Analysis The missing piece up forward - hurt factor!

[Murray2503]

You just know they'll replace Jones with a small forward, probably Stengle, rather than take the hard call and drop Betts.

Agree they want to get Betts to 300 but even those idiots know Jones brings everything our team doesn't have. If Jones is dropped Don needs to be sacked immediately. We should be adding another 5 players into this team that bring what Jones has. They are on our list.

 

[CrowBloke]

Jenkins is the most annoying player to watch, he has all the tools - shows signs that he gets it - then just disappears for huge swaths of game-time. Maybe he needs the challenge of becoming a ruckman to motivate him? I say "become a ruckman" because he is not a ruckman's shadow right now. Grundy is a ruckman, Gawn is a ruckman, Ryder is a ruckman.

Jenkins is frustrating to watch, enigmatic and inconsistent, because he's confused.
He's confused because his background is basketball and all of his instinctive reactions under pressure, with no time to think only react, are those of a basketballer.
Basketballers don't tackle --- they stand with their feet wide, knees bent, arms out, elbows bent, hands open facing the oppo player to try to block passes. If you watch Jenkins closely, you'll see him freeze and adopt that stance in crowded conditions, often. It's his default, instinctive response when an oppo player takes possession in packs. Worse, it's useless in a game of footy, unless you're standing the mark.
It would take years to train Jenkins body positioning and tapwork, to convert him into a ruckman, and we're stuck with him until end 2021 .
*tears hair/ rends shirt*

 

[marty36]

Says the fact we are basically playing the same forward line the same way we did in 2017.

Hart’s now come out and said teams have changed and we can’t play the same way but we have until now, JJ is still playing from behind trying to seagull goals.

We are playing the same forward line in Tex,Betts,JJ,Lynch as even you would admit they all can play at the top level, maybe they need to change the way they play who knows.

JJ is what he is, he had a good year last year playing like a seagull, maybe it works maybe it doesn't, but if there is someone performing better in the two's bring them in, lets be honest there isn't

A lot have said our midfield arent delivering into the forward line, but our two major ball winners in Sloane and Crouch arent elite legs but get a lot of the footy, is this the problem, that they deliver average footy?

This year our guns of the HB in laird and Smith are letting us down also, is it because teams have worked us out and they aren't being allowed the freedom and space they once were?

 

[1970crow]

Your wrong. I agree Ben Hart is no coach. Ben Hart needs to be fired from any line of our team. Even if we bring it in perfectly we won't kick a winning score against the top 6 to 8 teams. The structure is not right. Lynch, Walker, Betts and Jenkins surrounded by 2 smells is embarrassingly slow, cannot take a contested mark to save itself and cannot put the necessary pressure on defences. The game has changed. You need 1 tall with pace who can take a contested mark surrounded by 2 mediums with pace who can take a contested mark plus 3 small with pace that can run both ways and kick goals. Our forward line has none of that wiith the current setup.
Betts: Finished. Will retire after 300 I predict or end of year.
Walker: Has been droppable for 18 months. Can't take a contested mark to save himself. Lost his skills. Can't chase.
Jenkins: The push the player in the back joe the goose specialist. Is a poor excuse for a basketballer. Softer than butter.
Lynch: The so called conduit. Another who can't take a contested pack mark. Is slow and offers nothing.
We are going no where with this 4. Would drop Lynch, Betts and Jenkins. Their form and attitude is putrid.

I’ve been posting that we shouldn’t play Tex, JJ and Lynch in the same 22 since 2017. Didn’t get a lot of traction back then because they were beating up on defences when our mids and defenders were humming. But you only needed to not be blinkered by that and watch how they went when our mids were gett8ng beaten or breaking even. I was very disappointed when we didn’t cash in on Lynch. It would have been JJ gone if it was up to me, but he was already contracted and we don’t push out contracted players.

 

[Murray2503]

We were shut down in 2017 as well. It was crystal clear back then that unless our mids were handsomely on top and our defence was breaking fast and carrying the ball that Lynch, Tex and JJ were no good. We were able to still go ok because we had Gov, CC and a hungry Betts providing pressure. But they’ll look good again, we’ll play some shitful team at home, our mids will dominate and they’ll look like millionaires up forward again. It’ll be Joe the gooseageddon and Pyke and Campo will pat themselves on the back because they’ve been proven right. Our system does work.

A decent coaching panel / match committee puts a system /personnel in place that will work against the top 4 teams.

 

[Murray2503]

Jenkins is frustrating to watch, enigmatic and inconsistent, because he's confused.
He's confused because his background is basketball and all of his instinctive reactions under pressure, with no time to think only react, are those of a basketballer.
Basketballers don't tackle --- they stand with their feet wide, knees bent, arms out, elbows bent, hands open facing the oppo player to try to block passes. If you watch Jenkins closely, you'll see him freeze and adopt that stance in crowded conditions, often. It's his default, instinctive response when an oppo player takes possession in packs. Worse, it's useless in a game of footy, unless you're standing the mark.
It would take years to train Jenkins body positioning and tapwork, to convert him into a ruckman, and we're stuck with him until end 2021 .
*tears hair/ rends shirt*

No were not. Chad Wingard, Jack Watts. Trust me you can get a contracted player out. The club runs that's excuse as they hate to be made to look stupid so they double down and make more errors to back up their poor decision. All stems from no responsibility Chapman. Would be happy for the crows to pay 40 to 50% of Jenkins wage to another club. Would work for Jenkins as then he can do more of his NFL analysis in Melb. There are clubs out there that would take him.

 

[crows dude]

Maybe he is but Jacob's will be in the team next week. Whoever is better out of Jacob's, ROB and Hunter is not going to have a huge impact on the game is the point. The club should have the cash to attract a top line ruck end of year with retirements of Mackay, Douglas, Otten, Jacobs and the trading out of several players if they can make some tough decisions. A ruck must be our number 1 trade priority as it should have been 2 to 3 years ago.

Well im not bringing Jacobs in next week. He has been no better than ROb was last week who was playing his 3rd AFL match and first in three years. ROB needs games. 3 years ago we had Sauce in AA form and a 20 year old in ROB dominating in the SANFL so a ruck was not a priority. Yes ROB has had 2 terrible years with injury so he needs this year to get the games now that hes fit. You cant have too many rucks on the list as then the balance in the SANFL would be all out of whack. We currently have four with SAUCE, ROB, Hunter and Strachan. That is more than enough.

 

[marty36]

Well im not bringing Jacobs in next week. He has been no better than ROb was last week who was playing his 3rd AFL match and first in three years. ROB needs games. 3 years ago we had Sauce in AA form and a 20 year old in ROB dominating in the SANFL so a ruck was not a priority. Yes ROB has had 2 terrible years with injury so he needs this year to get the games now that hes fit. You cant have too many rucks on the list as then the balance in the SANFL would be all out of whack. We currently have four with SAUCE, ROB, Hunter and Strachan. That is more than enough.

agree 4 rucks is more than enough on a list if they are not up to it move them on, and replace them with someone else, you can see from them playing in the Bs there ability if its crap get rid of them, like they cut Jarman, Edwards and Signorelli, they saw enough of them in the twos, to say they were good enough, fair call

 

[skam85]

Jenkins is frustrating to watch, enigmatic and inconsistent, because he's confused.
He's confused because his background is basketball and all of his instinctive reactions under pressure, with no time to think only react, are those of a basketballer.
Basketballers don't tackle --- they stand with their feet wide, knees bent, arms out, elbows bent, hands open facing the oppo player to try to block passes. If you watch Jenkins closely, you'll see him freeze and adopt that stance in crowded conditions, often. It's his default, instinctive response when an oppo player takes possession in packs. Worse, it's useless in a game of footy, unless you're standing the mark.
It would take years to train Jenkins body positioning and tapwork, to convert him into a ruckman, and we're stuck with him until end 2021 .
*tears hair/ rends shirt*

Jenkins has been a footballer for eight years.
The basketball background is irrelevant now.

 

[skam85]

I wouldn't mind a forward that can hurt on the scoreboard, let alone an opposition player.

 

[marty36]

I’ve been posting that we shouldn’t play Tex, JJ and Lynch in the same 22 since 2017. Didn’t get a lot of traction back then because they were beating up on defences when our mids and defenders were humming. But you only needed to not be blinkered by that and watch how they went when our mids were gett8ng beaten or breaking even. I was very disappointed when we didn’t cash in on Lynch. It would have been JJ gone if it was up to me, but he was already contracted and we don’t push out contracted players.

so the problem is our mids not the forward line

 

[Alwaysacrow]

Your wrong. I agree Ben Hart is no coach. Ben Hart needs to be fired from any line of our team. Even if we bring it in perfectly we won't kick a winning score against the top 6 to 8 teams. The structure is not right. Lynch, Walker, Betts and Jenkins surrounded by 2 smells is embarrassingly slow, cannot take a contested mark to save itself and cannot put the necessary pressure on defences. The game has changed. You need 1 tall with pace who can take a contested mark surrounded by 2 mediums with pace who can take a contested mark plus 3 small with pace that can run both ways and kick goals. Our forward line has none of that wiith the current setup.
Betts: Finished. Will retire after 300 I predict or end of year.
Walker: Has been droppable for 18 months. Can't take a contested mark to save himself. Lost his skills. Can't chase.
Jenkins: The push the player in the back joe the goose specialist. Is a poor excuse for a basketballer. Softer than butter.
Lynch: The so called conduit. Another who can't take a contested pack mark. Is slow and offers nothing.
We are going no where with this 4. Would drop Lynch, Betts and Jenkins. Their form and attitude is putrid.

I wasn't suggesting that our forward line could/will go back to the heights of 2017 but I'm sure it could still be a hell of a lot better than what we're seeing atm. Whilst JJ is not a great contested mark what he does have is pace yet nearly every time last week when he competed for a mark he was behind his man. Pathetic. Betts seemed to be playing to high up the ground for my liking while Tex I think has shown some moments but can't seem to put it all together yet. The whole team in fact is not clicking yet but have shown signs of what they can do. All is not lost imo but they had better sort it out real soon or the season could easily slip away AGAIN!!!

 

[Crows I Am]

You just know they'll replace Jones with a small forward, probably Stengle, rather than take the hard call and drop Betts.

This is what I am expecting to see. No chance we drop any of the senior players in the forward line.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

Mcgovern played an important role.
Douglas played a useful role pinch hitting half forward. Gibbs a better all round player but can't fulfill that role.
Cameron also a painful loss, last year its effects hidden.

Right now I think Betts is likely to be a weak link. He is use to crap delivery from his time at charlton.

Pity about number 23s injury. although he is a little soft regarding groundball.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I hope we haven't signed Ben Hart on more than a one year deal. Can't imagine us breaking a coaches contract and paying them out...

 

[headache1]

I'm not saying our current smalls are afraid of the heavy hits. More the point that their heavy hits are not too concerning for our opponents. The Cameron bumps and tackles appear more damaging (he recently clobbered a Port player, making that player out of action for 1 quarter), and McGovern jumping into opposition's backs and heads are more fear-inducing to their opponents, in my opinion.

Somebody with the size and athleticism of Jenkins should be making opposition defenders s**t bricks every time there is a high forward entry where they can't see him in front of them.

 

[arrowman]

FWIW Blight said on AA today that he'd give the forwards the North game to turn it around, if not he'd be making changes. Can't say I disagree with that.

 

[jackster83]

Did anyone hear Tredrea on 5AA tonight? He was absolutely spot on - it made me yell at my car radio "why can't our ****ing coaches see that?"

Some key points:
- Midfield delivery - ours is s**t. Sloane and Brad playing well, but Matt and Gibbs both patchy
- Forwards not prepared to work for the ball or for one another. Being a kick, mark and goal player isn't enough; they need to split packs and attack the ball in the air
- We haven't replaced Cameron's pressure
- Greenwood absolutely should be playing
- Playing Fogarty in defence is stupid and he should be given a run of games (ie not dropped after one week)
- Phil Walsh had Port's forwards doing a slip cordon style marking drill intended to get them taking the ball out in front

 

[Doc_]

Greenwood to FF.
* JJ off. Only there as ruck relief. We dont need it with ROB. Huge tank.

Or

Greenwood to FF.
JJ to HF
Tex to Lynches roll we * Lynch off.

1 of Tex, JJ or Lynch have to go. Tex gets the nod to stay, for now, because he's captain.
Greenwood could be lethal at FF. He has all the weapons and a nightmare match up.

 

[CrowBloke]

Jenkins has been a footballer for eight years.
The basketball background is irrelevant now.

You're ignoring early years, background training, you know, the kinds of things you learn as a kid/adolescent in sport that produce instinctive, don't-need-to-think actions.
Who's the better footy player, Jenkins or Greenwood, say, if you had to drop one off the list today?
I'd retain Greenwood, who is more versatile, has sticky-hands when he's playing inside, good grab, extricates himself well from tight conditions and gives the ball off well, all instinctively. That's because his background is from playing footy as a kid, a very talented junior player in Tassie. Greenwood has a footy player's instincts, but played a high level of basketball as well.

Yes, Jenkins has played footy for 8 years, so for the most part I agree with you --- except --- in tight conditions, when under extreme pressure (say, 30% of the time, please watch him closely) he reverts to that basketballer's defensive stance. That's why he's a poor tackler. He defends space and does not attack the oppo player with the ball.

 

[CrowBloke]

Somebody with the size and athleticism of Jenkins should be making opposition defenders s**t bricks every time there is a high forward entry where they can't see him in front of them.

This!
With a P.S. to newbie_kimber --- if it's not Jenkins' basketballer's instincts that make him so inconsistent, so soft and ineffective, then what is it?
It's easy to say "Nah, that's not it, the end", but if it isn't then what's the real reason?

 

[Cap]

This!
With a P.S. to newbie_kimber --- if it's not Jenkins' basketballer's instincts that make him so inconsistent, so soft and ineffective, then what is it?
It's easy to say "Nah, that's not it, the end", but if it isn't then what's the real reason?

Inconsistent footballers have been around since football of any category was invented.

 

[jackster83]

This!
With a P.S. to newbie_kimber --- if it's not Jenkins' basketballer's instincts that make him so inconsistent, so soft and ineffective, then what is it?
It's easy to say "Nah, that's not it, the end", but if it isn't then what's the real reason?

Basketball instincts don't make Doedee or Greenwood play bruise free. Seems more like an unwillingness/inability to work on his weaknesses. Just look at his ruck work - it hasn't improved one iota since he came to the club.

 

[CrowBloke]

jackster83 and newbie_kimber both agreed with this:

Inconsistent footballers have been around since football of any category was invented.

possibly because they think that stating the obvious (I mean, ALL players are inconsistent, obviously --- nobody plays to the same high level, every week) shoots down arguments-with-reasons about Jenkins' basketballer's reflexes.

Reasons, all of you, please give reasons why it's irrelevant to how soft and ineffective he can be when he is under pressure, close in, when possession is up for grabs.
He could contest for the loose ball, in packs in the F50, but rarely does. When have you ever seen Jenkins enter a congested group in the F50 and emerge with the ball? He stands back and waits for others to take possession<== basketballer, who receives the ball only.
He rarely tackles <== basketballer, because it's a tackle-free sport.
Even with his size and weight and mobility, he rarely crashes a pack or dishes out a decent bump or shirtfront <== basketballer (you only ever see 2 or 3 basketballers contest a rebound; there's no pack-crashing, no bumps to be dished out).
Watch when Jenkins marks just outside the F50 and there is someone either running past him, or in a better position, closer in. A footballer gives the ball off reflexively, quickly, without thinking. Jenkins goes, "What should I do?", think, think, tick-tick-tick and the quick-give is gone. <== slow to react to a footy opportunity = basketballer.
Yes, he's played footy for 8 years . Yes, inconsistent footballers exist.
BUT
Jenkins' deficiencies in close, not everywhere, which are real and hurting the team this season, stem from his basketballer's reflexes under pressure.

 

[Murray2503]

Out: ROB Lynch Kelly Betts Mackay Seedsman Murphy Hartigan
In: Davis, Gallucci, Greenwood, Stengle, Sholl, Fogarty McHenry Hamill

Laird Talia Sholl
Smith Keath Gibbs
Atkins Sloane Jones
Davis Walker Knight
Mchenry Fogarty Stengle

Jenkins BCrouch Milera

Greenwood MCrouch Hamill Gallucci

What will Don do:
Out ROB Seedsman
In: Jacob's Poholke/Otten

Result for Don's team. North by 4 to 5 goals.