Opinion The NBA Thread

[danielnajdek]

Cavs could of won Back to Back Titles IF Irving and Love where not injured last year in the Finals

Winning today would be all that sweeter though.

I don't like Draymond but he had a fantastic game. At least he showed up unlike Curry and Thompson.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

And that is why I think LeBron is better then Curry.

He always steps up in playoffs while Curry went missing.

No need to think. LeBron been doing this for 14 years. Curry been poor both Finals. LeBron cemented himself on Rushmore. Probably the 2nd best all time as it stands currently

 

[danielnajdek]

No need to think. LeBron been doing this for 14 years. Curry been poor both Finals. LeBron cemented himself on Rushmore. Probably the 2nd best all time as it stands currently

Yeah I agree. But he still continues to have haters. The guy is a legend and also donates a lot of money. I don't get the hate.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Yeah I agree. But he still continues to have haters. The guy is a legend and also donates a lot of money. I don't get the hate.

Jordan fan boys at first but then how he handled the decision is the main reason but that and his performance against Dallas in the finals are the only things u can criticise. People love to hate greatness unfortunately

 

[Knightmare]

As a Bulls fan, having gone through that 2010 free agency I still feel snubbed by LeBron not choosing to join the Bulls (where he would alongside D.Rose, Butler, Deng, Noah, Gibson, Asik, Mirotic etc) have won more championships had he brought D.Wade with him than he would have in Miami.

Others early days may have felt threatened that LeBron may take the mantel of greatest ever from Jordan, though he is more in the top 10 conversation and more similar on performance to Magic, so there really since his move to Miami have been no such concerns expressed.

In saying that it's terrific for Cleveland fans to see LeBron bring the championship home. His play from 3-1 down along with Kyrie is a big reason for the eventual outcome. And great capitalisation on Draymond Green missing game five and Bogut then after getting hurt.

As in sports. The best healthy team generally wins, and Cleveland succeeded in following that all too familiar narrative.

 

[TradeDraft]

As a Bulls fan, having gone through that 2010 free agency I still feel snubbed by LeBron not choosing to join the Bulls (where he would alongside D.Rose, Butler, Deng, Noah, Gibson, Asik, Mirotic etc) have won more championships had he brought D.Wade with him than he would have in Miami.

Others early days may have felt threatened that LeBron may take the mantel of greatest ever from LeBron, though he is more in the top 10 conversation and more similar on performance to Magic, so there really since his move to Miami have been no such concerns expressed.

In saying that it's terrific for Cleveland fans to see LeBron bring the championship home. His play from 3-1 down along with Kyrie is a big reason for the eventual outcome. And great capitalisation on Draymond Green missing game five and Bogut then after getting hurt.

As in sports. The best healthy team generally wins, and Cleveland succeeded in following that all too familiar narrative.

How do you know Wade would of Gone to the Bulls.

The Reason was Obvious and Great that he wanted to win for his Home Town in which he Delivered today. Great Story

 

[Knightmare]

How do you know Wade would of Gone to the Blues.

The Reason was Obvious and Great that he wanted to win for his Home Town in which he Delivered today. Great Story

*Bulls not Blues.

The free agent talk was between Miami, Chicago (or otherwise stay in Cleveland) for LeBron.

His options were to go to Miami and form a big three. Come to Chicago with D.Wade (who is from Chicago and wanted to team up with LeBron - and would have joined him willingly in Chicago), or stay on his own in Cleveland.

LeBron in the end opted for the Miami with the big three (including D.Wade and Bosh). It meant going to the location with the best weather, tax breaks and otherwise having the opportunity to put the veterans of his choice around him.

If LeBron wanted to be on four, five or six championships today, Chicago would have been the place where he could have done that with by now given those other pieces that were on the roster at that time.

 

[TradeDraft]

*Bulls not Blues.

The free agent talk was between Miami, Chicago (or otherwise stay in Cleveland) for LeBron.

His options were to go to Miami and form a big three. Come to Chicago with D.Wade (who is from Chicago and wanted to team up with LeBron - and would have joined him willingly in Chicago), or stay on his own in Cleveland.

LeBron in the end opted for the Miami with the big three (including D.Wade and Bosh). It meant going to the location with the best weather, tax breaks and otherwise having the opportunity to put the veterans of his choice around him.

If LeBron wanted to be on four, five or six championships today, Chicago would have been the place where he could have done that with by now given those other pieces that were on the roster at that time.

Saying Bulls would win 4+ Title and Actually Happening are 2 Different Things

 

[Knightmare]

Saying Bulls would win 4+ Title and Actually Happening are 2 Different Things

From six potential years.

Having LeBron (MVP or top 2 in the MVP every year) with D.Wade (All-star every year and NBA Champion before LeBron), D.Rose (10-11 MVP, x3 times all star), Noah (13-14 Defensive player of the year, All NBA First Team 13-14 and 4th in MVP 13-14, two time All-Star, two times All Defensive team), Butler (Two time all-star, Most improved player 14-15, x3 times all defense second team), Deng (Two time all-star, all defense second team), Gibson, Asik, Mirotic. I'd back that group in with complete confidence and I'd take that larger group over MJs Bulls.

Putting together:
C: Joakim Noah
PF: Taj Gibson
SF: LeBron James
SG: Jimmy Butler
PG: Derrick Rose
BENCH:
Omer Asik
Nikola Mirotic
Luol Deng

Then just add several veterans to minimum deals as happened in Miami to fill out that roster, get good backup point guards as the Bulls have on minimum deals ever year - Augustin, Robinson, Brooks, E.Moore etc. And that's an incredible group.

In terms of matchups. Having MVP Rose v Dallas, that would have been an easy win in pairing with LeBron, D.Wade, Noah, Deng, Gibson and Asik, with Noah and Gibson able to defend Dirk as well as any front court with both able to defend out to the perimeter.

The next finals LeBron lost was v the Spurs. D.Rose consistently beats up on Tony Parker, then going through position by position it's only Duncan at power forward who has the edge by position, but v Noah and Gibson who can switch so effortlessly on offense, you can't really do damage to the Bulls front court, particularly if they retained Asik to go with them (which with LeBron, they probably would have paid in order to retain him, knowing he only helps contention chances). It's possible that, that Bulls team may have after those first three lost that fourth finals, though with all these pieces around LeBron I'd give them the edge in the matchup still.

V GSW last year (assuming LeBron stayed - which he may not have), with Cleveland winning two games without Irving or Love. The Bulls with all those pieces likely would have won.

This year v GSW if Cleveland with LeBron, Irving and not much else can win the chip, then Bulls with Butler, Rose, Noah, D.Wade etc could have gotten the job done v GSW with Draymond missing a game (assuming the same happens again) and Bogut gets hurt as he so frequently does. If not then that would be a historic series on the strength of both teams.


Overall while nothing is a given. I'd back LeBron on the Bulls in to win more championships than he has with Miami and Cleveland, since his decision to leave Cleveland the first time.

 

[TradeDraft]

From six potential years.

Having LeBron (MVP or top 2 in the MVP every year) with D.Wade (All-star every year and NBA Champion before LeBron), D.Rose (10-11 MVP, x3 times all star), Noah (13-14 Defensive player of the year, All NBA First Team 13-14 and 4th in MVP 13-14, two time All-Star, two times All Defensive team), Butler (Two time all-star, Most improved player 14-15, x3 times all defense second team), Deng (Two time all-star, all defense second team), Gibson, Asik, Mirotic. I'd back that group in with complete confidence and I'd take that larger group over MJs Bulls.

Putting together:
C: Joakim Noah
PF: Taj Gibson
SF: LeBron James
SG: Jimmy Butler
PG: Derrick Rose
BENCH:
Omer Asik
Nikola Mirotic
Luol Deng

Then just add several veterans to minimum deals as happened in Miami to fill out that roster, get good backup point guards as the Bulls have on minimum deals ever year - Augustin, Robinson, Brooks, E.Moore etc. And that's an incredible group.

In terms of matchups. Having MVP Rose v Dallas, that would have been an easy win in pairing with LeBron, D.Wade, Noah, Deng, Gibson and Asik, with Noah and Gibson able to defend Dirk as well as any front court with both able to defend out to the perimeter.

The next finals LeBron lost was v the Spurs. D.Rose consistently beats up on Tony Parker, then going through position by position it's only Duncan at power forward who has the edge by position, but v Noah and Gibson who can switch so effortlessly on offense, you can't really do damage to the Bulls front court, particularly if they retained Asik to go with them (which with LeBron, they probably would have paid in order to retain him, knowing he only helps contention chances). It's possible that, that Bulls team may have after those first three lost that fourth finals, though with all these pieces around LeBron I'd give them the edge in the matchup still.

V GSW last year (assuming LeBron stayed - which he may not have), with Cleveland winning two games without Irving or Love. The Bulls with all those pieces likely would have won.

This year v GSW if Cleveland with LeBron, Irving and not much else can win the chip, then Bulls with Butler, Rose, Noah, D.Wade etc could have gotten the job done v GSW with Draymond missing a game (assuming the same happens again) and Bogut gets hurt as he so frequently does. If not then that would be a historic series on the strength of both teams.


Overall while nothing is a given. I'd back LeBron on the Bulls in to win more championships than he has with Miami and Cleveland, since his decision to leave Cleveland the first time.

I guess Miami 1st Offered the Better Deal and the 2nd Time showed how Important a Title to Cleveland was for him

 

[Knightmare]

I guess Miami 1st Offered the Better Deal and the 2nd Time showed how Important a Title to Cleveland was for him

LeBron at the end of his tenure with Miami saw a better Cleveland roster than that in Miami, with D.Wade declining and not much else.

Looking at Cleveland they had x3 first overall selections (Wiggins/Bennett/Irving) along with Thompson (a pick 4) as some pieces he felt could be built around him as has happened. So Cleveland he has portrayed publicly that he wanted to go home to bring a championship to Cleveland, he also went because his chances of winning in Cleveland were arguably better with Irving (and the potential to trade for Love which they did).

 

[nahnah]

As a cavs fan I can confirm we could not care less about players missing for warriors impacted the result

 

[TradeDraft]

As a cavs fan I can confirm we could not care less about players missing for warriors impacted the result

What players where Missing for GSW?

 

[nahnah]

What players where Missing for GSW?

Just green for game 5 and bogut for game 7. Nothing like missing Kyrie for an entire series.

 

[Knightmare]

Just green for game 5 and bogut for game 7. Nothing like missing Kyrie for an entire series.

Both teams in a way produced championship wins with an asterisk.

GSW last year win when Cleveland were without Irving and Love.

This year with Green missing game five, then Bogut missing the last two.

No doubt Cleveland fans would not care how it happened, with the critical factor being it happened for the first time for the Cavs.

 

[TradeDraft]

Just green for game 5 and bogut for game 7. Nothing like missing Kyrie for an entire series.

Green is a Important for 1 game but Bogut was not super Important.

Nothing like the Cavs not having Irving and Love for all of last Finals Series

 

[TradeDraft]

Both teams in a way produced championship wins with an asterisk.

GSW last year win when Cleveland were without Irving and Love.

This year with Green missing game five, then Bogut missing the last two.

No doubt Cleveland fans would not care how it happened, with the critical factor being it happened for the first time for the Cavs.

There be lot of Champs in Sports that could have the * next to them because of Injury.

Lions 2003 Flag could have a Big * next to it because we did not have Rocca

 

[Knightmare]

Green is a Important for 1 game but Bogut was not super Important.

Nothing like the Cavs not having Irving and Love for all of last Finals Series

I can't agree on Bogut. Ezeli was poor with 1 rebound (no blocks or points on 0/4 shooting) + 2 fouls in just over 10min in game 7. In game 6 he was also unimpactful with four points and four rebounds (no blocks) and three fouls in almost 15min of play.

Ezeli's lack of performance forced Varejao to have to play who was equally poor and the Warriors were with Varejao not scoring or grabbing rebounds (and among the worst rim protectors in the game) was forced to play when he isn't up to the standard of NBA finals play (with 1 point, 1 rebound no blocks and 5 fouls in 15min of play in games 6/7 combined).

The Warriors could have played small or used Speights instead of Ezeli and Varejao, but the value of Bogut protecting the rim and preventing LeBron and Kyrie from getting easy buckets instead is of major importance to the Warriors success, just as Draymond Green missing game 5 was a huge loss, as their most important player structurally to their team success.

 

[sirlothie]

Not a LeBron fan but have to admit its a pretty impressive effort to take the Cavs to the title...

 

[bucksisbest]

Others early days may have felt threatened that LeBron may take the mantel of greatest ever from LeBron, though he is more in the top 10 conversation and more similar on performance to Magic, so there really since his move to Miami have been no such concerns expressed.

I gather you meant Jordan as a typo.

You've either gone into defensive mode with LeBron here as a Bulls fan or I dunno...

He was a comfortable top 5 lock before all this, voted 3rd of all time by ESPN writers earlier this year and now consensus probably has him at 2 above Abdul Jabar.

ESPN Insider article discusses whether he could now go past MJ and what he would have to do.

Top 10? Yes, but he is right at the pointy end of that. I appreciate people have opinions, but really, it's LeBron James not Tim Duncan.

 

[Knightmare]

I gather you meant Jordan as a typo.

You've either gone into defensive mode with LeBron here as a Bulls fan or I dunno...

He was a comfortable top 5 lock before all this, voted 3rd of all time by ESPN writers earlier this year and now consensus probably has him at 2 above Abdul Jabar.

ESPN Insider article discusses whether he could now go past MJ and what he would have to do.

Top 10? Yes, but he is right at the pointy end of that. I appreciate people have opinions, but really, it's LeBron James not Tim Duncan.

Yes I did mean Jordan - edited previous post for accuracy.

I can't agree with LeBron as top 5 all time.

I've got:
1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. MJ
4. Kareem
5. Oscar

Leaving Shaq, Hakeem, LeBron, Magic, Kobe in some order
and Bird, Baylor, West etc to follow.

Duncan I'd rate 15-20 all time. I don't have him in LeBron's category.

LeBron is the best of his generation and I'll contend can go down as better than Kobe (all things said and done). I don't regard him greater than the old greats from the past though. He's firmly planted in the 6-10 group for me, and unless he remains productive until near 40 and dominant for a few more years, and wins another 2-3 championships, I'll be hesitant to move him up to 4 or 5 which is his absolute ceiling.

 

[mattys123]

Got to love Delly

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[spartan-magpie]

Yes I did mean Jordan - edited previous post for accuracy.

I can't agree with LeBron as top 5 all time.

I've got:
1. Wilt
2. Russell
3. MJ
4. Kareem
5. Oscar

Leaving Shaq, Hakeem, LeBron, Magic, Kobe in some order
and Bird, Baylor, West etc to follow.

Duncan I'd rate 15-20 all time. I don't have him in LeBron's category.

LeBron is the best of his generation and I'll contend can go down as better than Kobe (all things said and done). I don't regard him greater than the old greats from the past though. He's firmly planted in the 6-10 group for me, and unless he remains productive until near 40 and dominant for a few more years, and wins another 2-3 championships, I'll be hesitant to move him up to 4 or 5 which is his absolute ceiling.

Don't know if I've asked you this before.

Where would you rate Karl Malone? I know not winning a championship hurt him, but I was his biggest fan growing up.

For me, behind Jordan, lebron and Kobe and the best 4 I've seen...

The guy is seriously overlooked historically was a dynamite player.

 

[Knightmare]

Don't know if I've asked you this before.

Where would you rate Karl Malone? I know not winning a championship hurt him, but I was his biggest fan growing up.

For me, behind Jordan, lebron and Kobe and the best 4 I've seen...

The guy is seriously overlooked historically was a dynamite player.

Karl Malone has the durability and longevity, so he rates highly. Numbers are great with all those points and rebounds. Such a big body and so strong.

After Duncan by position of those pure power forwards (I'll regard Elgin Baylor as a small forward) I'd also lean towards Bob Pettit and Elvin Hayes. I also slightly prefer Kevin Garnett for his defence. Then I've got Malone ahead of Nowitzki, Barkley and McHale by position.

I would have K.Malone around 20 and inside my top 25, but not inside my best 15.

Many rate McHale and Nowitzki ahead of Malone, though those evaluations I can't agree with, with Nowitzki not nearly as good on the boards and McHale who had worse points and rebound numbers and a shorter career.

 

[spartan-magpie]

Karl Malone has the durability and longevity, so he rates highly. Numbers are great with all those points and rebounds. Such a big body and so strong.

After Duncan by position of those pure power forwards (I'll regard Elgin Baylor as a small forward) I'd also lean towards Bob Pettit and Elvin Hayes. I also slightly prefer Kevin Garnett for his defence. Then I've got Malone ahead of Nowitzki, Barkley and McHale by position.

I would have K.Malone around 20 and inside my top 25, but not inside my best 15.

Many rate McHale and Nowitzki ahead of Malone, though those evaluations I can't agree with, with Nowitzki not nearly as good on the boards and McHale who had worse points and rebound numbers and a shorter career.

Top 25 is no meant feat.

I used to love the mailman. Those days for mine, when we had the Jordan's, barkleys, kemps, mutumbos and more playing was just special. I can't say that I have the time to follow the current era as closely as did back in the early to late 90s

Do you think you'd have him rated higher had he won a championship or 2?