The Movie Thread

[lenny20]

I tell ya, i've been thinking about starting a cinema/movie thread for a while now. Always held out because I thought it would be filled with spoilers and devoid of quality discussion.

Apocalypse Now vs Platoon vs Full Metal Jacket vs Deer Hunter. Which is the greatest Vietnam war movie?

#1. The first half of Full Metal Jacket
#2. Apocalypse Now
#3. Deer Hunter
#4. Platoon
#5. The second half of FMJ

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I forgot to mention Paul Thomas Anderson. After The Master comes out at the end of the year I suspect we'll be hearing his name bandied around with the greats.

Yuck. Another one I can't stand. His films are like the Oscars themselves, I find myself just wishing they'd get it over with. Which is a shame because he has ability, he is just way too self-indulgent for mine.

 

[Old Spice]

nobody can, was definitely a one of a kind that's for sure.
You sound as though creativity at it's finest is a turn on (not the sexual-kind), you probably seen Last Tango in Paris?
Terrible, terrible film
but if you ever wanted to see a person put themselves through torment and humiliation while at the same time, manage to take their craft to yet another level of excellence....you should watch that one.
Haven't seen it for years now but he was quite brilliant from start to finish.

The man was the master of charisma. I love this scene of him talking French.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

I tell ya, i've been thinking about starting a cinema/movie thread for a while now. Always held out because I thought it would be filled with spoilers and devoid of quality discussion.

Apocalypse Now vs Platoon vs Full Metal Jacket vs Deer Hunter. Which is the greatest Vietnam war movie?

Apocalypse Now
Full Metal Jacket
Platoon
Deerhunter

The Vietnam War almost seems incidental to Apocalypse Now, though I suppose you could say that about any great film. Almost inevitably, they transcend the particulars of setting and plot. Never been that fond of Deerhunter, and though I reckon Kubrick is often overrated, Full Metal Jacket is one of his best.

 

[Old Spice]

I forgot to mention Paul Thomas Anderson. After The Master comes out at the end of the year I suspect we'll be hearing his name bandied around with the greats.

I liked the first half of The Master, but then it just really crapped out.

On my Vietnam films:

The Deer Hunter
Apolcalypse Now
The Killing Fields
Full Metal Jacket

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

There's volume, there's quality, and then there's brilliance. Hitchcock made a certain type of film, and he is brilliant, but I'd rate Apocalypse Now and the Godfathers I and II as films I'd much rather see.

We're a bit Anglo-Centric here in the conversation. I love Les Mepris by Jean Luc Goddard, it its perhaps one of my favourite movies despite the fact I had to read sub-titles. His mastery of the frame is unbelievable, so is Fellini or Bergman - who was the stylistic father of them all. Like De Chirico in motion.

On Quicky's question about the best Vietnam war film, I'll say and perhaps contradict myself by saying The Deer Hunter is the best.

Godard worshipped Hitchcock, and regarded him as by far the greatest director of all time, as did his French New Wave contemporary Francois Truffaut. Godard once wrote: "If Alfred Hitchcock was the only accursed poet to meet success it is because he was the greatest creator of form in the 20th century".

Truffaut's The 400 Blows, or Jules and Jim are amazing films, as is Godard's Breathless (in addition to the aforementioned Contempt). 8 1/2, La Dolce Vita, Amarcord and Satyricon are masterpieces from Fellini, and while I don't particularly enjoy watching Bergman's work, The Seventh Seal had a lasting effect on cinema that can't be denied.

I don't see how you can say Hitchcock made "a certain type of film"... Psycho, North By Northwest and Rebecca are all similar films? I would say that that range is about as diverse as any filmmaker can have. Yes, he loaded up on suspense and thrillers, often centering around murder mystery, but there are many examples of films that don't fit into those moulds.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

If we're talking great directors, then I'll nominate Terrence Malick. Badlands, Days of Heaven, Thin Red Line and The New World. All authentic masterpieces IMO.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Apocalypse Now
Full Metal Jacket
Platoon
Deerhunter

The Vietnam War almost seems incidental to Apocalypse Now, though I suppose you could say that about any great film. Almost inevitably, they transcend the particulars of setting and plot. Never been that fond of Deerhunter, and though I reckon Kubrick is often overrated, Full Metal Jacket is one of his best.

That's because it was an unnecessarily transposed film adaptation of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. One of the worst decisions Coppola made on that production was to actually change the setting to the Vietnam War - If he had left it as it was originally written, set at the turn of the century in the Belgian Congo, it still would have been an unmistakable allegory for the Vietnam War.

 

[lenny20]

Has anybody seen Killing Them Softly yet? Hometown boy made good, it would seem.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

That's because it was an unnecessarily transposed film adaptation of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. One of the worst decisions Coppola made on that production was to actually change the setting to the Vietnam War - If he had left it as it was originally written, set at the turn of the century in the Belgian Congo, it still would have been an unmistakable allegory for the Vietnam War.

Yes, I realise that it was an adaptation of Heart of Darkness. And I don't think the Vietnam setting detracts, but it is the setting not the subject matter, in a way that that it isn't in the other three films mentioned, which is why, in my mind, it sits slightly askew in a discussion of Vietnam War films.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Has anybody seen Killing Them Softly yet? Hometown boy made good, it would seem.

No, but I can't wait. The Assassination of Jesse James is one of the best films I've seen in years.

 

[Old Spice]

You can't make a better allegory for the Vietnam War than setting it in South East Asia. Heart of Darkness was the pretext, but there were movies like that such as Zulu which never translated. They just became lame period action dramas.

Looking at the top films of all time, depending on the list, I see Citizen Kane rates very high. I never liked the movie, same as Rebel Without A Cause. They go into the over-rated category, like The Searchers. Ordinary.

 

[Quicky]

#1. The first half of Full Metal Jacket
#2. Apocalypse Now
#3. Deer Hunter
#4. Platoon
#5. The second half of FMJ

Apocalypse Now
Full Metal Jacket
Platoon
Deerhunter

The Vietnam War almost seems incidental to Apocalypse Now, though I suppose you could say that about any great film. Almost inevitably, they transcend the particulars of setting and plot. Never been that fond of Deerhunter, and though I reckon Kubrick is often overrated, Full Metal Jacket is one of his best.

FWIW -

1) Full Metal Jacket (I like both parts)
2) Platoon
3) Deer Hunter
4) Apocalypse Now

I'd put the diddy mow (Russian Roulette) scene from Deer Hunter up there with the best scenes in cinema though. Deer Hunter I found really interesting and hard to swallow the first time because it is so dark and long but am keen to re-watch. I suspect it would be higher if id re-watched it.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Yes, I realise that it was an adaptation of Heart of Darkness. And I don't think the Vietnam setting detracts, but it is the setting not the subject matter, in a way that that it isn't in the other three films mentioned, which is why, in my mind, it sits slightly askew in a discussion of Vietnam War films.

Well, the psychological impact of the war is the subject matter, it just doesn't focus on the fighting itself, but The Deer Hunter has a very different focus in that respect too.

Platoon is THE Vietnam War movie, IMO. The others have their elements that give them tremendous value as well, but Platoon is the only one that has the guts to actually be IN the war, and that's not surprising given that Oliver Stone was the only director of the four movies we're discussing who was actually there.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

You can't make a better allegory for the Vietnam War than setting it in South East Asia. Heart of Darkness was the pretext, but there were movies like that such as Zulu which never translated. They just became lame period action dramas.

It's not an allegory when it's literally set in the place it's representing... It's just about that. The allusion would have worked better.

As it stands, Apocalypse Now is moving and gripping, but there are a lot of elements to that movie that either don't fit together, or don't really work ultimately - It's a mess in a lot of ways, while still being an incredible movie.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Well, the psychological impact of the war is the subject matter, it just doesn't focus on the fighting itself, but The Deer Hunter has a very different focus in that respect too.

The psychological impact of war, no doubt. Of the Vietnam War specifically? Not to my mind. But then we're probably cavilling over the ninth part of a hair.

Platoon is THE Vietnam War movie, IMO. The others have their elements that give them tremendous value as well, but Platoon is the only one that has the guts to actually be IN the war, and that's not surprising given that Oliver Stone was the only director of the four movies we're discussing who was actually there.

Platoon is undervalued because it is Oliver Stone. He doesn't have the cachet that some other directors have.

 

[Old Spice]

Godard worshipped Hitchcock, and regarded him as by far the greatest director of all time, as did his French New Wave contemporary Francois Truffaut.

Truffaut's The 400 Blows, or Jules and Jim are amazing films, as is Godard's Breathless (in addition to the aforementioned Contempt). 8 1/2, La Dolce Vita, Amarcord and Satyricon are masterpieces from Fellini, and while I don't particularly enjoy watching Bergman's work, The Seventh Seal had a lasting effect on cinema that can't be denied.

I don't see how you can say Hitchcock made "a certain type of film"... Psycho, North By Northwest and Rebecca are all similar films? I would say that that range is about as diverse as any filmmaker can have. Yes, he loaded up on suspense and thrillers, often centering around murder mystery, but there are many examples of films that don't fit into those moulds.

Jules et Jim is for me a pretty boring film. Breathless I didn't particularly like either. Les Mepris, I really like for it's cinematic qualities. I'm a aesthete, I love Matisse and I love form, and for that reason I love Bergman as a master stylist.

Hitchcock's movies were overwhelmingly plot driven but also cinematically good. He was a master of his craft, but for me not a master story teller through image. He's great with imagery, but only to underscore a point in the plot

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Jules et Jim is for me a pretty boring film. Breathless I didn't particularly like either. Les Mepris, I really like for it's cinematic qualities. I'm a aesthete, I love Matisse and I love form, an for that reason I love Bergmanas a master stylist.

Hitchcock's movies were overwhelmingly plot driven but also cinemtacially good. He was a master of his craft, but for me not a master story telliner through image.

Don't really like Breathless either.

If you appreciate a painterly approach to filmmaking, OS, you must like Malick. That is his strong suit -- to the detriment of his own films at times (Tree of Life).

 

[Old Spice]

It's not an allegory when it's literally set in the place it's representing... It's just about that. The allusion would have worked better.

As it stands, Apocalypse Now is moving and gripping, but there are a lot of elements to that movie that either don't fit together, or don't really work ultimately - It's a mess in a lot of ways, while still being an incredible movie.

South East Asia is not Vietnam. An allegory is a representation of something to make a statement about an issue. Using some other geographic or historical context misses the directness that the film was trying to portray.

I know Copalla had to re-write the end of the movie because Brando turned up fat on the set, but which elements don't fit together?

 

[Old Spice]

Don't really like Breathless either.

If you appreciate a painterly approach to filmmaking, OS, you must like Malick. That is his strong suit -- to the detriment of his own films at times (Tree of Life).

I haven't seen Tree of Life, but watching The Movie Show the other night, I really want to see Days of Heaven. That looks incredible. The Thin Red Line was a great film and I always loved Dirty Harry. The rest I haven't seen.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

I haven't seen Tree of Life, but watching The Movie Show the other night, I really want to see Days of Heaven. That looks incredible. The Thin Red Line was a great film and I always loved Dirty Harry. The rest I haven't seen.

Days of Heaven is a great film, and TTRL is probably my favourite film.

(Dirty Harry is Don Seigel.)

 

[Old Spice]

Days of Heaven is a great film, and TTRL is probably my favourite film.

(Dirty Harry is Don Seigel.)

Ahh, Malick wrote a draft for the film. Damn you wikipedia!

The cinematography for Days of Heaven is pretty amazing looking. That locust plague.

 

[ipswichpies]

I find many of Scorcese's films are impressive, but few lovable.

Suspect I'm swimming against the tide on this one, but Coppola for me too. Godfathers I & II, Apocalypse Now, The Conversation. He was on one of the hottest streaks in cinema history in the 70s.

Mate I am glad you mentioned the "conversation" a brilliant film and Hackman was never better on film.

The 70,s were a fantastic decade for film making all around the world but none more so than the US it is just a pity that they don,t approached that standard these days.

 

[Williamc99]

There's just something about older films that the newer ones don't have. A certain charm to them. I find the same with black and white films as well. They just don't make them like they used to.

 

[ipswichpies]

God I missed the boat on this thread last night,I have only just seen this thread,to read of people speaking about Mallick,Scorsese and Coppola not to mention Polanski there were truly great filmakers all around the globe the Italians were still at the peak of their powers then.To the fella who say,s Brando was the greatest actor on film !00% agree watch him and Steiger in the car in on the waterfront and it does not get any better.

Sorry for the late additions to this thread but I will definitely be following this thread in future.