The more the draft gets tampered with, the more I think this should just happen.
It's already a cluster*, just let the club's keep the players they developed.
Opinion The National Draft... is not really a National Draft?
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It's already a cluster*, just let the club's keep the players they developed.
- May 3, 2007
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Keep the father son system. Keep the academy system too.
People for get the academy system started around 2005 ish to help Queensland and NSW footy. SA, WA and Vic sides didn't have academy systems because their local leagues of SANFL, WAFL, VFL and tac cup produced local talent.
WA only draft like the AFLW would be great for both Perth teams.
Queensland and New South Wales don't need help. We don't care if they produce good players or not. AFL is the elite competition in Australia, if they want to play some backwards sport liek rugby or soccer, power to them.
QBE kicked off the Swans Academy.
- May 3, 2007
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Always knew QBE wasn't just a sponsor.
I mean the NSW state league isn't as good as the WAFL isn't it?
The opposite of this, no player should ever have to play for an AFL franchise.
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Your club has benefited from both, getting access to academy picks that landed top five picks in Heeney, Mills and now Campbell (all top five) even though in some of those years the swans were playing finals. Blakey, at top ten pick, a complete rort when if anything he should have landed at north as a father/son pick.
And then the swans were able to use their salary cap advantages to lure Franklin, Tippett and Lockett. The justification for the academy picks was that the swans lost players due to the fact that they are not a traditional AFL state, but that hasn't been the way it has played out.
The powerful Victorian clubs are already paying the bills for the AFL franchises in NSW and Queensland, look at the AFL distributions to GWS and GCS. They shouldn't then have to be significantly disadvantaged due to the special category access the AFL has designed for these clubs to junior talent.
- Apr 3, 2016
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never let the truth get in the way of vic conspiracy theories...
Dr Tigris
Brownlow Medallist
I like the idea of a draft in terms of greater equality.
Father son is great. Only a few players, and the current system seems to work fairly well. It creates a lovely story for the sons of players.
Academies. Northern ones should stay pretty much as is, to help develop the systems ad player pools there. Once we start seeing more equal numbers of players then change the system. NGA don't make much sense, unless they go all in. To equalise it I'd simply give the non-northern team a few extra points to use each year in trades. Nothing major, but a little fillip to help on the side.
The bigger issue is ensuring greater equality of development. Teams with good development effectively have a major advantage in the draft. And that is around professional administration, club culture and mentoring.
Father son is great. Only a few players, and the current system seems to work fairly well. It creates a lovely story for the sons of players.
Academies. Northern ones should stay pretty much as is, to help develop the systems ad player pools there. Once we start seeing more equal numbers of players then change the system. NGA don't make much sense, unless they go all in. To equalise it I'd simply give the non-northern team a few extra points to use each year in trades. Nothing major, but a little fillip to help on the side.
The bigger issue is ensuring greater equality of development. Teams with good development effectively have a major advantage in the draft. And that is around professional administration, club culture and mentoring.
The whole thing has becaome too complex. Every time an issue is foiund they add new things to try and get around, Go back to basics. Control equity throguh the salary cap and that's it.
Remove the draft, reduce the cap floor. Remove all the allowances, banking, and stuff in the cap. And crack down hard on breaches, with no excuses for unexpcted bonus clauses etc - everything within the cap. Bad teams have more money to attract better players, youth or not.
If you breach you lose cap space for a few years, e.g. go 500k over one year, for the the next five years you work in a cap 1.5m less.
Remove the draft, reduce the cap floor. Remove all the allowances, banking, and stuff in the cap. And crack down hard on breaches, with no excuses for unexpcted bonus clauses etc - everything within the cap. Bad teams have more money to attract better players, youth or not.
If you breach you lose cap space for a few years, e.g. go 500k over one year, for the the next five years you work in a cap 1.5m less.
None of that happened, re-write history and then explain it away as a conspiracy theory.
You've the lost argument already.
- May 3, 2007
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the NSW and Queensland academys made sense. The QAFL and NEAFL isn't as strong as the SANFL, WAFL or VFL.
Also..... Remind me of GWS and gold coast father son picks?
TheBigLeftBoot
Rookie
- Mar 18, 2014
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There's 3 key problems with the draft
1. The creation of draft points has created a second class of draft picks - picks when used as points are valued differently than when used for picks. This results in clubs trying to gain an advantage over the rest of the competition by completing lopsided trades with others that don't value certain picks as highly. Some clubs such as Gold Coast, Sydney and GWS don't seem to value second round picks as highly as others due to academy players being available every year. Geelong for example have made a couple of lopsided trades with GC which has resulted in the following: 2019 pick 27, 2021 3rd Rounder (MELB) <> 2019 pick 58, 2020 picks 15 & 32.
Solution: Clubs with Northern Academies can pre-list players onto their main list directly without going into the draft. However these four clubs cannot carry their own selections in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. They will however recieve draft points based on their finishing position to the value of where their 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds picks would have been in the draft order combined. Bids on Northern academy talent will occur prior to the trade period and can be paid for using draft points. Once a bid is made clubs can pay for the player with the exact value of draft points coming off the clubs total of points balance. No discounts. Any remaining points can be traded for players, draft picks or carried over into the following season. Penalties to apply for carrying a points deficit e.g sliding back of first round pick.
NGA rules have already changed, however I would prefer the eligibility criteria to be further tightened. Player must be born overseas plus one or both parents must also have been born overseas or if player was born in Australia but both parents and a sibling were born overseas. Also eligible Indigenous Australians must be from remote communities not regional towns.
2. FA Compensation
Need a better system with compensation. Still need it so that bottom teams don't get raided, however having too many compensation picks dilute the draft.
Solution:
Tighten the Band levels
Start with Tier one first round compensation Top 1%.
The Elite.. Must be in the top 8 players in the competition as per salary.
Tier 2 Top 10% - second round pick
Tier 3 Top 25% - draft points to the value of your third round pick
Tier 4 Not in top 25% - No compensation
Encourage the trading for RFA by allowing clubs to use a pick in any round two years into the future in a transaction involving a RFA where an offer is matched. That pick can't be used in any other deal. Relax the two in four year first round rule to 5 picks in 4 years in the first two rounds to accommodate this change.
3. Mid season draft
Don't like clubs using it to list 19 year old players that were overlooked in the previous draft. It also devalues state leagues.
Solution:
Scrap it. Replace it with a Free Agency Window for previously AFL listed players. These players can sign with their club of choice however if retained for the following must go through a bidding process in the national draft later that year. Allow players to opt out if they want to chase a larger contract in the state leagues. This isn't about equalisation, it's about minimising the impact of injuries on teams competing for the finals.
1. The creation of draft points has created a second class of draft picks - picks when used as points are valued differently than when used for picks. This results in clubs trying to gain an advantage over the rest of the competition by completing lopsided trades with others that don't value certain picks as highly. Some clubs such as Gold Coast, Sydney and GWS don't seem to value second round picks as highly as others due to academy players being available every year. Geelong for example have made a couple of lopsided trades with GC which has resulted in the following: 2019 pick 27, 2021 3rd Rounder (MELB) <> 2019 pick 58, 2020 picks 15 & 32.
Solution: Clubs with Northern Academies can pre-list players onto their main list directly without going into the draft. However these four clubs cannot carry their own selections in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. They will however recieve draft points based on their finishing position to the value of where their 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds picks would have been in the draft order combined. Bids on Northern academy talent will occur prior to the trade period and can be paid for using draft points. Once a bid is made clubs can pay for the player with the exact value of draft points coming off the clubs total of points balance. No discounts. Any remaining points can be traded for players, draft picks or carried over into the following season. Penalties to apply for carrying a points deficit e.g sliding back of first round pick.
NGA rules have already changed, however I would prefer the eligibility criteria to be further tightened. Player must be born overseas plus one or both parents must also have been born overseas or if player was born in Australia but both parents and a sibling were born overseas. Also eligible Indigenous Australians must be from remote communities not regional towns.
2. FA Compensation
Need a better system with compensation. Still need it so that bottom teams don't get raided, however having too many compensation picks dilute the draft.
Solution:
Tighten the Band levels
Start with Tier one first round compensation Top 1%.
The Elite.. Must be in the top 8 players in the competition as per salary.
Tier 2 Top 10% - second round pick
Tier 3 Top 25% - draft points to the value of your third round pick
Tier 4 Not in top 25% - No compensation
Encourage the trading for RFA by allowing clubs to use a pick in any round two years into the future in a transaction involving a RFA where an offer is matched. That pick can't be used in any other deal. Relax the two in four year first round rule to 5 picks in 4 years in the first two rounds to accommodate this change.
3. Mid season draft
Don't like clubs using it to list 19 year old players that were overlooked in the previous draft. It also devalues state leagues.
Solution:
Scrap it. Replace it with a Free Agency Window for previously AFL listed players. These players can sign with their club of choice however if retained for the following must go through a bidding process in the national draft later that year. Allow players to opt out if they want to chase a larger contract in the state leagues. This isn't about equalisation, it's about minimising the impact of injuries on teams competing for the finals.
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- Oct 31, 2016
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I think soccer is a lot more relevant in the world than afl, that's a small minded view.
They make no sense whatsoever.
The academies mean that no matter where GWS, Sydney, GCS and Brisbane finish they will be gifted first round picks. The allocated GWS zone was AFL heartland, no argument could be mounted, that if not for the academies these players would be lost to the game.
I love the comment by GWS chairman, Tony Shepard: "We have suddenly started working the area and putting some real intellectual power, effort and money into it and all of a sudden we start producing talent and the Melbourne teams want to cash in on it.” I love the comment, GWS is putting the money into the zone, pretty easy when the money you are getting is $40m a season as a dividend, in comparison West Coast and Hawthorn are getting just $11M. I wonder which of these three clubs is generating the least income for the AFL, takes the biggest dividend by as much as $30M and gets an AFL heartland as a zone.
This on top of constantly getting top ten compensation picks pretty much every season, to go with those academy picks. I wonder how the competition would react if West Coast was given half the state as their zone, Richmond given the Calder Cannons, or Hawthorn given the Eastern Ranges as their academy.
The situation with the GCS is an absolutely joke as well, in addition to a plethora of top picks; they now have access to half of Queensland and sole rights on Northern Territory players, without even having to go through a bidding process.
- May 3, 2007
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you are a Sydney supporter and you can agree to this.
The academy systems originally started around 2005 ish. Only Brisbane and Sydney had the academy.
It was originally there to help Brisbane and Sydney which is fair enough.
Brisbane's QAFL isn't a strong breeding ground for young AFL talent like SANFL, WAFL, VFL or the Tac cup
Sydney AFL wasn't too good either.
Sure that Brisbane lions 2001-3 premiership sides had a handful of local Queensland talent.
Look at the swans 2005 premiership side. How many NSW born players played in that 2005 team?
So yeah..... Some people complaining about the academy systems don't realise that the NSW and Queensland have to rely on getting good talent in SA, WA and Victoria if the academy systems didn't exist
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Certainly wouldn’t be an advantage to SA or WA teams that generate 35-40% of the draft talent each year despite making up only 22% of the competition.
Could just offer junior contracts to players like they do in the EPL to move interstate if they court them well enough.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Does it matter where the talent comes from if doesn’t stop them winning premierships at a higher than average rate?
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
Opens the doorway to plutocracy. Ruled by the richest clubs like before the AFL era.
- May 3, 2007
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depends on how you see it. But at least you are not talking about descrimination or prejudice are you?
Point is who has the biggest disadvantages in the AFL? I still say GWS and GC. Their local leagues isn't strong and they dog have father son picks don't they?
- May 3, 2007
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I think it does matter where the talent comes from. Some people do struggle to extreme change in location.
Going to use one example here. Think of Liam jurrah as an example. He got drafted by the demons from a very small town in the NT and had a simple but comfortable life living with his friends and family.
He then is all of a sudden living in Melbourne and to him that went from one extreme situation to another.
Red Black and Blue
Brownlow Medallist
What discrimination and prejudice? I'm talking about which state they come from.
Sure Gold Coast and GWS don't have father sons. But in thirty years Essendon have had 3 father sons of any quality. GWS have had 7 first round academy players in seven years. Gold Coast probably have 3 now with Jeffery and Davis likely to have gone first round. The talent distribution from some academies isn't equal and reasonable to what father sons grant most teams. Now the NGA academies are a disproportionate response to that unbalance.
The success of Brisbane in the early naughties and Sydney playing in six grand finals in 12 years shows that talent retention issues don't hurt their ability to achieve any success and it was overblown as an issue.
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