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Toast The Mongrel

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TheHonestyPolicy said:
You sure? But why? This is world class hero stuff day in here today.

Now for the more serious side of this post; isnt this what Richmond tried 10 years after their last flag in 1980 after all that success? Bring back all the old messiahs and it fixes the sinking ship. Funny thing was these guys werent winners or legends any more, in fact they were shadows of their former glory days or once great players were thrust in at the deep end and installed as novice senior coaches. Has a very familiar ring about it and history often repeats eh?

Enjoy the bubble while it lasts.
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For every negative example there's a positive one.

There's plenty to work with at Bomberland.
 
TheHonestyPolicy said:
Maybe and maybe not, time will tell is the obvious point.

But the method of assembling the coaches "at all costs" has been done before and failed, so I am happy to point that out to you at this point :thumbsu:
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IIRC it is the only coaching panel in AFL history to have every member to have played a part in an AFL premiership.

Sure, you can argue that we're putting a lot of emphasis on the farmers instead of the cattle but on the same token, we need to plant the seed before we can take it to harvest! :thumbsu:

Time will tell, 100% agree that there are no guarantees.

P.S. I'm running out of "catch-phrases"! :D
 
TheGodDelusion said:
Bullshit. You're trolling and nothing more. Piss off.
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No I'm not actually. The examples I have listed are all factual. The example of Richmond 20 years ago with the brilliant idea of bringing back past champions is the same. If you dont ever want to discuss something mate, why show up in a forum? And steady on....dont lose your cool now. Dont let the thin veneer of the new Bomber toughness dwindle over night sport :thumbsu: (or in a few minutes)
 

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The Donners said:
IIRC it is the only coaching panel in AFL history to have every member to have played a part in an AFL premiership.

Sure, you can argue that we're putting a lot of emphasis on the farmers instead of the cattle but on the same token, we need to plant the seed before we can take it to harvest! :thumbsu:

Time will tell, 100% agree that there are no guarantees.

P.S. I'm running out of "catch-phrases"! :D
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Sensible post. I am pointing out the negatives sure, but history suggests I should or can. It will be quite some time before anyone really knows.
 
TheHonestyPolicy said:
Maybe and maybe not, time will tell is the obvious point.

But the method of assembling the coaches "at all costs" has been done before and failed, so I am happy to point that out to you at this point :thumbsu:

eg Wallace, Pagan, Blight. All once successful too. The novices speak for themself.
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not great examples, since 1 of them cant coach, the other 2 were coaching teams full of soft players......

malthouse to west coast, blight to crows, matthews to brisbane seemed to work though,,

EDIT: and i guess i may aswell add in the time will tell too...
 
Eleven 38 said:
not great examples, since 1 of them cant coach, the other 2 were coaching teams full of soft players......

malthouse to west coast, blight to crows, matthews to brisbane seemed to work though,,
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You're missing the point mate. All the examples you mentioned worked because of the way the coaches were hired. It wasnt like this is the "be all and end all" fix to it. There was a process in place and there was nothing desperate about it. No one stood on anyone else's toes to hire the examples you mentioned and all the pressure and scrutiny of the football world wasnt brought down on them because of the way they were hired, there was no controversy or lavishness. The fanfare wasnt the same, and you guys cant change that now back to ordinary.
 
Bound 4 september said:
Im sorry but I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. No one is afraid of Essendon they have the worst list in the AFL. The blokes they have recruited as coaches seems to be smart and will improve your club but to think anyone is fearing Essendon is pretty far-fetched
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Your name's meant to be ironic, yeah?

Like a North fan calling themself "Billionaire"
 
TheHonestyPolicy said:
You're missing the point mate. All the examples you mentioned worked because of the way the coaches were hired. It wasnt like this is the "be all and end all" fix to it. There was a process in place and there was nothing desperate about it. No one stood on anyone else's toes to hire the examples you mentioned and all the pressure and scrutiny of the football world wasnt brought down on them because of the way they were hired, there was no controversy or lavishness. The fanfare wasnt the same, and you guys cant change that now back to ordinary.
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If you guys dont mind me putting my two bob worth in...all have valid points, but i think in this case Essendonfc (it's not secret) was in dire trouble in terms of coaching and in terms of on field performance. Obviously it has been in the makings since the end of the Sheeds era...however none of this would have eventuated if Knights (who should never have been picked over Hardwick) should not have rushed out club champions who still had games left in them, and nor should he have had a chop and change policy in terms of games played week in week out!...also should have had a realistic expectation of the list and who was solid in what position, and key being needing a defensive mindset!!

In this case here i think Essendon have gone for the wow factor, in a snap the club does not have to deal with infighting!!...the clubs legends and respected personalities have also been invited back, they want to be back...in terms of Bomber i believe he was quitting even if Hird was not hired as coach of EFC...GFC was going to lose him regardless and the only diff is, he has now chosen to go help a mate/team mate and at the same time has been welcomed back by EFC ppl with open arms...its stiff with what happend to GFC...no one deserves that...after all in sport being open and honest goes a long way...

Anyway before you all fall asleep, my point being EFC have made the right moves here...and i agree with a post above, you need great farmers to plant the seed...we have a few ppl in our coaching line up who have been involved in developing sides from scratch....so we will be well handled and the fact that they are all EssendonFC Champions automatically ensures that they will have a no bull policy....look what Hardwick did at RFC....he is a Champion also!!....EssendonFC ex players @ the realm of footy clubs...Bomber (Ex GFC)/ Hirdy (EFC)/ Mark Harvey (FFC)/ Damien Hardwick (RFC)...so you can see...there is something in the water here...
 
juppy said:
Disagree. I think that the fear is back as people can see the awesome coaching panel and some very talented kids that can form the spine of a great team. Some smart decisions over the next year or two and the sky is the limit.

But I love that the hate is back. And yes shepp, I cherish the Hawthorn rivalry..... especially when we win :D
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It's great. I'm getting it given to me by some mates who are fans of the ferals. Nice change from the piss-taking about our ladder position.

I, too, cherish the Hawthorn rivalry. Any excuse to annoy my brother :o.
 
don patch sword said:
dude your list is worse than ours, i can name only 3 good players in your team, you guys are spuds.
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How old are you mate? Reckon the last time I used the word "dude" would have been in Yr 7.Actually I probably didnt even use it then. Get back to class mate
 

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Bound 4 september said:
How old are you mate? Reckon the last time I used the word "dude" would have been in Yr 7.Actually I probably didnt even use it then. Get back to class mate
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mate gtfo, go troll somewhere else, btw i finished school and btw your team is still shit:thumbsu:
 
TheHonestyPolicy said:
You're missing the point mate. All the examples you mentioned worked because of the way the coaches were hired. It wasnt like this is the "be all and end all" fix to it. There was a process in place and there was nothing desperate about it. No one stood on anyone else's toes to hire the examples you mentioned and all the pressure and scrutiny of the football world wasnt brought down on them because of the way they were hired, there was no controversy or lavishness. The fanfare wasnt the same, and you guys cant change that now back to ordinary.
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It's not ideal; but we got our man & that's the main thing.
That's really going to be the deciding factor in our next few years? The fanfare/media shitstorm over an assistant coach???

Where do these factors rank in importance...
Drafting: important? yes. (massively)
Fitness of key players, yes.
Working out a gameplan, yes.
Development of players, yes.
Getting common belief in a plan, yes.
Geelong fans mad, ?

If the players are good enough, and the coaches able enough; they'll be able to bear this pressure. If they're not, they're not; and a soft introduction won't make a pinch of difference.
 
I wonder what the most intelligent thing ever said was that started with the word :dude. Dude, these are isotopes? Dude, we removed your kidney. You're gonna be fine.Dude, I am so stoked to win this Nobel Prize. I just wanna thank Kevin, and Turtle, and all my homies. - Dimitri Martin.
 

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Slattery_20 said:
It's not ideal; but we got our man & that's the main thing.
That's really going to be the deciding factor in our next few years? The fanfare/media shitstorm over an assistant coach???

Where do these factors rank in importance...
Drafting: important? yes. (massively)
Fitness of key players, yes.
Working out a gameplan, yes.
Development of players, yes.
Getting common belief in a plan, yes.
Geelong fans mad, ?

If the players are good enough, and the coaches able enough; they'll be able to bear this pressure. If they're not, they're not; and a soft introduction won't make a pinch of difference.
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I agree with some of what you say there, but the last paragraph is where we disagree and its largely my point. Low key appointments of even quality coaches has shown to be the best way of doing it. Someone quite rightly brought up Matthews to Lions, Blight to Crows, etc and exactly. The two mentioned were exciting appointments but for positive reasons. Both came back to footy from the media, so no one's nose got out of joint and it was not being splashed over every newspaper day after day.

I defer to your own thread, why are the media acting like wolves? Its selling. The Essendon story is selling, but not for the right reasons and it sticks like mud.

History will show these big appointment of coaches, even if its a favourite son/s returning where there is angst and ongoing media speculation and scrutiny tend to fail badly. I agree we are a long long way from knowing either way but if you want the really bumpy ride, you got it. And saying it wont have any effect on what is largely a failed playing group is naive at best but thanks for your views.
 
TheHonestyPolicy said:
I agree with some of what you say there, but the last paragraph is where we disagree and its largely my point. Low key appointments of even quality coaches has shown to be the best way of doing it. Someone quite rightly brought up Matthews to Lions, Blight to Crows, etc and exactly. The two mentioned were exciting appointments but for positive reasons. Both came back to footy from the media, so no one's nose got out of joint and it was not being splashed over every newspaper day after day.
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Our coach was also in the media last year, are we doing it right?
Comparing coaches to assistants is, even for an uber-assistant who'll initially have a bit more than usual input, apples v oranges.
End of day the other 4 assistants were just as valued & wanted at their clubs, that to me tells me we're doing something right.

TheHonestyPolicy said:
History will show these big appointment of coaches, even if its a favourite son/s returning where there is angst and ongoing media speculation and scrutiny tend to fail badly. I agree we are a long long way from knowing either way but if you want the really bumpy ride, you got it. And saying it wont have any effect on what is largely a failed playing group is naive at best but thanks for your views.
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I'm not saying it won't have any effect.
I just think you're massively, massively over-playing the effect of karma.
Geelong will put the heat on... worst case is we lose by a huge margin... they've beaten us 6 times straight, mostly by huge margins: net effect = sweet fanny adams.
If we're doing shit, we'll be doing shit basically cos half our list is young and half not that good.

Firmly believe the impact of coaching is largely over-rated especailly these days. Get everyone fit, committed you're more than half-way there (even if your game-plan is mental, cf Essendon 07-09). Let alone karma 'cos Bomber did or didn't do this.

IMHO everyone, bar maybe the most strident & anally-retentive Cats fan (who seem to be out in force on the main board), will be over it by halfway through next year
 
Slattery_20 said:
Firmly believe the impact of coaching is largely over-rated especailly these days. Get everyone fit, committed you're more than half-way there (even if your game-plan is mental, cf Essendon 07-09). Let alone karma 'cos Bomber did or didn't do this.
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You reckon if Collingwood were playing the same gameplan we have been- that they would have won a premiership this year?
 
Slattery_20 said:
Our coach was also in the media last year, are we doing it right?
Comparing coaches to assistants is, even for an uber-assistant who'll initially have a bit more than usual input, apples v oranges.
End of day the other 4 assistants were just as valued & wanted at their clubs, that to me tells me we're doing something right.


I'm not saying it won't have any effect.
I just think you're massively, massively over-playing the effect of karma.
Geelong will put the heat on... worst case is we lose by a huge margin... they've beaten us 6 times straight, mostly by huge margins: net effect = sweet fanny adams.
If we're doing shit, we'll be doing shit basically cos half our list is young and half not that good.

Firmly believe the impact of coaching is largely over-rated especailly these days. Get everyone fit, committed you're more than half-way there (even if your game-plan is mental, cf Essendon 07-09). Let alone karma 'cos Bomber did or didn't do this.

IMHO everyone, bar maybe the most strident & anally-retentive Cats fan (who seem to be out in force on the main board), will be over it by halfway through next year
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No, historically speaking coaches out of the media with no coaching experience has not shown to be a sensible appointment. Time will tell.

Unfortunately whilst I appreciate the footy chat and I agree with some of your opinions, you are not really understanding my point still. Its not to do with karma I think you will fail. Its not to do with Geelong trying to beat you up next seaon either. Its about the fact you will have pressure on you from day one now and it wont go away. If you think the pressure will just be perceived, it wont be, because it will be in the media and the players will then be effected by the ongoing dialogue in their everyday life. Every loss unnecessarily magnified.

The vastly more successful approach is to allow a novice coach particularly a few seasons to build the confidence and rapport of the group to deal with the cut and thrust of working together as a competitive unit. What it means is the culture of your organisation will be put on notice from day one. Not being able to build the structures and even the trust properly, weakens the integrity. Its not even so much an opinion mate, its just history. Even favourite sons have failed miserably from this starting point so yes its not ideal in a very big way IMO.
 

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