Opinion The NBA Thread

[Knightmare]

Hey km, what would you think of a rondo for Rubio trade? I don't think it will help either side dramatically but maybe a change in scenery could be good for them both. I like Noel though, if we could get him then I would have a look at offers for lopez.

Rubio doesn't help the Bulls and wouldn't be considered.

If Bulls go for a point guard in a Rondo trade they'd be looking for someone who can hit 3s, with neither Butler nor D.Wade proficient from the outside and MCW also not a shooter.

It's incredible to me that Noel can't get any minutes. He can be a starter and difference maker on the defensive end in the NBA, as something like a Tyson Chandler level starter who plays defence and rebounds to a high level and finishes around the rim.

 

[jakefooty23]

Rubio doesn't help the Bulls and wouldn't be considered.

If Bulls go for a point guard in a Rondo trade they'd be looking for someone who can hit 3s, with neither Butler nor D.Wade proficient from the outside and MCW also not a shooter.

It's incredible to me that Noel can't get any minutes. He can be a starter and difference maker on the defensive end in the NBA, as something like a Tyson Chandler level starter who plays defence and rebounds to a high level and finishes around the rim.

Fair enough. What would Chicago have to trade to get Brandon knight? I would be happy to trade Lopez and something else for him. Knight hasn't been in form this year but I think if he gets the right opportunity and minutes that he could be a great point guard, his shooting % is the only thing that worries me about him, he's very hot and cold. As for Noel, would rondo and a pick be enough? Or would we have to throw in Portis or someone? I think that if Noel wasn't at the 76ers and his injuries were limited he would be a great defensive big men in this league.

 

[nahnah]

Rubio doesn't help the Bulls and wouldn't be considered.

If Bulls go for a point guard in a Rondo trade they'd be looking for someone who can hit 3s, with neither Butler nor D.Wade proficient from the outside and MCW also not a shooter.

It's incredible to me that Noel can't get any minutes. He can be a starter and difference maker on the defensive end in the NBA, as something like a Tyson Chandler level starter who plays defence and rebounds to a high level and finishes around the rim.

The only reason Noel doesn't get mins is because Philly are that stupid and prefer Okafor..

 

[nahnah]

Fair enough. What would Chicago have to trade to get Brandon knight? I would be happy to trade Lopez and something else for him. Knight hasn't been in form this year but I think if he gets the right opportunity and minutes that he could be a great point guard, his shooting % is the only thing that worries me about him, he's very hot and cold. As for Noel, would rondo and a pick be enough? Or would we have to throw in Portis or someone? I think that if Noel wasn't at the 76ers and his injuries were limited he would be one of the better defensive big men in the league.

You will be able to get Knight pretty cheap given he's been almost unplayable this season and on a big contract. He is a very good player when in form

 

[jakefooty23]

You will be able to get Knight pretty cheap given he's been almost unplayable this season and on a big contract. He is a very good player when in form

Yeah I rate him quite highly, playing behind Bledsoe wouldn't be helping him but I guess that's the way the NBA works, I think if he's the main man pg at a team he will flourish.

 

[jakefooty23]

The only reason Noel doesn't get mins is because Philly are that stupid and prefer Okafor..

I think Philly should have traded okafor before the draft last year, there were rumours that the celtics offered pick 3 for him, if that's true then Philadelphia are idiots.. in saying that though, they would've probably drafted Dragan Bender with that pick...

 

[Knightmare]

Fair enough. What would Chicago have to trade to get Brandon knight? I would be happy to trade Lopez and something else for him. Knight hasn't been in form this year but I think if he gets the right opportunity and minutes that he could be a great point guard, his shooting % is the only thing that worries me about him, he's very hot and cold. As for Noel, would rondo and a pick be enough? Or would we have to throw in Portis or someone? I think that if Noel wasn't at the 76ers and his injuries were limited he would be a great defensive big men in this league.

It would be Rondo +. Maybe Rondo + a first round pick or Rondo and Mirotic could be about the currency.

Knight's fg% isn't ideal at less than .400 but he's still a 19.9ppg per 36min and before this season was hitting 2.2 and 2.3 3pt per game. So at 25 years of age, there is still relatively an upside. He is sort of a combo Point/Shooting guard who doesn't need to handle it all the time which also relatively works with Wade and Butler who both like the ball in their hands. So he's another fit, failing a trade for Noel.

For Noel I think the expectation may be similar. I'd guess without having heard any other estimates Rondo + 1st round pick or a young piece eg. Mirotic/McDermott/Portis/Valentine. Given their relative lack of good perimeter players maybe McDermott or Valentine suits them best, depending on their talent evaluations.

Rondo adds leadership and experience which is nice as a 1-2 year rental, but ideally Philli want a long term asset back for Noel, with Noel an expiring deal they have no interest in extending, not unlike Milwaukee with MCW.

The only reason Noel doesn't get mins is because Philly are that stupid and prefer Okafor..

Philli are all about development. Particularly with Simmons sitting out and the chances of securing the top pick again.

I'd play Noel alongside Okafor and Embiid, with two able to play together at a time while working on a suitable trade for one of them.

Embiid actually is able to shoot 3s, so in the developmental situation, I wouldn't sweat it. I'd prioritise getting minutes into talent, regardless of positions/chemistry.

Some really good point guards up the top end of the draft order this upcoming draft. So they'll have that to look forward to, and the higher the pick, the step closer they are to getting the pick of the bunch.

 

[nahnah]

Korver to cavs

 

[Knightmare]

Korver to cavs

Good get for this year. He'll run his defender around on offense, working tirelessly to work into space for open catch and shoot 3s. Ideal fit alongside LeBron and Kyrie.

Hawks also did well gaining a first round pick. Dunleavy and Williams also are solid veterans and assets.

Cavs still need a backup point guard and a center who can protect the rim. Do that and the Cavs can put forward another entertaining finals series v the Warriors.

JaVale McGee would be ideal in a trade for one of the Cavs exceptions if Golden State don't plan to keep him. His per 36min numbers have been incredible and for me it's hard to comprehend how few minutes he continues to receive. In my view he should be starting for Golden State.
Assuming McGee stays with Golden State, Jusuf Nurkic from Denver I'd recommend highly. Big body but genuine scorer down low who hits the boards at both ends and blocks shots. He can get into foul trouble but coming off the bench that doesn't matter as he's just another body.

For backup point guard. I really like Rondo for the Cavs as a backup. He's fine and just hasn't been at all suited to the Bulls due to their lack of floor spacers. For the Cavs having those floor spacers with Korver, Frye, Love. That's ideal and a situation he can be highly effective in. Thompson finishes around the basket. He needs those kind of offensive players on his team. Hard to figure out a trade that makes sense from the Bulls perspective, but in some kind of three way trade where Shumpert goes elsewhere and someone else offers the Bulls something worthwhile, it could be considered by the Bulls, depending on how that offer compares to other Rondo offers.
My backup plan would be Norris Cole as a cheap free agent pickup. Mario Chalmers is a no for me. He isn't right to play this year and is more a 17-18 season consideration for teams coming off the achilles 9 or so months ago.

 

[nahnah]

Good get for this year. He'll run his defender around on offense, working tirelessly to work into space for open catch and shoot 3s. Ideal fit alongside LeBron and Kyrie.

Hawks also did well gaining a first round pick. Dunleavy and Williams also are solid veterans and assets.

Cavs still need a backup point guard and a center who can protect the rim. Do that and the Cavs can put forward another entertaining finals series v the Warriors.

JaVale McGee would be ideal in a trade for one of the Cavs exceptions if Golden State don't plan to keep him. His per 36min numbers have been incredible and for me it's hard to comprehend how few minutes he continues to receive. In my view he should be starting for Golden State.
Assuming McGee stays with Golden State, Jusuf Nurkic from Denver I'd recommend highly. Big body but genuine scorer down low who hits the boards at both ends and blocks shots. He can get into foul trouble but coming off the bench that doesn't matter as he's just another body.

For backup point guard. I really like Rondo for the Cavs as a backup. He's fine and just hasn't been at all suited to the Bulls due to their lack of floor spacers. For the Cavs having those floor spacers with Korver, Frye, Love. That's ideal and a situation he can be highly effective in. Thompson finishes around the basket. He needs those kind of offensive players on his team. Hard to figure out a trade that makes sense from the Bulls perspective, but in some kind of three way trade where Shumpert goes elsewhere and someone else offers the Bulls something worthwhile, it could be considered by the Bulls, depending on how that offer compares to other Rondo offers.
My backup plan would be Norris Cole as a cheap free agent pickup. Mario Chalmers is a no for me. He isn't right to play this year and is more a 17-18 season consideration for teams coming off the achilles 9 or so months ago.

What about using trade exceptions, picks and maybe Jordan McRae to get Deron Williams and Andrew Bogut or is that not possible?

 

[Knightmare]

As a Bulls fan I'm very disappointed by the talk they're considering offers for Butler.

He's one of the best two way players in the NBA. Genuine number one option on offense and a shutdown player on defense, who can play as many minutes as you need him to. Not an ideal fit alongside D.Wade with neither great 3pt shooters, nor is he a fit in Fred Hoiberg's system as a half court/isolation scorer.

With that said, he's a leader, improves every year, works his butt off and on a young team with lots of recent first round draft picks, moving him on would be disastrous to their development and for competitiveness generally. Big step back regardless of what the package of young players/picks is.

Would not listen to offers. He's the franchise player and Hoiberg (who isn't an NBA standard coach) should go before he does.

 

[Knightmare]

What about using trade exceptions, picks and maybe Jordan McRae to get Deron Williams and Andrew Bogut or is that not possible?

Mavericks have won a few games lately.

I think they'll retain both of them - wanting to win for Dirk and show him respect (as per the Lakers and Kobe) of at least playing/keeping the veterans they have where possible and continuing to play them. I don't see Dallas giving up on the season.

As for the trade exceptions.

From a salary cap perspective, Williams but not Bogut can fit into the trade exception.

If you wanted both in theory Shumpert + trade exception could net you both. It's just up to Dallas to agree on a deal.

Not sure how many picks the Cavs have but would think Dallas would want multiple future first rounders, given we're talking about two of their starters and veteran leaders.

 

[nahnah]

Mavericks have won a few games lately.

I think they'll retain both of them - wanting to win for Dirk and show him respect (as per the Lakers and Kobe) of at least playing/keeping the veterans they have where possible and continuing to play them. I don't see Dallas giving up on the season.

As for the trade exceptions.

From a salary cap perspective, Williams but not Bogut can fit into the trade exception.

If you wanted both in theory Shumpert + trade exception could net you both. It's just up to Dallas to agree on a deal.

Not sure how many picks the Cavs have but would think Dallas would want multiple future first rounders, given we're talking about two of their starters and veteran leaders.

Doubt Dallas would want to take on Shumps contract, really want Deron as back up pg.

 

[Knightmare]

Doubt Dallas would want to take on Shumps contract, really want Deron as back up pg.

Williams would be a very handy backup.

Not a great teammate and not someone who really enjoys playing basketball. Very much someone from all reports who is just go to training as required, go home, not engage much with teammates or do any extra work.

That said he's still productive. Strong body, ok defender. Can handle, distribute. Scores and hits enough 3s and ok enough percentages.

You'll have to give up at least one future first round pick for any talks to happen.

 

[nahnah]

Williams would be a very handy backup.

Not a great teammate and not someone who really enjoys playing basketball. Very much someone from all reports who is just go to training as required, go home, not engage much with teammates or do any extra work.

That said he's still productive. Strong body, ok defender. Can handle, distribute. Scores and hits enough 3s and ok enough percentages.

You'll have to give up at least one future first round pick for any talks to happen.

We have really good veteran locker room guys that might make him more comfortable with, Frye, RJ, Lebron, Jones and Korver are all around his age and great locker room guys. I think it would be a great fit.
Chalmers is the other option that I like, Cavs would make sure he is right to play before signing him. Cole I like too, both have already played with Lebron and can make threes and defend.
Rondo not for me, sure he might be better with the shooters Cavs have off the bench but his style of play doesn't really work anymore and he's got a bad rap recently

 

[Knightmare]

We have really good veteran locker room guys that might make him more comfortable with, Frye, RJ, Lebron, Jones and Korver are all around his age and great locker room guys. I think it would be a great fit.
Chalmers is the other option that I like, Cavs would make sure he is right to play before signing him. Cole I like too, both have already played with Lebron and can make threes and defend.
Rondo not for me, sure he might be better with the shooters Cavs have off the bench but his style of play doesn't really work anymore and he's got a bad rap recently

To my mind it depends on options for the Cavs.

For point guards I'd take Williams ahead of Rondo. I'd agree with you there. Williams is the more complete player as the more capable shooter/scorer. That said, I'd take Rondo to Chalmers and Cole. Rondo is a specialist, but a really good one who can do more towards winning than either of them. He's just not going to be a popular choice given the direction the game is going with 3 point shooting and floor spacing being a premium.

Williams is a 15-20 point guard.

Rondo for me is still a starting point guard and a 20-30 player by position - just needing the right team to be effective. Cousins raved about him last year and he worked out well with Sacramento feeding Cousins, finding the open men and leading the NBA in assists and also right up there for rebounds by position. I still think there is a place for him, it just takes a team that is completely contrasting to the Bulls in every way, actually having shooters and big guys who can score around rim.

From a leadership perspective I also really like Rondo. He is the smartest player in the league and smarter than almost all NBA coaches. For a contending team, he can give some seriously impressive input and help a lot off the floor from all reports, opinionated and strong willed as he is.

What makes Rondo in my view anyway a suitable fit for the Cavs specifically is he's someone who will find you if you run out on the break and he'll find the open 3 point shoots and any athletic types who run and floor or finish around the rim. Cleveland have both.

Chalmers and Cole I'd have 40 onwards by position. They're compatible components who can play alongside LeBron and having that experience from previously but very much reserves/backup types by position.

 

[WakeUpPies]

Trouble in paradise.

 

[Knightmare]

Trouble in paradise.

I sort of like that from Green.

I didn't like Green's demeanor during the play but I like the talk afterwards, about whatever it was about. You need leadership on the floor and guys who aren't afraid to speak up when it's needed.

I can't say I liked KD's floor position during the play and him looking to go isolation.

Isolation play is low %.

Further to that I'd have the ball in Steph's hands as the better shot creator and better 3pt shooter. He should be the decision maker with KD best in motion spreading the floor and opening things up for Steph + Klay.

 

[nahnah]

To my mind it depends on options for the Cavs.

For point guards I'd take Williams ahead of Rondo. I'd agree with you there. Williams is the more complete player as the more capable shooter/scorer. That said, I'd take Rondo to Chalmers and Cole. Rondo is a specialist, but a really good one who can do more towards winning than either of them. He's just not going to be a popular choice given the direction the game is going with 3 point shooting and floor spacing being a premium.

Williams is a 15-20 point guard.

Rondo for me is still a starting point guard and a 20-30 player by position - just needing the right team to be effective. Cousins raved about him last year and he worked out well with Sacramento feeding Cousins, finding the open men and leading the NBA in assists and also right up there for rebounds by position. I still think there is a place for him, it just takes a team that is completely contrasting to the Bulls in every way, actually having shooters and big guys who can score around rim.

From a leadership perspective I also really like Rondo. He is the smartest player in the league and smarter than almost all NBA coaches. For a contending team, he can give some seriously impressive input and help a lot off the floor from all reports, opinionated and strong willed as he is.

What makes Rondo in my view anyway a suitable fit for the Cavs specifically is he's someone who will find you if you run out on the break and he'll find the open 3 point shoots and any athletic types who run and floor or finish around the rim. Cleveland have both.

Chalmers and Cole I'd have 40 onwards by position. They're compatible components who can play alongside LeBron and having that experience from previously but very much reserves/backup types by position.

Interesting to see which way the cavs go!
Korver been my dream recruit for 5-6 years now, stoked. Shoots 56% from the right corner this season.

 

[nahnah]

one day I'll be able to look back over a long period and compare eras but I only have a 10-11 year span to draw upon.
Although I will point out it wasn't that long ago that Jameer Nelson and Mo Williams were the All Star Point guards for the East... I remember when I first started following NBA every team would seemingly have a star player but now they're teaming up which is resulting in lower numbers for the lesser star, eg Bosh, Love. Also means some teams won't have stars like Philly

Korver replacing Waiters would be insane. I can't see Atlanta ever trading him to the cavs tho lol
Irving is the best 3pt shooter off a spin move ever.

I was wrong we got him!!

 

[Knightmare]

Interesting to see which way the cavs go!
Korver been my dream recruit for 5-6 years now, stoked. Shoots 56% from the right corner this season.

He's all catch and shoot. And when your one trick is so valuable, you can add to a team. He's all efficiency. He isn't a deep 3 shooter, just someone who is on the move on offense, has his feet squared up and ready to catch and shoot from just behind the line.

Also a really high quality person who is great in the community, beyond just being a hard worker who keeps himself in the best condition possible.

He's a really good get.

 

[Knightmare]

Looking into that Draymond/Durant run-in.

Draymond was telling KD that they should have stuck with the pick and roll.

I have to say I completely agree. Going isolation in the 4th quarter is why the Golden State offense has been lousy and I side firmly with Draymond for his hard and passionate stance. He's right. Golden State play good offense when they're all moving, playing unselfish ball, rather than iso-ball. Particularly when the ball is in KD's hands at the top of the floor. It's inefficient offense and not playing up to capacity.

 

[nahnah]

Looking into that Draymond/Durant run-in.

Draymond was telling KD that they should have stuck with the pick and roll.

I have to say I completely agree. Going isolation in the 4th quarter is why the Golden State offense has been lousy and I side firmly with Draymond for his hard and passionate stance. He's right. Golden State play good offense when they're all moving, playing unselfish ball, rather than iso-ball. Particularly when the ball is in KD's hands at the top of the floor. It's inefficient offense and not playing up to capacity.

Curry and Durant both look like they're scared to miss when the game gets tight and just jack up shots quickly. I would be running a play For Klay and see if he is able to execute in these situations

 

[Knightmare]

Curry and Durant both look like they're scared to miss when the game gets tight and just jack up shots quickly. I would be running a play For Klay and see if he is able to execute in these situations

If Klay gets the open jumper I'd be all for it. I just wouldn't want him doing anything off the dribble or having to create his own shot.

Steph and KD are having their shots, but as long range shooters they're shooting from long range more than going to the basket which limits their % in late game situation.

I'd be tempted just to run a normal offense. Have the ball in Steph's hands and have everyone else in motion, causing the defense to work and let Steph make the decision, shoot or pass to the open guy.

As long as there isn't any dribble, dribble, dribble, lack of motion on the offense. They'd be much better.

 

[Knightmare]

Any picks for NBA All-Star teams?

My choices as starters are:

East:
JAMES, LEBRON
BUTLER, JIMMY
ANTETOKOUNMPO, GIANNIS
DEROZAN, DEMAR
IRVING, KYRIE

West:
DURANT, KEVIN
LEONARD, KAWHI
DAVIS, ANTHONY
WESTBROOK, RUSSELL
HARDEN, JAMES

*Just a quick copy/paste from my vote.

--
How this differs to actual voting:
East front court: Love and Embiid are ahead of Butler (I'd pick Butler ahead of Love as the better two way player who is clearly better on defense and also on offense playing a more prominent part).
East back court: D.Wade is ahead of DeRozan in the back court vote but DeRozan while also not a 3pt shooter is clearly the better player this year and more deserving on a team winning more.

West front court: This would simply be replacing Zaza Pachulia with Anthony Davis. Zaza second in the West front court voting? Seriously? I'd start JaVale McGee ahead of him.
West back court: Westbrook I'd move in for Steph. Steph is the better talent and Westbrook is a ball hog. But putting up the numbers he is this year, he deserves to be starting alongside Harden.

--
In the front courts, I've deliberately stayed away from genuine big men. The all-star game is a 3pt contest and there aren't any genuine big men who should be in the MVP conversation. It's an all perimeter style game, so this is the way I'd want to see it played, with the matchups I'd choose.
LeBron v KD (the NBA's two best talents)
Butler v Leonard (two, two way ballers who will bring it)
Giannis v Davis (length and athleticism v length and athleticism)
DeRozan v Westbrook (athleticm v athleticism)
Irving v Harden (skill v skill)

--
Those others I'd pick beyond my starting my above
East:
Hassan Whiteside
Dwight Howard
Kevin Love
Paul George
Kyle Lowry
Isaiah Thomas
John Wall

West:
Rudy Gobert
DeMarcus Cousins
Karl-Anthony Towns
Draymond Green
Klay Thompson
Steph Curry
Damian Lillard