Rotham (37) who have yet to play a senior game — early selections at other clubs have already made a huge impression.

Geelong teenager Brandan Parfitt (26) played every game and won a rising star nomination before badly damaging his hamstring in round six. New teammate Tom Stewart (40) has played 10 games.

Sydney’s first two selections — Oliver Florent (11) and Will Hayward (21) — have played 15 games between them. Hayward could be a star in the making.

The Eagles first two selections over the past three drafts have played a combined 35 games, with Liam Duggan, the club’s first pick in the 2014 draft at No 11 overall, playing 32 of them. Of the others, only Cole (two games) and Tom Lamb (one) have played.

Geelong, with only one pick inside the top 25 in the past three years of the national draft, have got 90 games out of their six top-two picks in that period, with Parfitt, Stewart, Sam Menegola (pick No 66 in 2015) and Nakia Cockatoo, the 10th overall pick in 2014 — all having played at senior level this year.

From the same three drafts, five of the six players taken by the Swans with their first two selections, have played a combined 99 games.

West Coast must make some tough decisions this year, especially on veterans Matt Priddis (32) and Mark LeCras (30), who are both coming out of contract. The two have been influential players — Priddis a Brownlow medallist and LeCras, an All-Australian and best-and-fairest winner in 2010 — but are now looking slow and wobbly, particularly on the road.

Someone’s taken their eye off the ball. So who is responsible for a list that appears to be on the verge of quickly falling into mediocrity? Long standing and highly-respected chief executive Trevor Nisbett has always kept his finger on the pulse of his football department, but he’s been flat out for some time organising a new training and administration headquarters and lobbying for the best deal at Perth’s new 60,000-seat stadium.

Simpson is a senior coach with a disproportionate say in what goes on internally at West Coast. And the club’s general manager of football is Craig Vozzo. Under their watch, they brought in Jack Redden from Brisbane, Mitchell and Petrie, and now there is talk of interest in Gold Coast’s Brandon Matera. Please.

There is no time for sentiment in football, only the four points on offer every week. The eventual return of Nic Naitanui will take the Eagles a long way, but the warning signs are there. The “stick shaker” is ready to go off and is anybody at the controls?

Greg Denham can be heard on SEN (1116am) radio on Hungry For Sport on Monday and Thursday between 9-10am.


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mattyc75

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I'd trade Gaff back to a Vic club for a mid with speed, retire Priddis and move mids with speed onto the ball. There's no point being able to run all day at medium pace only in todays AFL. It's more like the NBA where points in transition are critical. Richmond, Essendon and St Kilda all blitzed us on the turnover. Our slow AF mids aren't helped by the lack of pressure from our forwards but that's for another thread
Lack of forward pressure,Kennedy Cripps and hill all go OK in that dept and darling at least looks like he's trying just enough to get close to the guy with the ball

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Feeling Groovy

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Lack of forward pressure,Kennedy Cripps and hill all go OK in that dept and darling at least looks like he's trying just enough to get close to the guy with the ball
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I like Hill but his defensive pressure is somewhat overrated because it is generally ineffective. His tackles rarely stick and he doesn't put his body behind them. That said, he tries to defend at least, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for some in the team.
 

ziad

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I'd trade Gaff back to a Vic club for a mid with speed, retire Priddis and move mids with speed onto the ball. There's no point being able to run all day at medium pace only in todays AFL. It's more like the NBA where points in transition are critical. Richmond, Essendon and St Kilda all blitzed us on the turnover. Our slow AF mids aren't helped by the lack of pressure from our forwards but that's for another thread
Who are these mids with speed you speak of (we are talking fast footballers here)? I see watson thats all and he is raw and injured
 

domo

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I'd trade Gaff back to a Vic club for a mid with speed, retire Priddis and move mids with speed onto the ball. There's no point being able to run all day at medium pace only in todays AFL. It's more like the NBA where points in transition are critical. Richmond, Essendon and St Kilda all blitzed us on the turnover. Our slow AF mids aren't helped by the lack of pressure from our forwards but that's for another thread
we prob missed the boat to trade Gaff a couple of years ago when he was AA. He has fantastic endurance but Gaffy just hasn't gotten any better with his kicking. Has the worst turning circle + no right foot. I dunno how a bloke like him and Priddis can be in the professional system of AFL, play midfield and not train+develop their non preferred side whatsoever.
Nearly all of our forward attacks come from the half back (because we can't win many centre clearances clean) with lot of running transitions going over the back to a break away running forward. Which is the modern game these days too. We do well when the ball doesn't get held up by Priddis or bombed by him and or Gaff. Most all our exciting running play over the past two years or so (incl goal scoring) doesn't include those guys.
So the forwards don't get a chance to do as much pressuring inside 50.
 

frenchconnection

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Great article, posted above ^

Reflects everything I think about us right now.
Yes I agree. Couldn't have said it better myself. Our forward pressure generally is almost non-existent these days when you compare it to 2015. Should have been introducing the players in the 2s to the AFL gradually - bringing in 1 or 2 at a time and give them a block of say 3 games (unless they are woeful of course), then drop them back and give some others a go. There is always an injury or two or lack of form shown by some of the Seniors so it shouldn't have been too hard to do. Simmo appears a bit timid to make changes like this for some reason?? Baffling.
 

wraglesweb

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Things can change around pretty quick if a team has a decent spine.

I'm not too worried just need to start getting drafts right from now on and we should be fine.
 

kranky al

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we prob missed the boat to trade Gaff a couple of years ago when he was AA. He has fantastic endurance but Gaffy just hasn't gotten any better with his kicking. Has the worst turning circle + no right foot. I dunno how a bloke like him and Priddis can be in the professional system of AFL, play midfield and not train+develop their non preferred side whatsoever.
Nearly all of our forward attacks come from the half back (because we can't win many centre clearances clean) with lot of running transitions going over the back to a break away running forward. Which is the modern game these days too. We do well when the ball doesn't get held up by Priddis or bombed by him and or Gaff. Most all our exciting running play over the past two years or so (incl goal scoring) doesn't include those guys.
So the forwards don't get a chance to do as much pressuring inside 50.
I just dont get how you can be a professional at anything and not be fkern good at what you do.

Every job ive ever had ive been fkern good at or if i havnt liked it enough to be good at ive moved on.

Every fkern hobby i have i practise whatever it is till i do it perfectly. Im a fishing tragic and i practise casting so much i can take a rod ive never casted and within half an hour can put a cast within 6 inches over and over and over.

Fkern annoys me seeing players who are paid a fortune that cant execute basic skills - practice more you lazy fkers
 
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The Dodger

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Fkern annoys me seeing players who are paid a fortune that can execute basic skills - practice more you lazy fkers
#thatsnottheirjob

Its the other guys on the team that have to use basic skills and any modicum of foot speed. And its not even their job to know their limitations so they don't say ask for the ball running on to their right hand side when they know they have no right foot and hold all play up the field as they need to switch back to their left even if it means the kick will then be rushed as they have to go back into trouble to do so.
 

West123

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We might not be as far away as we think. Eliott Yeo is 23 years old!!! He's All Australian half back quality, he kicked 3 goals on the weekend, who's to say that by next year he hasn't put all the pieces together and become a Browlow contending goal kick midfielder?

Look at Bulldogs, talented group but not spectacular (half backs are special but midfielders are a good individuals but great group) that get lifted by the Bont. We can put together a good little core with a Shuey/Yeo danger pair (not to mention the most dominant ruckmen) and then we look like guns.
 

avishka5

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We might not be as far away as we think. Eliott Yeo is 23 years old!!! He's All Australian half back quality, he kicked 3 goals on the weekend, who's to say that by next year he hasn't put all the pieces together and become a Browlow contending goal kick midfielder?

Look at Bulldogs, talented group but not spectacular (half backs are special but midfielders are a good individuals but great group) that get lifted by the Bont. We can put together a good little core with a Shuey/Yeo danger pair (not to mention the most dominant ruckmen) and then we look like guns.
Our second tiers need to lift to be honest as well. If duggan, redden, hutch, Parto,Venables and etc then our midfield should be competitive with the best. Then you add a NN at his best and we will look awesome. That said it is a massive if .
 

domo

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#thatsnottheirjob

Its the other guys on the team that have to use basic skills and any modicum of foot speed. And its not even their job to know their limitations so they don't say ask for the ball running on to their right hand side when they know they have no right foot and hold all play up the field as they need to switch back to their left even if it means the kick will then be rushed as they have to go back into trouble to do so.
yepp! this clip.. is so damning.. (this first bit). And this 'play' arguablely lost us the game - because both players have no right side .. (and are so slow)
This is where the training the dedication to your craft, the extra training and the will to improve counts in the big game moments. Like Benny used to do after training. Everyone has gone and he is still there practicing only with his left hand side.
Then we hear all this rubbish about how the young guys 'look up to their training ethic" how they prepare.. Wot a crock. Or maybe it isn't because it's never mentioned about their high skills and abilities as what the young guys admire (when they are interviewed)

 

Feeling Groovy

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Gaff for me is the bigger culprit in that clip. He had the ball in the clear but no ability to accelerate at all and turned a perfectly fine handball into a mess. The follow up kick from Priddis wasn't good of course but Gaff's handball to him was terrible and it never should have come to that. The point about both only having one side is true though.
 

domo

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Gaff for me is the bigger culprit in that clip. He had the ball in the clear but no ability to accelerate at all and turned a perfectly fine handball into a mess. The follow up kick from Priddis wasn't good of course but Gaff's handball to him was terrible and it never should have come to that. The point about both only having one side is true though.
Yepp I agree! BUT also, if Priddis had burst away pace and run and carry. He could have at least taken that ball all the way to the 50 drawing defenders - either then Gaff is free or one of our poor forwards (who always cop the blame for everything) could have a chance to get out on the lead without 2 blokes on them.
Not that he could hit them with a pass anyway too mind you.
OR even have a crack at goal himself...

LOLz BAHhaAHaa
 

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