Toast The Mongrel

[Pevers-Legend]

No, historically speaking coaches out of the media with no coaching experience has not shown to be a sensible appointment. Time will tell.

Historically the Saints beat collingwood in Grand Finals. How did that one go again?

Unfortunately whilst I appreciate the footy chat and I agree with some of your opinions, you are not really understanding my point still. Its not to do with karma I think you will fail. Its not to do with Geelong trying to beat you up next seaon either. Its about the fact you will have pressure on you from day one now and it wont go away. If you think the pressure will just be perceived, it wont be, because it will be in the media and the players will then be effected by the ongoing dialogue in their everyday life. Every loss unnecessarily magnified.

We appointed Knights with little fanfare. How did that go again?

That's right, he was not an Essendon boy and cam from a culture of failure and was on the back foot from day dot. I game him 2 years to get his act together because he exaplained his vision. Once it was clear he had lost his way - the knives came out and righlty so.

Hird and Thompson come from success and are Essendon people. They will have a minimum of 1 year to assess the list and change the gameplan. Survey most dons supporters and they will say they want to see two things to have a satisfactory season: 1) defensive gameplan 2) midfield cohesion / defenisve pressure in the middle.

Other than that, we are under no illusion that Hird will win a flag in year 1. Improvemnt and the cleansing of schizen coaching is all we need.

The vastly more successful approach is to allow a novice coach particularly a few seasons to build the confidence and rapport of the group to deal with the cut and thrust of working together as a competitive unit. What it means is the culture of your organisation will be put on notice from day one. Not being able to build the structures and even the trust properly, weakens the integrity. Its not even so much an opinion mate, its just history. Even favourite sons have failed miserably from this starting point so yes its not ideal in a very big way IMO.

Again - we appointed Knights with little fanfare. How did that go again?

Essendon was a rabble midway through the season. We are now unified and excited. Tell me how these big appointments have been bad for the club?

If your retort relates to expecations as coach - see above - Hird has made it celar what he wants to work on - and these are the areas all the fans have been cyring out for the past 3 years that needed to be worked on. So we are all abord going in one direction.

move along - nothing to see here.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Historically the Saints beat collingwood in Grand Finals. How did that one go again?

We appointed Knights with little fanfare. How did that go again?

That's right, he was not an Essendon boy and cam from a culture of failure and was on the back foot from day dot. I game him 2 years to get his act together because he exaplained his vision. Once it was clear he had lost his way - the knives came out and righlty so.

Hird and Thompson come from success and are Essendon people. They will have a minimum of 1 year to assess the list and change the gameplan. Survey most dons supporters and they will say they want to see two things to have a satisfactory season: 1) defensive gameplan 2) midfield cohesion / defenisve pressure in the middle.

Other than that, we are under no illusion that Hird will win a flag in year 1. Improvemnt and the cleansing of schizen coaching is all we need.



Again - we appointed Knights with little fanfare. How did that go again?

Essendon was a rabble midway through the season. We are now unified and excited. Tell me how these big appointments have been bad for the club?

If your retort relates to expecations as coach - see above - Hird has made it celar what he wants to work on - and these are the areas all the fans have been cyring out for the past 3 years that needed to be worked on. So we are all abord going in one direction.

move along - nothing to see here.

Comparing the fickle uncertainties of 1 footy match to another to months of planning leading to then hiring a coach is not a sensible comparison in my view.

The Knights comparison, again the point is missed. Yes of course its going to be low key given Knights isnt a huge name as a coach. The other point about Knights is, can he coach? I am talking about avoiding the hype when you hire a favourite son/s like Hird and co or a big name coach like a Matthews or Blight or now Thompson. Did you avoid any unnecessary negative hype? No you didnt and thats the point. In fact you went the complete opposite other extreme in this instance. This thread is about saying; hey this is great, I am referring to history. Not the history of one footy match either, but the many you get to play with real scrutiny and how this type of pressure has even lead to once successful and experienced coaches being complete flops elsewhere.

Yes Hird has made it clear what he wants to work on but now he can rest assured he will be in the unenviable position as a rookie coach where the media will scrutinise every little peep now out of Windy Hill for his entire tenure.

Yup Hird and Thompson have shown they can cop it, but to expect your current playing group to absorb that pressure and succeed and to recruit young players in who will also get boiled in that cauldron is simply being in denial IMO.

 

[Slattery_20]

You said you believe coaching to be over-rated. So I queried, with the same cattle, up our dud coach- do you think that they would have won a premiership?

No I don't.
But I do think a good 10 or so of the current (and half a dozen ex-) coaches could've done so.

 

[juppy]

Comparing the fickle uncertainties of 1 footy match to another to months of planning leading to then hiring a coach is not a sensible comparison in my view.

The Knights comparison, again the point is missed. Yes of course its going to be low key given Knights isnt a huge name as a coach. I am talking about avoiding the hype when you hire a favourite son/s like Hird and co or a big name coach like a Matthews or Blight or now Thompson. Did you avoid any unnecessary negative hype? No you didnt and thats the point.
In fact you went the complete opposite other extreme in this instance. This thread is about saying; hey this is great, I am referring to history. Not the history of one footy match either, but the many you get to play.

Yes Hird has made it clear what he wants to work on but now he can rest assured he will be in the unenviable position as a rookie coach where the media will scrutinise every little peep now out of Windy Hill for his tenure.

Yup Hird and Thompson have shown they can cop it, but to expect your current playing group to absorb that pressure and succeed and to recruit young players in who will also get boiled in that cauldron is simple denial.

We were going to be under pressure next year, regardless of the coach. Whoever took up that position is going to be hung out in the media. The beauty of Hird is that he will add to the morale more so than other coaches.

Morale is a very important factor in any workplace, but especially in footy (espec army). Jimmy will bring that, and if he brings does well, things will look up for us. Time will tell. That has been said before and you can pull up stats to say otherwise but that is the only answer they can give.

Its all well and good to throw stones. But have you looked at the stats for coaches in general? How well your new coach is expected to go with the stats? Not very well acording to stats in general. Why do you expect him to succeed and not fail with the aging list and people fleeing because they didnt get a chance? You should be worrying about your own club, not throwing vieled citisisms of our club within posts.

 

[Slattery_20]

Don't be put off, this is a reasonably interesting thread!

Yup Hird and Thompson have shown they can cop it, but to expect your current playing group to absorb that pressure and succeed and to recruit young players in who will also get boiled in that cauldron is simply being in denial IMO.

I don't think anyone's (I'm certainly not) saying the 'current squad' is in any way, shape, or form, ready for serious cracks at anything.
This is just righting the wrongs of the previous appointment and setting in place the right people to find our next side & our next leader.

Its about the fact you will have pressure on you from day one now and it wont go away. If you think the pressure will just be perceived, it wont be, because it will be in the media and the players will then be effected by the ongoing dialogue in their everyday life. Every loss unnecessarily magnified.

All pressure is perceived. If you're not feeling it, it's not happening.
Plenty of pressure on us this year too. Ended up knifing the coach. Hird will, if anything, absorb a bit of that IMHO. People aren't going to question him as much as Knights who was never really a convincing figurehead.

The vastly more successful approach is to allow a novice coach particularly a few seasons to build the confidence and rapport of the group to deal with the cut and thrust of working together as a competitive unit. What it means is the culture of your organisation will be put on notice from day one. Not being able to build the structures and even the trust properly, weakens the integrity. Its not even so much an opinion mate, its just history. Even favourite sons have failed miserably from this starting point so yes its not ideal in a very big way IMO.

Structures! Good-oh.
As a big club we're always going to have that pressure, look at Knights' with about the 4th youngest list this year, finishing 3rd bottom; and was gone.
Hird is (more importantly than coach) the leader we lacked.
The organisation has 100% confidence in him and even in the very, very worst case scenario, will do so for at least 18 months-2 years.
I don't think trust is an issue.
Knights was on the ropes, walking on glass.
Hird will have the balls to front the media and say "this is what is happening, this is why, deal with it" and won't be questioned. Just as Malthouse & Sheedy also, at various times, took the heat for their players.

That, for the young list we have right now, is what we need. An unimpeachable figurehead.
You suggest doing that by finding another (essentially) no-name young guy.
Well, we could, no doubt. But it didn't work last time. And the pressure from about 5 different angles to bring back a 'bombers person' was immense.

History only goes so far.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

We were going to be under pressure next year, regardless of the coach. Whoever took up that position is going to be hung out in the media. The beauty of Hird is that he will add to the morale more so than other coaches.

Morale is a very important factor in any workplace, but especially in footy (espec army). Jimmy will bring that, and if he brings does well, things will look up for us. Time will tell. That has been said before and you can pull up stats to say otherwise but that is the only answer they can give.

Its all well and good to throw stones. But have you looked at the stats for coaches in general? How well your new coach is expected to go with the stats? Not very well acording to stats in general. Why do you expect him to succeed and not fail with the aging list and people fleeing because they didnt get a chance? You should be worrying about your own club, not throwing vieled citisisms of our club within posts.

I agree with everything you just said but its not my point.

Geelong havent brought any undue or unnecessary pressure onto their rookie coach Chris Scott, great move and Essendon have brought as much pressure as you could possibly imagine onto their rookie coach!

I am sure even in your biased fashion you can see the simple glaring difference in this comparison. Its not neurology, just take off the blinkers.

And exactly, Hird brings the morale. Just as other favourite sons returning can bring and still failed due to the negative pressure brought to bear on the club and playing group if the original appointment wasnt handled well.

 

[Slattery_20]

See I can't see how failure or success has anything at all to do with the actual appointment process.

Hird's in the job.
Thompson's his assistant.
If they're good they'll succeed, if they're not they won't.
That, to me, is the end of the story.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Don't be put off, this is a reasonably interesting thread!


I don't think anyone's (I'm certainly not) saying the 'current squad' is in any way, shape, or form, ready for serious cracks at anything.
This is just righting the wrongs of the previous appointment and setting in place the right people to find our next side & our next leader.


All pressure is perceived. If you're not feeling it, it's not happening.
Plenty of pressure on us this year too. Ended up knifing the coach. Hird will, if anything, absorb a bit of that IMHO. People aren't going to question him as much as Knights who was never really a convincing figurehead.


Structures! Good-oh.
As a big club we're always going to have that pressure, look at Knights' with about the 4th youngest list this year, finishing 3rd bottom; and was gone.
Hird is (more importantly than coach) the leader we lacked.
The organisation has 100% confidence in him and even in the very, very worst case scenario, will do so for at least 18 months-2 years.
I don't think trust is an issue.
Knights was on the ropes, walking on glass.
Hird will have the balls to front the media and say "this is what is happening, this is why, deal with it" and won't be questioned. Just as Malthouse & Sheedy also, at various times, took the heat for their players.

That, for the young list we have right now, is what we need. An unimpeachable figurehead.
You suggest doing that by finding another (essentially) no-name young guy.
Well, we could, no doubt. But it didn't work last time. And the pressure from about 5 different angles to bring back a 'bombers person' was immense.

History only goes so far.

An unimpeachable figure head who was involved in the most deceptive campaign I can recall to lure a coach away currently under contract with the unsavoury aspect of it being during what could have been a premiership season. To add to this Essendon tried the same thing on in 2007 which suggests there is no coincidence here. And that successful senior coach now assistant has forever tarnished his reputation severely in the eyes of the football world.

Again, take off the blinkers. I agree history only goes so far. Thompson wont ever be seen again in the same light and if Hird keeps sticking up for him and then flops as a coach, he will go down the same path. Thats pressure.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

See I can't see how failure or success has anything at all to do with the actual appointment process.

Hird's in the job.
Thompson's his assistant.
If they're good they'll succeed, if they're not they won't.
That, to me, is the end of the story.

You're just guessing now, history suggests otherwise but the most practical way of looking at it is bringing unnecessary scrutiny onto a club is never a good thing long term. Do you agree with that? And now you cant ever avoid that with Hird.

 

[juppy]

I agree with everything you just said but its not my point.

Geelong havent brought any undue or unnecessary pressure onto their rookie coach Chris Scott, great move and Essendon have brought as much pressure as you could possibly imagine onto their rookie coach!

I am sure even in your biased fashion you can see the simple glaring difference in this comparison. Its not neurology, just take off the blinkers.

And exactly, Hird brings the morale. Just as other favourite sons returning can bring and still failed due to the negative pressure brought to bear on the club and playing group if the original appointment wasnt handled well.

Yes I can see that but you missed my point.

Pressure = Decreased morale. That is your point. Pressure will affect the club.

Pressure was going to be there anyway, bit more now.

Having Thompson and Hirdy will offset that pressure/decreased morale. Furthermore, having premiership coach will further do that.

You can say favorite sons returning fails, but that is a null argument. You have few examples of favorite suns that reflect the generall patern of coaching success. Statistically, it follows the regular pattern of coaching success. A few people is hardly a great sample size and Jimmy has different qualities to all coaches (goes the other way too, each coach is their own person).

Furthermore, the pressure that the club faces, if handled the right way can be a positive. More people stiving to succeed to proove everyone wrong. Its all about people management which I will trust Jimmy can handle. Different situations = different outcomes.

Anyone with a new coach will be worried.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Yes I can see that but you missed my point.

Pressure = Decreased morale. That is your point. Pressure will affect the club.

Pressure was going to be there anyway, bit more now.

Having Thompson and Hirdy will offset that pressure/decreased morale. Furthermore, having premiership coach will further do that.

You can say favorite sons returning fails, but that is a null argument. You have few examples of favorite suns that reflect the generall patern of coaching success. Statistically, it follows the regular pattern of coaching success. A few people is hardly a great sample size and Jimmy has different qualities to all coaches (goes the other way too, each coach is their own person).

Furthermore, the pressure that the club faces, if handled the right way can be a positive. More people stiving to succeed to proove everyone wrong. Its all about people management which I will trust Jimmy can handle. Different situations = different outcomes.

Anyone with a new coach will be worried.

Much more pressure. In a way your current players arent ready for and the kids coming in cant possibly be expected to cope with. Its happened before to great coaches, experienced coaches under the same circumstances. Doesnt mean I am right, its just a forum after all I cant really add to my current points however.

 

[juppy]

I cant really add to my current points however.

Thats the issue. You say something. People give reasons why they work. Then you repeat your question. Truth is no one knows what is going to happen. We cant add to that point either.

But that goes for your club too. After coming off a sustained period of success your club will have pressure placed upon it like all clubs do after being on top. People expect success and in a couple of years, IMO, you will not be able to give it. Different pressure, same result. How is Geelong going to cope? New young players coming through, aging list, new coach.

Same argument, different type of pressure, same result.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Thats the issue. You say something. People give reasons why they work. Then you repeat your question. Truth is no one knows what is going to happen. We cant add to that point either.

But that goes for your club too. After coming off a sustained period of success your club will have pressure placed upon it like all clubs do after being on top. People expect success and in a couple of years, IMO, you will not be able to give it. Different pressure, same result. How is Geelong going to cope? New young players coming through, aging list, new coach.

Same argument, different type of pressure, same result.

I dont agree with your conclusion, but the rest I did.

Everyone accepts the pressure of playing the National standard, agree. Everyone accepts the scrutiny too, agree.

However....if you think Essendon is currently in the same place relatively speaking to Geelong regarding pressure, I have to say you're dreaming.

Everyone will expect Geelong to have one last swan song next year and after losing Ablett, not win it, then go about the business of rebuilding which given some of our young talent there already might take as little as 3 years, but no longer than 5 say. Scott has the added benefit of a side that can pretty much go auto pilot next year and make the top 4 even after losing Gaz if we have a decent enough run with injuries next season.

Hird wont be given next year and then 3 years after that say minimum without the media world going into a frenzy, drawing every punter into the debate week after week, and creating a firestorm over the playing group.
There is no way after whats happened in the last 3 months you will be given that slack. Again, its not a perceived pressure when people continue the dialogue towards your players that exists in the press. Just ask Bomber what its like when every media person and fan keeps asking you the same question week in week out. An important reason Thompson is now at Essendon is exactly the point I am making, surely you can see that? It can get too much for even experienced men.

 

[juppy]

I dont agree with your conclusion, but the rest I did.

Everyone accepts the pressure of playing the National standard, agree. Everyone accepts the scrutiny too, agree.

However....if you think Essendon is currently in the same place relatively speaking to Geelong regarding pressure, I have to say you're dreaming.

Everyone will expect Geelong to have one last swan song next year and after losing Ablett, not win it, then go about the business of rebuilding which given some of our young talent there already might take as little as 3 years, but no longer than 5 say. Scott has the added benefit of a side that can pretty much go auto pilot next year and make the top 4 even after losing Gaz if we have a decent enough run with injuries next season.

Wow. If my coach accepted the fact to go on auto pilot for a year I would be pissed. What is the point of that? Might make the top 4? If you are not going for a premiership then you should be working towards doing so.That would get him a whole bunch of critisism.

5 years and back up the top? Now whos biased? No predicting how you recruit during this time. I could take 10 years or even 20. Could be 5 but you have no way of knowing.

Point again is no one knows how we are going to go... except the BF crowd apparently. Same with you and your club. I think we have a core goup of kids that a team can be built around. Some good recruiting and we will be up there. No way you can predict that with Geelong.

As far as pressure goes we will have a bit of it next year, but some successive Geelong losses and you guys will become the media bitch. Again, no one knows what will happen. Same conclusion as the other posts, lets play footy and judge them on that.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Wow. If my coach accepted the fact to go on auto pilot for a year I would be pissed. What is the point of that? Might make the top 4? If you are not going for a premiership then you should be working towards doing so.That would get him a whole bunch of critisism.

5 years and back up the top? Now whos biased? No predicting how you recruit during this time. I could take 10 years or even 20. Could be 5 but you have no way of knowing.

Point again is no one knows how we are going to go... except the BF crowd apparently. Same with you and your club. I think we have a core goup of kids that a team can be built around. Some good recruiting and we will be up there. No way you can predict that with Geelong.

As far as pressure goes we will have a bit of it next year, but some successive Geelong losses and you guys will become the media bitch. Again, no one knows what will happen. Same conclusion as the other posts, lets play footy and judge them on that.

I have enjoyed the chat but seriously you guys are clutching at straws and creating ridiculous scenarios to defend poor behaviour from your club now.

Not sure what your definition of auto pilot is mate, but mine is our experienced players wont need as much coaching as yours next year. Suggesting this means we wont be trying to win the premiership next season as a result makes me feel like I am back in primary school. Suggesting just because no one can predict the future exactly means we can create an array of ridiculous scenarios to replace common sense is again rather childish, but hey, everyone's got a view point.

But fair enough, you have decided you dont want to discuss the real topic any longer. The Bombers have brought an unnecessary and unenviable amount of pressure to bear onto their rookie coach and youngish squad next season and in the seasons to come. History suggests this is a cocktail recipe for disaster and I am just pointing that out to you. Whatever the outcome of this forum chat today wont change that fact. Its just a matter of when you decide to deal with the issue and accept reality the negative media attention is here to stay now

 

[juppy]

I have enjoyed the chat but seriously you guys are clutching at straws and creating ridiculous scenarios to defend poor behaviour from your club now.

Not sure what your definition of auto pilot is mate, but mine is our experienced players wont need as much coaching as yours next year. Suggesting this means we wont be trying to win the premiership next season as a result makes me feel like I am back in primary school. Suggesting just because no one can predict the future exactly means we can create an array of ridiculous scenarios to replace common sense is again rather childish, but hey, everyone's got a view point.

But fair enough, you have decided you dont want to discuss the real topic any longer. The Bombers have brought an unnecessary and unenviable amount of pressure to bear onto their rookie coach and youngish squad next season and in the seasons to come. History suggests this is a cocktail recipe for disaster and I am just pointing that out to you. Whatever the outcome of this forum chat today wont change that fact. Its just a matter of when you decide to deal with the issue and accept reality the negative media attention is here to stay now

Yes you have experienced players but if you coach on auto-pilot you will not win a premiership. Didnt last year and probably wont this year. The coach should be implementing a tweaked game plan and the same effort should be put into a team no matter where they are. 100%.

I was dicussing the issue, how Ess will go with the pressure. The answer is no one knows.... except you apparently. You are expecting us to defend your predictions. Easy to defend your own opinion. You just dont like answering some of the same questions that you asked us and act like you have been to the future and seen Essendon fail and Geelong winning premierships in 3 - 5 years. Dont chuck a hissy fit when you get what you give.

Like you said, everyone has a view point. You just dont like, and fail to aknowledge, other peoples.

 

[TheHonestyPolicy]

Yes you have experienced players but if you coach on auto-pilot you will not win a premiership. Didnt last year and probably wont this year. The coach should be implementing a tweaked game plan and the same effort should be put into a team no matter where they are. 100%.

I was dicussing the issue, how Ess will go with the pressure. The answer is no one knows.... except you apparently. You are expecting us to defend your predictions. Easy to defend your own opinion. You just dont like answering some of the same questions that you asked us and act like you have been to the future and seen Essendon fail and Geelong winning premierships in 3 - 5 years. Dont chuck a hissy fit when you get what you give.

Like you said, everyone has a view point. You just dont like, and fail to aknowledge, other peoples.

On a few occasions I have concurred with your view point mate and openly stated this to you and disagreed with others obviously, but you are consistently misconstruing mine. Again your definition of "auto pilot" has nothing to do with what I have written.

I said we can rebuild a side in 3-5 yrs, I didnt mention premiership and I didnt mention game plan either. You are consistently misquoting and misconstruing basic subject matter in an attempt to evade the real topic of conversation. The unnecessary pressure Essendon has brought onto itself by its own misdeeds and how history suggests this is the wrong way to start a new coach's tenure. Dont believe me, then just think about it and consider past examples.
What I am discussing is actually in line with the overall thread topic of this "new direction" being a good thing for the club and I disagree.

I have stated many times "time will tell" so I am not predicting exactly how Essendon will go either, I am merely pointing out historically speaking this is not the way to go about hiring a new coach. You have spent the entire afternoon basically avoiding this simple analogy which is your perogative but now you are trying to ruin a simple chat about footy with ridiculous suggestions of over emotionalism which isnt worth dignifying with a response.

 

[juppy]

I have stated many times "time will tell" so I am not predicting exactly how Essendon will go either, I am merely pointing out historically speaking this is not the way to go about hiring a new coach. You have spent the entire afternoon basically avoiding this simple analogy which is your perogative but now you are trying to ruin a simple chat about footy with ridiculous suggestions of over emotionalism which isnt worth dignifying with a response.

I answered it here. Both untried coach and the increased pressure issue. Basically said with such a small sample size and the limited success of coaches in general, its hard to draw conclusions. Just didnt see the point of repeating myself.

Yes I can see that but you missed my point.

Pressure = Decreased morale. That is your point. Pressure will affect the club.

Pressure was going to be there anyway, bit more now.

Having Thompson and Hirdy will offset that pressure/decreased morale. Furthermore, having premiership coach will further do that.

You can say favorite sons returning fails, but that is a null argument. You have few examples of favorite suns that reflect the generall patern of coaching success. Statistically, it follows the regular pattern of coaching success. A few people is hardly a great sample size and Jimmy has different qualities to all coaches (goes the other way too, each coach is their own person).

Furthermore, the pressure that the club faces, if handled the right way can be a positive. More people stiving to succeed to proove everyone wrong. Its all about people management which I will trust Jimmy can handle. Different situations = different outcomes.

Anyone with a new coach will be worried.

 

[Rack Watts]

**** your logic, Essendon are back.

 

[juppy]

That ^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Ben the Gooner]

See sig.

 

[Archangel]

Disagree. I think that the fear is back as people can see the awesome coaching panel and some very talented kids that can form the spine of a great team. Some smart decisions over the next year or two and the sky is the limit.

But I love that the hate is back. And yes shepp, I cherish the Hawthorn rivalry..... especially when we win

LOL
Funniest thing I've heard all year, you've made my day

 

[Kong]

LOL
Funniest thing I've heard all year, you've made my day

And you've made mine.

Well, actually you haven't, not even close, but cheers, regardless.

 

[Slattery_20]

An unimpeachable figure head who was involved in the most deceptive campaign I can recall to lure a coach away currently under contract with the unsavoury aspect of it being during what could have been a premiership season. To add to this Essendon tried the same thing on in 2007 which suggests there is no coincidence here. And that successful senior coach now assistant has forever tarnished his reputation severely in the eyes of the football world.

That's all your assumption.
From all anyone's got on record, various Essendon people contacted Thompson, he thought about it & only agreed after the season. As you say, we'd contacted him last time as well; this time he said yes.
Anything more is your assumption to which you've added your own colour which, strangely enough, isn't positive for him.

You're just guessing now, history suggests otherwise but the most practical way of looking at it is bringing unnecessary scrutiny onto a club is never a good thing long term.

I'm guessing?
I'm saying if they're good enough, they'll succeed. That, to me, seems a pretty straight-forward scenario.

You're saying it won't matter how good they are, purely because we stepped on toes getting them that automatically, definitively means they'll fail.
I'm suggesting that's a load of frogshit and I can't even follow your logic.

You think Carlton were worried about scrutiny when they were buying players left right and centre? No. You think we were worried about scrutiny with Sheedy's weirdo rants? No. You think Hawks were worried about scrutiny when they frikken choppered in Hudson? No. You think the Pies were worried about being involved with the notorious John Wren back in the 30s? Hell no.
All of those things were what would now be seen by the PC-do-things-by-the-book as outlandish, 'look at me' behaviour.

But you know what, they worked.

And now you cant ever avoid that with Hird.

He's one of the 4 or 5 biggest names (along with Bucks, Carey, Ablett) in football. Was always going to be a big deal.

Thompson wont ever be seen again in the same light and if Hird keeps sticking up for him and then flops as a coach, he will go down the same path. Thats pressure.

People said exactly the same thing about Bomber after he had to sack a player & front the board cos he was boofing said player's missus. That was clearly a very bad situation far out-weighing pulling out of a contract on the scale of moral crimes.

Point is, everyone loves a winner and no-one gives a crap about this stuff a year down the track. If he's good enough, he'll succeed, simple as that.

 

[Kong]

I officially hate this thread.