Opinion The NBA Thread

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nahnah said:
The Bulls and Mavs are gonna be so bad next year
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I'm not disliking either team.

Nor the Knicks who Stephen A as a Knicks fan can't appreciate.

The Bulls are getting Rondo, Valentine, Zipser, Calderon (who hopefully is retained), Lopez and Grant.

Felicio was a find late last year. Dunleavy will be back healthy is the hope. Portis and McDermott have another year under them.

I can't see the Bulls being much worse than last year, missing the playoffs and having so many injuries.

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Dallas I'm also not so down on. Gaining Bogut and Barnes is not bad. Pairing those guys with Nowitzki, D.Williams, W.Matthews, D.Lee and McGee. That's an ok group.

Losing Parsons and Pachulia is pretty much a swap with Barnes and Bogut, if a slight upgrade.

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Knicks are much better with Rose, Noah, Jennings and C.Lee added. They'll be a top 4 seed in the East. Rose and Noah I feel can have good seasons and exceed expectations. Jennings and Lee are both good pieces.

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The Rockets will be one of the most interesting teams this year. All 3 point shooting. No defence. Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson getting added to James Harden on offense will be incredible to watch. It's all going to be for not if they don't add some perimeter and rim defenders though.

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Boston become better adding Horford and probably Atlanta adding Howard.

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It's all about the Warriors now though. Green, Durant, Iguodala, Thompson and Curry as a starting unit. It will be fascinating to see who signs around them for the veteran minimum. Great move for them obviously. Durant is a huge upgrade over Barnes who was poor during the NBA finals. Ezeli was a non-factor also. Bogut is good but isn't always healthy.

They just need a few big bodied who can protect the rim and don't need the ball on offense. Then otherwise just a bunch of guys with length who can defend on the perimeter. Then they're good and set at a run at multiple championships.

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The Durant move I agree with Stephen A on, in that it is the soft way of doing and easy way to win the championship, particularly when he has a group in OKC around him who he can contend with, with enough star power to compliment him.

In saying that for the reasons Durant identified in his piece about his decision to move to the Bay Area (Golden State). I agree with him also. He wants to go to the team where he can get the most out of himself and get better and I see Golden State as that perfect place to do that. Learning from different star teammates in Curry, Thompson, Green, Iguodala etc, to help further his game and take it to the next level. Then you've got the winning, chemistry and unselfishness perspectives which are there in Golden State that appeal to him - on a team that will be from an ego perspective without stars which suits him and his personality perfectly.

I look forward to seeing what they can do. No doubt it will be properly video game level stuff.
 

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Knightmare said:
I'm not disliking either team.

Nor the Knicks who Stephen A as a Knicks fan can't appreciate.

The Bulls are getting Rondo, Valentine, Zipser, Calderon (who hopefully is retained), Lopez and Grant.

Felicio was a find late last year. Dunleavy will be back healthy is the hope. Portis and McDermott have another year under them.

I can't see the Bulls being much worse than last year, missing the playoffs and having so many injuries.

--
Dallas I'm also not so down on. Gaining Bogut and Barnes is not bad. Pairing those guys with Nowitzki, D.Williams, W.Matthews, D.Lee and McGee. That's an ok group.

Losing Parsons and Pachulia is pretty much a swap with Barnes and Bogut, if a slight upgrade.

--
Knicks are much better with Rose, Noah, Jennings and C.Lee added. They'll be a top 4 seed in the East. Rose and Noah I feel can have good seasons and exceed expectations. Jennings and Lee are both good pieces.

--
The Rockets will be one of the most interesting teams this year. All 3 point shooting. No defence. Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson getting added to James Harden on offense will be incredible to watch. It's all going to be for not if they don't add some perimeter and rim defenders though.

--
Boston become better adding Horford and probably Atlanta adding Howard.

--
It's all about the Warriors now though. Green, Durant, Iguodala, Thompson and Curry as a starting unit. It will be fascinating to see who signs around them for the veteran minimum. Great move for them obviously. Durant is a huge upgrade over Barnes who was poor during the NBA finals. Ezeli was a non-factor also. Bogut is good but isn't always healthy.

They just need a few big bodied who can protect the rim and don't need the ball on offense. Then otherwise just a bunch of guys with length who can defend on the perimeter. Then they're good and set at a run at multiple championships.

--
The Durant move I agree with Stephen A on, in that it is the soft way of doing and easy way to win the championship, particularly when he has a group in OKC around him who he can contend with, with enough star power to compliment him.

In saying that for the reasons Durant identified in his piece about his decision to move to the Bay Area (Golden State). I agree with him also. He wants to go to the team where he can get the most out of himself and get better and I see Golden State as that perfect place to do that. Learning from different star teammates in Curry, Thompson, Green, Iguodala etc, to help further his game and take it to the next level. Then you've got the winning, chemistry and unselfishness perspectives which are there in Golden State that appeal to him - on a team that will be from an ego perspective without stars which suits him and his personality perfectly.

I look forward to seeing what they can do. No doubt it will be properly video game level stuff.
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To be fair when I posted that I thought Durant would return to OKC for at least one year and therefore Dallas wouldn't have Barnes or Bogut on their roster with rapdily thinning free agent options.

I stand by my evaluation of the Bulls though, if you don't make the playoffs in the east you suck. That's how I view it. I can't see Bulls making playoffs in the east, or even finishing 41-41.

Be interesting to see how Durant fits with the Warriors, there's a chance it could stuff up what they had going. Fingers crossed that happens, even though it's unlikely. Given he signed a 1+1 contract it could be a short stay if that was to eventuate. Regardless I think the cavs can still compete with them, not sure there are many others that can. Clippers probably the next best.
 
nahnah said:
To be fair when I posted that I thought Durant would return to OKC for at least one year and therefore Dallas wouldn't have Barnes or Bogut on their roster with rapdily thinning free agent options.

I stand by my evaluation of the Bulls though, if you don't make the playoffs in the east you suck. That's how I view it. I can't see Bulls making playoffs in the east, or even finishing 41-41.

Be interesting to see how Durant fits with the Warriors, there's a chance it could stuff up what they had going. Fingers crossed that happens, even though it's unlikely. Given he signed a 1+1 contract it could be a short stay if that was to eventuate. Regardless I think the cavs can still compete with them, not sure there are many others that can. Clippers probably the next best.
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I also expected Durant to return to OKC for one more year.

The East goes deeper than the West. Less so in contenders but in terms of the competitiveness among the lower seeds.

The dynamic in the East last year was such that the 42-40 Bulls and 41-41 Wizards both missed the playoffs.

All those teams other than than 76ers and Nets have the potential to push for a playoff position. So any teams winning 40 games and missing the playoffs aren't terrible.

The Bulls aren't a contending team so I'm not sure what expectation you're holding them to. I have them as a 40 win team going into next season with the team pushing towards a youth movement with Butler, Portis, Mirotic, McDermott, Valentine, Grant and maybe Felicio and Snell as key parts of the rotation. They may waive Calderon and there is talk of a potential trade of Dunleavy and Gibson. Then they've only got Rondo and Lopez over the age of 28. As a young group without Rose/Noah/Gasol I'd count it as a win if they make the playoffs and finish with more than 40 wins. And that's a possibility I certainly wouldn't discount before the start of next season. It's a more durable team, and with lack of durability the reason the Bulls missed the playoffs with the whole team injured at some point with Gasol probably the teams most healthy, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bulls were better than 42 wins. It's not a terrible team. It's just young team that will achieve a middle of the road record in the East.

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I don't have anyone coming close to the Warriors.

OKC without Durant fall into mediocrity out West. They probably trade Westbrook during the season, perhaps to a Minnesota in a package for LaVine, Rubio and Muhammed. With Towns, Dieng, Wiggins, Westbrook and Dunn with Thibodeau coaching. That's a team Westbrook would probably stay with.

Spurs with Duncan likely to retire and West leaving get worse. Gasol will be a nice get. But I'm not seeing them maintaining their incredible level of play from this year.

Cleveland with Jefferson retiring and Dellavedova leaving have even less depth. It is unclear if JR Smith returns. So that's a really shallow team. It's LeBron, Kyrie. Thompson is a component. Love doesn't fit and isn't what he used to be when he had a stronger body - both in terms of rebounding and scoring inside. Williams appears done. Frye and Shumpert are adequate role players off the bench without being inspiring.

I have the Warriors running away with it if they stay healthy. Curry, Durant, Thompson, Green, Iguodala and Livingston with David West and Zaza Pachulia both signing for the veteran minimum, with others sure to join the party on those veteran minimum contracts - signing on for a championships. They'll be next level great. David Lee is another on their shopping list. Maybe Barbosa, Jarrett Jack and others join. So that's going to be an incredible team and they'll fill up those roster spaces with depth no problem.
With all that floor spacing Durant can be a 55% fg, 45% 3pt shooter next season and he'll still average 25ppg. Having that, Curry, Thompson and Green on a level on offense where he can score himself in his own right. It's mouthwatering stuff. And best of all they all share the ball and move it. So this will be fun.
 
Well... I'm not even bothering with League Pass this year.... They can shove it!!
 
nahnah said:
Wade to Bulls
Dunleavy to Cavs
Calderon to lakers


Chicago may never hit a 3 again
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Exciting news and a definite talent upgrade by position and best of all moves Butler to his more natural 3.

It's a bummer the Bulls moved D.Rose. Rose, D.Wade and Butler would be an incredible back court.

Rondo, Wade and Butler though I can live with.

With Wade while he isn't a 3 point threat. The critical understanding is that Wade has over the years drawn more defence to him than any player in the NBA, making him highly efficient. All the gravity when he has ball in hand is ridiculous, with everyone on defence drawn to him.

The Bulls will be unorthodox in that they'll be getting a lot of perimeter shooting from the front court, without much in the back court.

Dunleavy is a good get for the Cavs. Excellent ball mover and someone who plays well without the ball, plays good team defence and hits the open 3s.

Wade to the Bulls changes the balance of power somewhat and leaves the Heat looking lousy.

From a Bulls perspective I'm interested to see if Taj Gibson gets moved at any stage. Be it in an attempt to get younger and clear the position or in a more strictly positional move to get a JR Smith type of 3pt shooter off the bench.
There is just too many options at the 4 with Gibson, Mirotic, Portis and I'd contend McDermott also as a group who all play their best ball at the 4.
 
TradeDraft said:
Why would Wade go to Bulls when Noah and Rose left?
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From Chicago.

Chicago are better than a still rebuilding Denver.

Miami prioritised the signing of Hassan Whiteside and Kevin Durant over Wade.

Chicago showed more confidence in Wade and offered him more than Miami were willing to.

Following the money, going home and joining a better team.

Not a difficult decision. Particularly when Golden State/San Antonio/Cleveland (the only championship relevant teams) don't have the salary cap space to sign him to a $47.5m over two year deal or anything more than a mid-level exception.
 
Knightmare said:
From Chicago.

Chicago are better than a still rebuilding Denver.

Miami prioritised the signing of Hassan Whiteside and Kevin Durant over Wade.

Chicago showed more confidence in Wade and offered him more than Miami were willing to.

Following the money, going home and joining a better team.

Not a difficult decision. Particularly when Golden State/San Antonio/Cleveland (the only championship relevant teams) don't have the salary cap space to sign him to a $47.5m over two year deal or anything more than a mid-level exception.
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Seems more about the Money and I guess Bulls are better then the Nuggets. But his Best Chance at Winning was Still at Miami.

I thought with Rose and Noah leaving makes Bulls Weaker even with Wade
 
TradeDraft said:
Seems more about the Money and I guess Bulls are better then the Nuggets. But his Best Chance at Winning was Still at Miami.

I thought with Rose and Noah leaving makes Bulls Weaker even with Wade
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Miami have nothing.

Chris Bosh may be retiring. His health is such a question mark.

Hassan Whiteside can protect the rim. But that's what he does. Then Goran Dragic is that second and only other starting quality player. Justise Winslow at the 3 can be good but doesn't even average 10 points per 36min or even 30% from behind the 3 point line.

That's Miami's roster. Josh McRoberts is there. Josh Richardson? They're role players.

I'll take Butler (who is the only current all star standard player between either team), Rondo (NBA assist leader last year and a very tough defender), Lopez (durable rebounder and defender), Gibson (durable rebounder and defender), Mirotic (scoring big who can take you off the dribble and drain the open 3s), Portis (runs the floor, rebounds and plays excellent perimeter defence), McDermott (high level 3pt shooter), Valentine (arguably the best player in college basketball last year), Grant (handy combo guard who can come off the bench), Felicio (a find late season who can give good minutes off the bench). So I'm taking the Bulls team v the Heat (even before the addition of Wade).

It's a 40 win Bulls (with good youth) v a 30 win Heat (with no bench or depth).

Add Wade to the Bulls and it's a 47 win team which is by no means taking Cleveland but is still a competitive team.

Add Wade to the Heat and they're a 35 win team and still worse than the Bulls (45 win team with Bosh and Wade).

I'll take the Bulls.

Rose and Noah are losses. But Rose wasn't effective until after the all-star break with his play with the mask and vision poor and Noah in those 29 games he did play last season, he lacked any confidence on offense, not comfortable or knowing his role in Hoiberg's offense. So last season neither player had any real baring on the Bulls' record.

By contrast I'd say the loss of Pau Gasol for the Bulls from a 2015-2016 record standpoint makes a difference, with Gasol's 72 games with 16.5ppg, 11rpg and 2bpg good numbers. He couldn't defend the pick and roll and was a liability on teams that could run it effectively.
But adding Wade, while a different position, the addition of Wade eliminates any loss from the Gasol departure. With the Bulls adding other good pieces in Rondo, Lopez, Grant and Valentine with Portis, Mirotic, McDermott, Felicio and Snell all a year older and more mature.

If the Bulls have a healthier run with injury it's another good Bulls team. Injury is always the questionmark though with the Bulls, as with Collingwood in the AFL.
 

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I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all in regards to the Bulls.
They have no outside shooters, you can just crowd the paint and force them to shoot from outside.
Mirotic is the only outside shooter that should play much. I owned him in fantasy last season, he started the season very well but he went to crap very quickly. At best he is streaky. I think most teams would love to force Taj, butler, Wade and Rondo to try and beat them from outside. McDermott is nothing more than a role player that plays no defense.
It's going to be a mess imo
 
nahnah said:
I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all in regards to the Bulls.
They have no outside shooters, you can just crowd the paint and force them to shoot from outside.
Mirotic is the only outside shooter that should play much. I owned him in fantasy last season, he started the season very well but he went to crap very quickly. At best he is streaky. I think most teams would love to force Taj, butler, Wade and Rondo to try and beat them from outside. McDermott is nothing more than a role player that plays no defense.
It's going to be a mess imo
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Mirotic was playing hurt last year. He'll improve.

He has the game of James Harden at the 4. Freakish handle. Hits the 3s. Passes so easily and shoots those passes on the drive as per LeBron. Crafty finisher when going to the basket and draws fouls at a high rate. He has all the moves on offense. He just needs to get more aggressive shooting (without hesitation) and play a less unselfish game and go get the points himself.

Mirotic has a unique game and is a terrific fit around those guys.

McDermott as a 3pt shooter is Korver but with the ability to score inside and has all the moves - mid range jumper, finishes around the rim, draws fouls, shoots well from the post and can post guys up. He just hasn't developed the confidence for the Bulls v NBA competition. For me he needs to move to the four and he can be big time.

I like the Taj, Butler, Wade and Rondo lineup. Get Lopez in there with them. That's a group with the capacity to have the best defence rating in the NBA. Butler and Wade can both get buckets and Gibson and Lopez can hit the offensive boards pretty easily. It's just not a group that can get it done from the outside.

Unless you're the Warriors, Cavs or no defence Rockets. There aren't that many great 3pt shooting teams. So I'm perfectly happy with the group the Bulls have.

It's a group that would be a 50 win team if Thibs was coaching with Ron Adams as lead assistant.

I'm very comfortable with both the youth and experience.

It's an imperfect group as we've both identified with limited perimeter shooting. That's why they're not beating the Cavs in the East.

In the less than stellar Eastern conference though. It's Cleveland then everyone else. Toronto, Atlanta, New York, Chicago, Boston etc. 2-13 it's an even conference.
 
TradeDraft said:
Heard Wade left because he was Dis-Respected by the Heat
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Disrespected by not being a priority to be signed and being an after thought - with the re-signing of Whiteside and the signing of Durant priorities. Not receiving the same offer Kevin Durant received - D.Wade's attibute was: "if you can pay Durant that much why can't I get that much?"

With Wade he has also each contract signed for a discounted rate in order to allow others to sign - taking a discount so that the big three of LeBron and Bosh could come today. Again last year (before LeBron's decision to return to Cleveland) taking another discount in the hope that LeBron would come back.

It is estimated that Wade has cost himself $25+ million by taking discounts in order to field competitive teams.

And with Miami again not willing to sign Wade for as much as other teams, and not sign him to as much as they could have. Chicago showing they wanted Wade more and even moving players in order to sign him. Wade went where he was wanted and felt good about returning home to Chicago.

Wade conceptually was attracted to the appeal of being a one team player. But in the end he had just had enough of Miami who continually were taking advantage of him, in the end making Wade feel that they took him for granted.
 
nahnah said:
It's the first time Wade will be the highest paid player on his team
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I heard that also.

I was surprised to hear it as between the Shaq and the LeBron years. Who could possibly have been paid more than Wade? Their roster was barren.
 
Knightmare said:
Disrespected by not being a priority to be signed and being an after thought - with the re-signing of Whiteside and the signing of Durant priorities. Not receiving the same offer Kevin Durant received - D.Wade's attibute was: "if you can pay Durant that much why can't I get that much?"

With Wade he has also each contract signed for a discounted rate in order to allow others to sign - taking a discount so that the big three of LeBron and Bosh could come today. Again last year (before LeBron's decision to return to Cleveland) taking another discount in the hope that LeBron would come back.

It is estimated that Wade has cost himself $25+ million by taking discounts in order to field competitive teams.

And with Miami again not willing to sign Wade for as much as other teams, and not sign him to as much as they could have. Chicago showing they wanted Wade more and even moving players in order to sign him. Wade went where he was wanted and felt good about returning home to Chicago.

Wade conceptually was attracted to the appeal of being a one team player. But in the end he had just had enough of Miami who continually were taking advantage of him, in the end making Wade feel that they took him for granted.
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nahnah said:
Hope cavs win summer league and end the city's one month championship drought

Felder and McRae have looked good.
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Bulls knock Cavs out and progress to the final.

Grant has been disappointing and Valentine probably not as good as I was hoping but has still been fine.

Portis and Felicio have been the Bulls two best.

They'll all be playing for regular rotation positions, so I can't say I'm surprised that the Bulls have made the final game.

Most other rosters are filled with d-leaguers and others who won't make NBA rosters.
 
Knightmare said:
Bulls knock Cavs out and progress to the final.

Grant has been disappointing and Valentine probably not as good as I was hoping but has still been fine.

Portis and Felicio have been the Bulls two best.

They'll all be playing for regular rotation positions, so I can't say I'm surprised that the Bulls have made the final game.

Most other rosters are filled with d-leaguers and others who won't make NBA rosters.
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I can't believe how far the cavs got being carried by two players and some help from putney. Should have won today too, McRae choked at the end.

Felder looks like a steal, blocked portis in the third quarter
 
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