Analysis The missing piece up forward - hurt factor!

[Elite Crow]

Crows attack ‘not working’: Hart
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/spor...s/news-story/7b325527d4e0f21b03bbeb90567db31f

It’s paywalled and I’m no good at quoting the text but if someone can it’s pretty damming.

Basically we’ve gone from leading most stats to being near the bottom.

Let’s see if Hart is full of s**t or we do something about it.

It’s time for Greenwood and Stengle to come in, Murphy down back.

 

[jackster83]

Crows attack ‘not working’: Hart
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/spor...s/news-story/7b325527d4e0f21b03bbeb90567db31f

It’s paywalled and I’m no good at quoting the text but if someone can it’s pretty damming.

Basically we’ve gone from leading most stats to being near the bottom.

Let’s see if Hart is full of s**t or we do something about it.

It’s time for Greenwood and Stengle to come in, Murphy down back.

“The game has changed completely from 2017. If we are expecting to kick goals out the back and get people on fast breaks every time we win the footy then we are wrong,” said dual Crows premiership defender Hart.

Well at least he acknowledges that we're not in 2017 anymore. Talk is cheap though - we need to see them doing something about it.

To be fair to Hart, our forward line was absolute garbage last year too.

 

[Elite Crow]

“The game has changed completely from 2017. If we are expecting to kick goals out the back and get people on fast breaks every time we win the footy then we are wrong,” said dual Crows premiership defender Hart.

Well at least he acknowledges that we're not in 2017 anymore. Talk is cheap though - we need to see them doing something about it.

To be fair to Hart, our forward line was absolute garbage last year too.

And yet they thought they didn’t need to change

 

[WheresGroomgone]

An interesting observation regarding the "hurt factor" we don't seem to have it currently but do we suffer from it badly when other teams do? Speaking to a guy the other day who's friend who has played at the highest level and obviously has some spare time was concerned about Tex's efforts when playing Hawks so he watched the reply closely and reportedly old mate took his eye off the ball {expecting contact} 17 times! I haven't checked this and by the guys own observations he was better against Sydney but are we playing scared? We definitely looked bullied by Hawthorn.

 

[Bicks]

Crows attack ‘not working’: Hart
https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/spor...s/news-story/7b325527d4e0f21b03bbeb90567db31f

It’s paywalled and I’m no good at quoting the text but if someone can it’s pretty damming.

Basically we’ve gone from leading most stats to being near the bottom.

Let’s see if Hart is full of s**t or we do something about it.

It’s time for Greenwood and Stengle to come in, Murphy down back.

It's in the upcoming game thread

 

[Brenton Davy]

I've been thinking that we have been kicking long and high too often when entering the F50 - the problem is this leads to too much hang time of the ball and before the ball lands.

Any forward of ours who was in the clear or has a 1-on-1 to beat when the ball is kicked gets more opposition players bearing down on him by the time the ball gets there.

Don't mean to pick on Tex (plenty others do this) but the pix below shows him getting the ball just outside our F50 and despite the 3 team mates in good nearby positions, Tex kicks it long to JJ who was 1-on-1 in the goal square. As Tex kicks the long, high ball to JJ, Duckwood is about 20m away from the goal square but the hang time of the ball allows Duckwood to get to the goal square to make it a 2-on-1 against JJ.

[click to enlarge]

If the kick was long, strong, low and accurate (which we have done occaionally), it might have got to JJ much quicker to give him a better chance.

We also often do the long, high quick often coming out of defence and the long ball hang time let's the opposition get to our players and make taking a mark very difficult. This isn't good even if we have strong markers in out list (which we don't really).

Should we put away the long, high kick pass except occasionally?

That analysis sums up our forward entries to a tee. In fact it also is very indicative of our R50 movement. So often we get someone out on their own with 25-30 metres of space on the switch but are completely ignored, preferring to go long around the boundary, slow and safe.

Have we become so concerned about our poor execution that we've become scared to take the game on?

 

[jackster83]

Fun fact: Sloane and Jenkins are currently leading our marks inside 50 with four.

Walker has taken one mark inside 50 for the season.

 

[Murray2503]

One of Tex/Jenkins needs to go. It's painfully obvious to all except our selectors.

Probably both along with Betts and Lynch. Could sum it up with "our forward line is ****ed". CC and Gov were the xfactor and speed holding it together. The other problem is that Walker, Betts, Jenkins,Lynch have all hit the wall at the same time. That has caused our forward line to be impotent. We must get a combination into our team from the likes of Davis, McHenry, Gallucci, Stengle, Greenwood, Fogarty, Himmelberg and McAdam. Jones has added much needed pace and pressure and i feel a breakout game is not far off. We must kick a winning score and if Don continues with a losing formula he is either an idiot or looking to be fired. Another option is to play Keath up forward and see what it looks like. One thing I know is that Jenkins is playing like he doesn't care and must be dropped. His efforts were disgraceful last week and cannot be tolerated. As said previously i would look to trade Lynch and Jenkins end of year and payout Walker and Betts early if their form continues.

Team I would go with:
Laird Talia Hamill
Smith Keath Gibbs
Atkins Sloane Jones
Davis Walker Knight
McHenry Fogarty Stengle

Hunter MCrouch Milera

Greenwood BCrouch Gallucci Himmelberg

Out: Jenkins ROB Lynch Kelly Betts Hartigan Mackay Seedsman Murphy

 

[crows dude]

Probably both along with Betts and Lynch. Could sum it up with "our forward line is ******". CC and Gov were the xfactor and speed holding it together. The other problem is that Walker, Betts, Jenkins,Lynch have all hit the wall at the same time. That has caused our forward line to be impotent. We must get a combination into our team from the likes of Davis, McHenry, Gallucci, Stengle, Greenwood, Fogarty, Himmelberg and McAdam. Jones has added much needed pace and pressure and i feel a breakout game is not far off. We must kick a winning score and if Don continues with a losing formula he is either an idiot or looking to be fired. Another option is to play Keath up forward and see what it looks like. One thing I know is that Jenkins is playing like he doesn't care and must be dropped. His efforts were disgraceful last week and cannot be tolerated. As said previously i would look to trade Lynch and Jenkins end of year and payout Walker and Betts early if their form continues.

Team I would go with:
Laird Talia Hamill
Smith Keath Gibbs
Atkins Sloane Jones
Davis Walker Knight
McHenry Fogarty Stengle

Hunter MCrouch Milera

Greenwood BCrouch Gallucci Himmelberg

Out: Jenkins ROB Lynch Kelly Betts Hartigan Mackay Seedsman Murphy

Best team no injuries:
Brown Talia Doedee
Laird Keath Gibbs.
Smith Sloane Jones
Davis Walker Knight
Mchenry Fogarty McAdam/Stengle

Hunter MCrouch Milera

Greenwood Seedsman Gallucci Himmelberg

ROB is twice the ruckman that Hunter is. ROB did ok for his first game back in AFL in three years.

 

[Cleric]

Murphy isnt going to make a defender as his kicking is poor. Last thing we need is him kicking it out of bounds on the full or to an opposition player.
He also just isnt good enough offensively either. He is a poor mans Petrenko.

 

[marty36]

And yet they thought they didn’t need to change

Says who???

 

[Elite Crow]

Says who???

Says the fact we are basically playing the same forward line the same way we did in 2017.

Hart’s now come out and said teams have changed and we can’t play the same way but we have until now, JJ is still playing from behind trying to seagull goals.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

An interesting observation regarding the "hurt factor" we don't seem to have it currently but do we suffer from it badly when other teams do? Speaking to a guy the other day who's friend who has played at the highest level and obviously has some spare time was concerned about Tex's efforts when playing Hawks so he watched the reply closely and reportedly old mate took his eye off the ball {expecting contact} 17 times! I haven't checked this and by the guys own observations he was better against Sydney but are we playing scared? We definitely looked bullied by Hawthorn.

Tex has played this way for years, often putting up one hand for marks.

For all his positives, his lack of aerial courage is damning of a captain.

 

[John Who]

An interesting observation regarding the "hurt factor" we don't seem to have it currently but do we suffer from it badly when other teams do? Speaking to a guy the other day who's friend who has played at the highest level and obviously has some spare time was concerned about Tex's efforts when playing Hawks so he watched the reply closely and reportedly old mate took his eye off the ball {expecting contact} 17 times! I haven't checked this and by the guys own observations he was better against Sydney but are we playing scared? We definitely looked bullied by Hawthorn.

Tex is an interesting one. I reckon since his knee injury some years ago, this has made him become more conservative regarding crashing the pack, flying for marks. In other words, it seems he’s modified his game since the injury.

Regarding his hurt factor, he has actually been one of our most aggressive forwards that we have. Look back to last year and he was actually suspended for several games from 2 knockouts - 1 player for a bump and another player for a semi/pseudo-sling tackle. Unfortunately due to these penalties, I think he’s playing a bit uncomfortable for perhaps fear of further penalties. I don’t doubt Tex is giving it his all, but his all this year is not the same as it was some years ago.

 

[1970crow]

You replace Tex, JJ and Betts and you'll get exactly the same results. Our methods of moving the ball into the 50 is what is cooked.

Not true. We need players who work their asses off to create a contest and then have the ability to apply pressure. Tex, Lynch and JJ do not, Betts does, but he’s seemingly struggling for whatever reason. Get rid of the non competitive types and play anyone who is and we’ll at least be able to defend better as their defenders will be exiting under some pressure rather than the red carpet treatment they get right now.

In a way you are right though, our entries are average. So why we play uncompetitive forwards that can’t then pressure is a complete mystery.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

Tex is an interesting one. I reckon since his knee injury some years ago, this has made him become more conservative regarding crashing the pack, flying for marks. In other words, it seems he’s modified his game since the injury.

Regarding his hurt factor, he has actually been one of our most aggressive forwards that we have. Look back to last year and he was actually suspended for several games from 2 knockouts - 1 player for a bump and another player for a semi/pseudo-sling tackle. Unfortunately due to these penalties, I think he’s playing a bit uncomfortable for perhaps fear of further penalties. I don’t doubt Tex is giving it his all, but his all this year is not the same as it was some years ago.

Yes he has been suspended and come under scrutiny at other times for sling tackles/careless tackles - which anyone can do - even Chayce Jones in his third game laid a cracker which was close however I want to see Walker crash packs {and Jenkins but we know that won't happen} and worry defenders he needs to show that to his team not just tackles and questionable bumps, he needs to show the same "want" that Sloane does when hitting the ball.

 

[Murray2503]

ROB is twice the ruckman that Hunter is. ROB did ok for his first game back in AFL in three years.

Tbh we dont know who is better as Jacobs has always been the ruck picked. I do know that whoever is better out of Hunter and ROB is not the answer long term and neither will ever be top 5 rucks of the comp. We must trade in a topline ruck end of year or one that will develop into one.

 

[jackster83]

Yes he has been suspended and come under scrutiny at other times for sling tackles/careless tackles - which anyone can do - even Chayce Jones in his third game laid a cracker which was close however I want to see Walker crash packs {and Jenkins but we know that won't happen} and worry defenders he needs to show that to his team not just tackles and questionable bumps, he needs to show the same "want" that Sloane does when hitting the ball.

It shits me to tears seeing Betts and Murphy being the ones having to fly for marks while our three tall forwards stand there and wait for the crumbs. Even worse is that these tall forwards are all in the leadership group.

All three deserve a spell in the SANFL AFAIC. Start doing the non-negotiables and we'll talk.

 

[Murray2503]

It's not missing pieces that are the problem. It's structure/game plan. Last week nearly every time there was a forward entry to JJ he was behind his opponent, not to mention that pathetic hand ball to Lynch that went out of bounds. I think we still have the players up there to kick a winning score but their entire method has to change drastically if it is to work.
(I'm talking to you Ben Hart!!).

Your wrong. I agree Ben Hart is no coach. Ben Hart needs to be fired from any line of our team. Even if we bring it in perfectly we won't kick a winning score against the top 6 to 8 teams. The structure is not right. Lynch, Walker, Betts and Jenkins surrounded by 2 smells is embarrassingly slow, cannot take a contested mark to save itself and cannot put the necessary pressure on defences. The game has changed. You need 1 tall with pace who can take a contested mark surrounded by 2 mediums with pace who can take a contested mark plus 3 small with pace that can run both ways and kick goals. Our forward line has none of that wiith the current setup.
Betts: Finished. Will retire after 300 I predict or end of year.
Walker: Has been droppable for 18 months. Can't take a contested mark to save himself. Lost his skills. Can't chase.
Jenkins: The push the player in the back joe the goose specialist. Is a poor excuse for a basketballer. Softer than butter.
Lynch: The so called conduit. Another who can't take a contested pack mark. Is slow and offers nothing.
We are going no where with this 4. Would drop Lynch, Betts and Jenkins. Their form and attitude is putrid.

 

[crows dude]

Tbh we dont know who is better as Jacobs has always been the ruck picked. I do know that whoever is better out of Hunter and ROB is not the answer long term and neither will ever be top 5 rucks of the comp. We must trade in a topline ruck end of year or one that will develop into one.

We do know that ROB is better than Hunter. They have played together now for about 4 years and ROB has always been number one while Hunter play full forward. Hunter is also 26 and ROB is 23 so ROB is also younger.

 

[CrowBloke]

Greenwood. He's just about the only X-factor player we have left (thanks Reid).

Yes! Greenwood.
He has mongrel, clean hands/good mark and would dish out a few goal assists as well.

 

[CrowBloke]

Honest question, does Himmelberg crash packs?

Here is a change up to consider, have Berg, JJ and Stengle at FF line with Tex, Betts and Gooch/Knighta along HF line. Lynch into a wing and Murphy to the back pocket.

The Berg swaps with a midfielder where needed having Sloane, Gibbs as a marking forward.

In general play Walker move up the ground and delivers into the forward 50 leaving marking targets of JJ and Berg. I would like Davis in there as a marking target but I can't see it. The other option is to bring in Davis rather than Berg.

But the club needs to get the players lowering their eyes, never bombing it and getting a few forwards up the ground to open the forward 50.

Where does Greenwood fit into this?

 

[moogerfooger]

You just know they'll replace Jones with a small forward, probably Stengle, rather than take the hard call and drop Betts.

 

[Murray2503]

We do know that ROB is better than Hunter. They have played together now for about 4 years and ROB has always been number one while Hunter play full forward. Hunter is also 26 and ROB is 23 so ROB is also younger.

Maybe he is but Jacob's will be in the team next week. Whoever is better out of Jacob's, ROB and Hunter is not going to have a huge impact on the game is the point. The club should have the cash to attract a top line ruck end of year with retirements of Mackay, Douglas, Otten, Jacobs and the trading out of several players if they can make some tough decisions. A ruck must be our number 1 trade priority as it should have been 2 to 3 years ago.

 

[1970crow]

“The game has changed completely from 2017. If we are expecting to kick goals out the back and get people on fast breaks every time we win the footy then we are wrong,” said dual Crows premiership defender Hart.

Well at least he acknowledges that we're not in 2017 anymore. Talk is cheap though - we need to see them doing something about it.

To be fair to Hart, our forward line was absolute garbage last year too.

We were shut down in 2017 as well. It was crystal clear back then that unless our mids were handsomely on top and our defence was breaking fast and carrying the ball that Lynch, Tex and JJ were no good. We were able to still go ok because we had Gov, CC and a hungry Betts providing pressure. But they’ll look good again, we’ll play some shitful team at home, our mids will dominate and they’ll look like millionaires up forward again. It’ll be Joe the gooseageddon and Pyke and Campo will pat themselves on the back because they’ve been proven right. Our system does work.