The Midfield

[pies4eva]

Draft or trade. Premierships are generally won by side who fill holes in trade week.

i think this is still a little floored when more of the superstars have come from the draft to win premierships for their teams than trade i dare say.

 

[Jabso]

i think this is still a little floored when more of the superstars have come from the draft to win premierships for their teams than trade i dare say.

MrT is saying that most premiership teams fill holes by trading. However I don't think this is too true. Hall was traded for because he was a big name, rather than filling a hole, Sydney just pounced on him. Davis wanted to go home. C.Bolton was a good choice. That's all I can think of.

As for WCE, Stenglein was again gained through the go home factor, if Stenglein wants to go home, and your one of the only 2 teams in with a chance you'd like to get him. Chick was perhaps a bit different though as he was in a difference stage of his career. Am I missing anyone here?

Brisbane got Caracella who was solid for them and of course Mal Michael. I suppose if you want you can go as far back as Lynch and Johnson and maybe even Scott.

Port Adelaide was probably the best example of trading/recycling to fill holes. Kingsley, Hardwick, Pickett, Mahoney even Shattock.

However I think we did pretty well with our recycled players of 2002/3. Whether you like the outcome we got McKee to fill a need, O'Bree fell in our hands, Steinfort was handy, Freeborn was handy (underrated), Woewodin while having an average 2003 (2004 his best year for us) added alot IMO and of course Holland, Clement and Wakelin and even Licuria. The fact is apart from the players that still remain on our list the soloutions were always going to be short term. We don't have the luxury of an interstate club where a Stenglein, Scott Thompson or J.Carr practically falls in our hands every so often. We did more stopgap trading than any of the recent premiership teams.

 

[Jimbeam]

Optimistic but i think B.Johnson is about to have a massive year, swan is underrated bad and if he improves, which i think he can by adding some more attacking to his game might take another step again, both if they have done the work will have a field day this year, they look unconventional but who gives a ****, they should be ready to rip games open..
Heath is a ball magnate that can play, has loads of room to grow, Ryce can still be anything and i honestly think people forget how good he was before he got shot down by injury, was on the verge of taking a huge step. Thats 4 players who we need desperately to explode and show some real arrogance and **** on the field for us supporters.

Pendles is a freak and sooner than later will have everyone saying wtf was that, and thomas has it all in front of him, all he has to do is take it. 6 players that we can build on. Add dids and ego, thats our future midfield right there. And the way brown and Reid move on the ball for their size is phenonamal, quick as **** and should be right at home in a few years. And Stanley was got for his physical game.

If people dont rate them who cares, let the game do the talking.

 

[Cyclops]

Good points.

Trading for mid tier players is more likely to get you a fair deal: top players cost a lot in emotion, draft picks and money, so few go for near their actual value. Say we snared Judd: it'd wrench the Eagles badly, and cost us so much there'd be massive expectation on the boy (not that there isn't already). Remember the hostility to Buckley at Collingwood when he was traded?

...We should have kept Scotland when it comes down to it though...

Scotland wanted to leave, but honourably stayed the extra year when we couldn't get a suitable trade. He'd be another cog in the machine like Licca and O'Bree, so he'd have been handy.

As you say, its having enough reasonable quality cogs to keep the wheel spinning all game and all season that gets you the flag.

...The next Kane Johnson or Nich Stevens should be very dopable if we are prepared to give up a something. Still keep reaching for a Judd...

I love it! We slip Judd knock-out drops to assist our recruitment efforts.

Maybe we could do a "face-off" scenario so he swaps identity with Sam Iles. Suddenly "Judd"'s form falls away and "Iles" wins the brownlow! No-one would never know! He'd get a few drug tests though.

Sides to target are teams with decent midfields who see themselves on the verge (eg Freo) or slipping past 12 o'clock (Adelaide). They might go over the odds to fix a percieved kpp problem (eg Tarrant). Which decent tall player will we sacrifice to get a decent mid?

 

[MarkT]

i think this is still a little floored when more of the superstars have come from the draft to win premierships for their teams than trade i dare say.

Of course they have. You draft 5+ players every year and would be lucky to get a trade in the door once a year. Clubs that draft quality rarely let it go. The numbers will always stack up that way. The issue is about filling list holes not basing a list around trades. IMO if you can’t trade you can’t win flags. WCE would probably be on the leat trade orientated lists of modern times to have won a flag and great credit to them for that.

 

[MarkT]

Remember the hostility to Buckley at Collingwood when he was traded?

Couldn’t care less to be frank. It has worked out rather well for us. Doing what we’ve done since hasn’t exactly achieved a whole lot.

Scotland wanted to leave,

Scotland, Michael, Williams & Davis all wanted to leave. A great coach can change people’s minds. There are always excuses though but that’s Collingwood unfortunately.

I love it! We slip Judd knock-out drops to assist our recruitment efforts.

God! I re read that post. More typo’s than actual correct words.

Sides to target are teams with decent midfields who see themselves on the verge (eg Freo) or slipping past 12 o'clock (Adelaide). They might go over the odds to fix a percieved kpp problem (eg Tarrant). Which decent tall player will we sacrifice to get a decent mid?

Lot’s of ways to skin cats. Multiple club deals, draft picks – it all depends on who wants what. Maybe Rusling still has some value. Maybe Clement would be worth a lot to Freo and maybe we could throw in Lockey. O’Bree is probably at a record high value. These are just things to consider whereas we lock many of them out and continue to come up short. I’d hate to let Clement go for numerous reasons but is he really going to play in a premiership at Collingwood? Would St. Kilda have given us a draft pick upgrade for Wakelin? What would Fraser’s market value be v what can he do for us as mobile tall ordinary ruckman that can’t consistently take a pack mark? Would anyone give us anything worth while for Rocca? Do we explore these options every year?

 

[doppleganger]

Lot’s of ways to skin cats. Multiple club deals, draft picks – it all depends on who wants what. Maybe Rusling still has some value. Maybe Clement would be worth a lot to Freo and maybe we could throw in Lockey. O’Bree is probably at a record high value. These are just things to consider whereas we lock many of them out and continue to come up short. I’d hate to let Clement go for numerous reasons but is he really going to play in a premiership at Collingwood? Would St. Kilda have given us a draft pick upgrade for Wakelin? What would Fraser’s market value be v what can he do for us as mobile tall ordinary ruckman that can’t consistently take a pack mark? Would anyone give us anything worth while for Rocca? Do we explore these options every year?

fairly easy to suggest that we offload every player who has only a couple of years left to play......but in reality that would probably hinder development of younger players and reduce club morale etc.

 

[sava]

I don't think anyone should really be concerned with your midfield .. you arent in a position to win the premiership (though I would never write it off) as much as I hate to say it I think Collingwood are doing brilliantly without anyone noticing .. they have sured up their spine for the next decade .. Brown Cloke Dawes Reid .. Throw in Rusling and Fraser .. and you will have the big names in a few years .. what collingwood are doing was suring up the spine first as taller players take longer to develop .. so in the next three drafts if you pick up midfielders or rucks in the first couple of round you will be sitting pretty because the midfielders can normally play straight away .. take a look at this ..

2009

B: Jack Anthony Nathan Brown (first round pick)
HB: Nick Maxwell Travis Cloke Heath Shaw
C: Dane Swan Alan Didak Chris Egan
HF: Dale Thomas Chris Dawes Leon Davis
F: Sean Rusling Ben Reid (first round pick)
Foll: Josh Fraser Ben Johnson Scott Pendlebury

I/C: (2nd round Ruckman) Harry O'Brien Rhyce Shaw (gun) Scott Reed

Does that lift your spirits pie fans do not stress .. the players you r doubting will come A graders are the players u wont need in three years .. you have so many first round draft picks and gun youngsters in the team .. that another 2 years of drafting will hav all those players regular seniors .. and the first round midfielders u pick up in the next two years will add the youth and excitement .. as they r young one will play forward pocket the other will play back pocket .. but they will have valuable stints on the ball .. tell me that is not a team that can win a premiership in 3 years ..

And DO NOT tell me didak wont be a gun midfielder .. he captained the all australian team .. in the under 18s and was the best midfielder in the comp .. he will be a superstar midfielder ..

 

[doppleganger]

are u sure ur a bombers supporter sava??

by the way u left out the 2011 brownlow medalist m.clarke, the irish n.buckley!!

and yes didak should move into the middle

 

[DWil6]

Love it. One of the more positive spins on our team courtesy of a Bombers supporter. Hopefully other teams are looking in from the outside and seeing the future of the Collingwood FC as he did. We were in the GF in 02/03 and it wont be long til we're back there. And this time we'll be taking it home!

 

[Jimbeam]

Nice post sava. Very surprising having someone show that much knowledge from another club about a lists projected goal when its soo bloody young. Some wont make it but your pretty close.

 

[sava]

haha yes I can say I am Essendon through and through .. though my mate did get an extra membership for free last year .. so i went to every home game with him .. he is the most knowledgable bloke i know when it comes to football .. so that projected goal and the players you have coming through is just repeated to me over and over .. maybe some wont make it but some in there are already proven and at the age they are that is incredible .. the ones that havent made it there all hav shown signs .. and first round draft picks are always going to be talented so in the next two years you will pick up MORE talent .. if it all comes off Collingwood arent far from a premiership .. all this talk about hawthorns young guns .. Collingwood could be the surprise packet in a few years...

Also from an outsiders point of view that article in the paper about medhurst was all rubbish .. just wanted a story .. Medhurst was BOG by a mile 19 possessions 8 tackles 12 marks .. and only in 3 quarters .. they took him off to rest him up for round one .. WILL PLAY ROUND ONE .. and .. WILL BE AN AWESOME PICK UP FOR COLLINGWOOD

 

[DWil6]

Also from an outsiders point of view that article in the paper about medhurst was all rubbish .. just wanted a story .. Medhurst was BOG by a mile 19 possessions 8 tackles 12 marks .. and only in 3 quarters .. they took him off to rest him up for round one .. WILL PLAY ROUND ONE .. and .. WILL BE AN AWESOME PICK UP FOR COLLINGWOOD

Are you serious? Where did you get those stats? I'm starting to think you're having a lend...

 

[sava]

I know if i say a very reliable source you arent goin to believe me .. but a bloke who works closely with collingwood .. eg. trainer runner .. i cant say which one because i dont want to incriminate them .. but they come into my TAB to have a bet so i asked him about the story in the paper and that is what he told me .. 19 possesions 8 tackles 12 marks .. and was being rested in the last for round one ..

 

[DWil6]

I know if i say a very reliable source you arent goin to believe me .. but a bloke who works closely with collingwood .. eg. trainer runner .. i cant say which one because i dont want to incriminate them .. but they come into my TAB to have a bet so i asked him about the story in the paper and that is what he told me .. 19 possesions 8 tackles 12 marks .. and was being rested in the last for round one ..

Well we can only hope your source is reliable cause that is a solid performance in an injury interrupted pre season.

 

[Coin_Toss]

I know if i say a very reliable source you arent goin to believe me .. but a bloke who works closely with collingwood .. eg. trainer runner .. i cant say which one because i dont want to incriminate them .. but they come into my TAB to have a bet so i asked him about the story in the paper and that is what he told me .. 19 possesions 8 tackles 12 marks .. and was being rested in the last for round one ..

Yes, I was wondering the same thing too, good pick up! He didn't look as bad as we were made out to believe... I thought he moved and presented well, nice stats (19 possesions, 8 tackles, 12 marks) for a small forward.

 

[Bonuspoints]

Thats great to read about Medhurst. I think he'll be a good solid pick up for us. I saw him play against the Roos and was amazed at how good a mark he is. I'm still amazed at how people rate Scotland. Yeah he's a good solid player, but thats it. Could you image him getting a run at the Eagles (when Cousins was allowed to play). I find it hard to see him getting a run. Scotland has done well at Carlton and made the most of the opportunities that have come his way. I tip my hat at him for that as he's worked hard and deserved it, but I hardly think he is "the one that got away" as some people seem to make out.