The most important modern cricketers

[PhatBoy]

Was having a think about this after a random video popped up in my Facebook feed.
Who are the most important modern players (last 30 years or so) to what we see now or recently, mainly in test cricket, in terms of what they did for the fortunes of their country?

I believe Allan Border is the most important player to his country that I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I don’t believe any of Australia’s huge success between 1995 and about 2008 would have been even imaginable without him. Take out Warne, or McGrath, or Waugh, or Ponting, or Taylor, or Gilchrist, and I think australia would have been a lesser side but still a great one and a successful one. Without Border I think it’s debatable whether they ever became the best or even close to it.

Others in the discussion -

Michael Vaughan. I’ve often said that the genesis of England becoming powerful again started with Hussain’s captaincy but he didn’t actually take them to any real heights. Vaughan got them trending upwards in that he gave them a leader who could attack with the bat and knew how to juggle his assets as a captain.

One of those assets was KP. Who is in my eyes the next most important England player I’ve seen. Totally changed the way opponents had to approach playing England and have them a cut and dried player that could set up or win them a match regardless of opposition or venue.

Murali - Sri Lanka to that point had produced a couple of test class batsmen and de Silva is nearly worthy of a place in this sort of discussion but Murali gave them a chance of winning every home test they played. They had never had that before.


Graeme Smith - probably the most obvious one. SA had always been good since readmission but their previous stars and captains hadn’t really led them anywhere significant. Smith’s leadership and ability to make big scores when they mattered was the driving force in them finally taking the step up

Rahul Dravid - not saying he was a better batsman than Tendulkar but it wasn’t until Dravid established himself that they began to genuinely compete away from home and they’ve been more or less able to do it routinely since. He gave them something that they were sorely lacking even if it was just a counterpoint to their one established superstar.

Anyway I’m bored as s**t hence the thread

 

[PhatBoy]

Shakib is another obvious one. You could argue Tamim Iqbal and to a lesser extent Habibul Bashar were the first players to give them any real credibility but Shakib has basically made and kept Bangladesh somewhat relevant since he arrived

 

[Gough]

Was having a think about this after a random video popped up in my Facebook feed.
Who are the most important modern players (last 30 years or so) to what we see now or recently, mainly in test cricket, in terms of what they did for the fortunes of their country?

I believe Allan Border is the most important player to his country that I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I don’t believe any of Australia’s huge success between 1995 and about 2008 would have been even imaginable without him. Take out Warne, or McGrath, or Waugh, or Ponting, or Taylor, or Gilchrist, and I think australia would have been a lesser side but still a great one and a successful one. Without Border I think it’s debatable whether they ever became the best or even close to it.

Others in the discussion -

Michael Vaughan. I’ve often said that the genesis of England becoming powerful again started with Hussain’s captaincy but he didn’t actually take them to any real heights. Vaughan got them trending upwards in that he gave them a leader who could attack with the bat and knew how to juggle his assets as a captain.

One of those assets was KP. Who is in my eyes the next most important England player I’ve seen. Totally changed the way opponents had to approach playing England and have them a cut and dried player that could set up or win them a match regardless of opposition or venue.

Murali - Sri Lanka to that point had produced a couple of test class batsmen and de Silva is nearly worthy of a place in this sort of discussion but Murali gave them a chance of winning every home test they played. They had never had that before.


Graeme Smith - probably the most obvious one. SA had always been good since readmission but their previous stars and captains hadn’t really led them anywhere significant. Smith’s leadership and ability to make big scores when they mattered was the driving force in them finally taking the step up

Rahul Dravid - not saying he was a better batsman than Tendulkar but it wasn’t until Dravid established himself that they began to genuinely compete away from home and they’ve been more or less able to do it routinely since. He gave them something that they were sorely lacking even if it was just a counterpoint to their one established superstar.

Anyway I’m bored as sh*t hence the thread

In Rookie, Rebels and Renaissance Mike Coward called Border the most significant Australian cricketer since Bradman.

 

[PhatBoy]

In Rookie, Rebels and Renaissance Mike Coward called Border the most significant Australian cricketer since Bradman.

It’s very very hard to disagree with that assessment.

It’s easy to just cite his captaincy and there would be a lot of merit in that but his leadership simply as a batsman is mind numbingly impressive given what he got out of himself and what he was generally up against

 

[Gough]

It’s very very hard to disagree with that assessment.

It’s easy to just cite his captaincy and there would be a lot of merit in that but his leadership simply as a batsman is mind numbingly impressive given what he got out of himself and what he was generally up against

Christian Vieri caused some head scratching during a press conference when he was playing in Italy and he said his sporting hero was AB.

 

[PhatBoy]

Christian Vieri caused some head scratching during a press conference when he was playing in Italy and he said his sporting hero was AB.

Hahahahahahaha how good is that

 

[Gethelred]

Was having a think about this after a random video popped up in my Facebook feed.
Who are the most important modern players (last 30 years or so) to what we see now or recently, mainly in test cricket, in terms of what they did for the fortunes of their country?

I believe Allan Border is the most important player to his country that I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I don’t believe any of Australia’s huge success between 1995 and about 2008 would have been even imaginable without him. Take out Warne, or McGrath, or Waugh, or Ponting, or Taylor, or Gilchrist, and I think australia would have been a lesser side but still a great one and a successful one. Without Border I think it’s debatable whether they ever became the best or even close to it.

Others in the discussion -

Michael Vaughan. I’ve often said that the genesis of England becoming powerful again started with Hussain’s captaincy but he didn’t actually take them to any real heights. Vaughan got them trending upwards in that he gave them a leader who could attack with the bat and knew how to juggle his assets as a captain.

One of those assets was KP. Who is in my eyes the next most important England player I’ve seen. Totally changed the way opponents had to approach playing England and have them a cut and dried player that could set up or win them a match regardless of opposition or venue.

Murali - Sri Lanka to that point had produced a couple of test class batsmen and de Silva is nearly worthy of a place in this sort of discussion but Murali gave them a chance of winning every home test they played. They had never had that before.


Graeme Smith - probably the most obvious one. SA had always been good since readmission but their previous stars and captains hadn’t really led them anywhere significant. Smith’s leadership and ability to make big scores when they mattered was the driving force in them finally taking the step up

Rahul Dravid - not saying he was a better batsman than Tendulkar but it wasn’t until Dravid established himself that they began to genuinely compete away from home and they’ve been more or less able to do it routinely since. He gave them something that they were sorely lacking even if it was just a counterpoint to their one established superstar.

Anyway I’m bored as sh*t hence the thread

I'd argue Gilchrist is significantly more important to world cricket than Border was for Australia.

Border was everything you say he was, but Gilchrist made batting an essential part of a keeper's role. No longer could you have a bloke who would chip in with a fighting 50 here and there; before his fall (IMO, he went on at least 4 years too long. If he'd retired when his decline started, he'd have averaged in the late 40's) it's arguable that there was no player better in the world for a period of about two-three years.

It's why it's kind of ironic that while Australia have been so scarred by Flintoff, England have been so intent on finding a player to match Gilchrist that they've latched onto anyone who could hold a bat and keep that they've three of them. Gilchrist foreshadowed Boucher, McCullum, Dhoni, Butler, Prior, Bairstow, De Kock, Sangakarra, De Villiers, Haddin.

While there were talented sticks who could keep before him, it wasn't considered necessary until he rewrote the rules.

 

[PhatBoy]

I'd argue Gilchrist is significantly more important to world cricket than Border was for Australia.

Border was everything you say he was, but Gilchrist made batting an essential part of a keeper's role. No longer could you have a bloke who would chip in with a fighting 50 here and there; before his fall (IMO, he went on at least 4 years too long. If he'd retired when his decline started, he'd have averaged in the late 40's) it's arguable that there was no player better in the world for a period of about two-three years.

It's why it's kind of ironic that while Australia have been so scarred by Flintoff, England have been so intent on finding a player to match Gilchrist that they've latched onto anyone who could hold a bat and keep that they've three of them. Gilchrist foreshadowed Boucher, McCullum, Dhoni, Butler, Prior, Bairstow, De Kock, Sangakarra, De Villiers, Haddin.

While there were talented sticks who could keep before him, it wasn't considered necessary until he rewrote the rules.

I’d have nominated Gilchrist as the next most important but I think without Border it’s debatable whether Gilchrist would have even had a reasonable austtalia team to go into.

I was kind of referencing moreso the importance of players to their nation and by extension the world cricket landscape but your logic is good and by extension I’d say Sanath Jayasuriya/Mark Greatbatch/Romesh Kaluwitharana are up there as well

 

[Gethelred]

I’d have nominated Gilchrist as the next most important but I think without Border it’s debatable whether Gilchrist would have even had a reasonable austtalia team to go into.

I was kind of referencing moreso the importance of players to their nation and by extension the world cricket landscape but your logic is good and by extension I’d say Sanath Jayasuriya/Mark Greatbatch/Romesh Kaluwitharana are up there as well

I'm a mite surprised you didn't put Sir Viv on your list.

It's probably overdone by now, but you should probably chuck Kerry Packer in there. Not a cricketer per say, but that didn't stop him from creating modern broadcast rights, pajama cricket and foreshadowing the behemoth that is Fox's sporting empire.

 

[PhatBoy]

I'm a mite surprised you didn't put Sir Viv on your list.

It's probably overdone by now, but you should probably chuck Kerry Packer in there. Not a cricketer per say, but that didn't stop him from creating modern broadcast rights, pajama cricket and foreshadowing the behemoth that is Fox's sporting empire.

Probably just falls out of the time frame in which I’m talking but also I think because his approach to both one day and test cricket didn’t really seem to have many emulators - quite possibly because he was just that good that no one bothered to try and copy him.

There were a handful of other players who could occasionally do it; Botham, Dev, Ian Smith even was capable of some ultra aggressive batting but it was so out of the box the way Viv played almost every time he went out to bat that I just don’t think people thought it was worth the risk.

I’d argue that in a global sense in the sport, someone like Dean Jones made a bigger impact because he was a bona fide proper test batsman who suddenly pioneered this way of batting in one day cricket that blended aggressive stroke making with lots of quick singles and twos and within a few years most teams had a player of similar ilk: Bevan, Rhodes, Ajay Jadeja from memory played a bit like that, Chris Harris eventually took that role for NZ

 

[footyfan1978]

I'm a mite surprised you didn't put Sir Viv on your list.

It's probably overdone by now, but you should probably chuck Kerry Packer in there. Not a cricketer per say, but that didn't stop him from creating modern broadcast rights, pajama cricket and foreshadowing the behemoth that is Fox's sporting empire.

He said 30 years so if it was 50 years he wanted to know about it would be Packer.
Limit it to only 30 and it clearly Warne.
He inspired so many cricketers at all levels to take up leg spin bowling or spin of any type it changed the direction of cricket in this modern era.
Before he showed up, spinners were just a reluctant inclusion it a lot of sides. It flowed through to every format of the sport and now people so see spinners as potential match winners. Before he turned up they were there for variety only rather than see as possible match winners.

 

[PhatBoy]

He said 30 years so if it was 50 years he wanted to know about it would be Packer.
Limit it to only 30 and it clearly Warne.
He inspired so many cricketers at all levels to take up leg spin bowling or spin of any type it changed the direction of cricket in this modern era.
Before he showed up, spinners were just a reluctant inclusion it a lot of sides. It flowed through to every format of the sport and now people so see spinners as potential match winners. Before he turned up they were there for variety only rather than see as possible match winners.

Mmm I dunno about that. Not minimising his impact he was colossal but india had already been through an era where they would very occasionally pick four of them. Abdul Qadir kept leg spin alive for a decade, Mushtaq Ahmed was a big part of Pakistan’s World Cup win, and Murali debuted only 6 months after Warne from memory. Kumble I think debuted before him. So those three sides weren’t really impacted by him

West Indies persisted with four quicks and the occasional all rounder until they physically couldn’t do it any more - names like Reon King, Merv Dillon, Franklyn Rose, Patterson Thompson, Marlon Black, Pedro Collins, Corey Collymore, they were all an attempt to keep the production line going. SA had Paul Adams In and out for a while but even up until Maharaj they were trying dry spinners simply as a means of giving their fast bowling battery a break. England I think tried to find blokes to match Warne to an extent but already had Tuffers and then Peter Such who had a modicum of success in 1993.

I think warne’s influence was far more profound in the Australian psyche than the selection rooms and junior development programs of the other nations

 

[Outshined]

Most of the major ones have been mentioned already and I'm probably over-estimating his influence, but Dan Vettori held NZ together for a long time and I'd argue at least played some part in laying the foundation for their recent successes.

Not in the Border, KP or G.Smith class of course, but influential nonetheless.

 

[footyfan1978]

Mmm I dunno about that. Not minimising his impact he was colossal but india had already been through an era where they would very occasionally pick four of them. Abdul Qadir kept leg spin alive for a decade

Abdul Qadir was seen as an exotic interesting personality and fun bowler but cricket was not even remotely adjusted with his presence.
India had spinners but nobody that really excited me to watch and we did not see them much anyway. I remember name Bishen Bedi with turban but never really saw much of him as he was playing Australia whilst I was watching World Series Cricket. Derek Underwood was best spinner in WSC. Aussies had Ray Bright. Qadir was only sexy spinner before Warne but did not change cricket.
The usual spinners that were trotted out were the Phil Edmonds types, Miller, Tuffers, John Bracewell, Murray Bennett, Peter Taylor etc Doshi for India I remember the name but can not even picture what he bowled now.
Bruce Yardley and Qadir were only ones that really had any type of sex appeal in terms of spinning craft for casual observer in 80's that comes readily to mind. Neither were changing the sport though on any real sense.
Warne come along and it was this crazy adjustment where a spinner could even have a big say in first innings. I do not think you can understand the quantum shift in thinking it had on sport. Not just in Australia but worldwide. It taught captains to think differently too and it changed team selections tactics in a big way. No more were the Phil Edmonds types that there to hold up an end the type of role most spinners seen as. Now, teams were looking to develop spinners to become match winners which was a rare thought in the 80's.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

I’ll nominate Ricky Ponting and Jonty Rhodes, both for Fielding. They showed that fielding could be a weapon in a teams arsenal.

 

[Gough]

Problem with Edmonds was that he was decent but pretty much only Brearley could handle him. The ex missus wrote a couple of decent books though.

 

[PhatBoy]

Abdul Qadir was seen as an exotic interesting personality and fun bowler but cricket was not even remotely adjusted with his presence.
India had spinners but nobody that really excited me to watch and we did not see them much anyway. I remember name Bishen Bedi with turban but never really saw much of him as he was playing Australia whilst I was watching World Series Cricket. Derek Underwood was best spinner in WSC. Aussies had Ray Bright. Qadir was only sexy spinner before Warne but did not change cricket.
The usual spinners that were trotted out were the Phil Edmonds types, Miller, Tuffers, John Bracewell, Murray Bennett, Peter Taylor etc Doshi for India I remember the name but can not even picture what he bowled now.
Bruce Yardley and Qadir were only ones that really had any type of sex appeal in terms of spinning craft for casual observer in 80's that comes readily to mind. Neither were changing the sport though on any real sense.
Warne come along and it was this crazy adjustment where a spinner could even have a big say in first innings. I do not think you can understand the quantum shift in thinking it had on sport. Not just in Australia but worldwide. It taught captains to think differently too and it changed team selections tactics in a big way. No more were the Phil Edmonds types that there to hold up an end the type of role most spinners seen as. Now, teams were looking to develop spinners to become match winners which was a rare thought in the 80's.

I agree 100 per cent about how Warne was perceived and suddenly every kid was trying to bowl leg spin I just don’t really think it ultimately had a big impact on how teams were picked or approached the game. I would even argue that in terms of international cricket a bowler like Saqlain had more of an impact because suddenly every off spinner had to have a ball that went the other way

Maybe with Warne it was a bit of the Viv syndrome where he was just so good that pretty quickly teams realised that finding an equivalent to him wasn’t going to be easy

I completely get what you’re saying he absolutely made spin exciting and an attacking weapon I just don’t think a lot of teams saw him and suddenly tried to change their approach to match what he was doing for australia

 

[footyfan1978]

I’ll nominate Ricky Ponting and Jonty Rhodes, both for Fielding. They showed that fielding could be a weapon in a teams arsenal.

They did not change it though. Viv Richards had already showed brilliant fielding was a weapon such as in the early World Cups. I think he had 3 or 4 runouts in one World Cup final before my time. Poms had Derek Randall. Harper and Logie were classy weapons in field too.
Javed Miandad for Pakistan.

 

[PhatBoy]

I’ll nominate Ricky Ponting and Jonty Rhodes, both for Fielding. They showed that fielding could be a weapon in a teams arsenal.

Yeah there’s a few articles that pop up every now and then that talk about how Rhodes running out Inzy at the World Cup changed one day cricket in particular forever as far as fielding standards go

 

[Jim Prideaux]

They did not change it though. Viv Richards had already showed brilliant fielding was a weapon such as in the early World Cups. I think he had 3 or 4 runouts in one World Cup final before my time. Poms had Derek Randall. Harper and Logie were classy weapons in field too.
Javed Miandad for Pakistan.

Disagree, Rhodes and Ponting took it to a whole new level of professionalism.

 

[Gough]

Not a player but Dav Whatmore and his reimagining of one day cricket in the 90s with Sri Lanka arguably led to the creation of T20 cricket.

Disagree, Rhodes and Ponting took it to a whole new level of professionalism.

Bobby Simpson was the first to run fielding drills in training that I can remember, it would be remiss to give AB a shout out and ignore him.

 

[footyfan1978]

Disagree, Rhodes and Ponting took it to a whole new level of professionalism.

They probably worked on the fielding more than many others but the actual art of fielding on match day, we'd already seen what Viv Richards and others could do that change course of a game with 2 or 3 brilliant bits of fielding in short space of time in the decades before that.

 

[RohitSharma]

Jasprit Bumrah Shami myself and Pant made it possible of us to beat Aussies in their home shore twice in a row

 

[Trojan90]

Gilly was the first to come to mind the way he changed the role of keeper/batsman worldwide.

Applying the context of what they did in terms of their countries futures. Graeme Smith, who was mentioned seemed the obvious one to me.

I would add Brendan McCullum to the discussion, to get NZ to where they are now. Could argue Williamson but the transition seemed to have occurred under McCullum.

 

[ioppolo]

Sanath Jayasuriya and Sri Lanka's idea to attack the new ball in ODI's