Opinion The NBA Thread

[wicksy]

I don't want to talk about basketball anymore.... I'm too sad!!

 

[Knightmare]

I don't want to talk about basketball anymore.... I'm too sad!!

When the season ends, it's always onto the draft and offseason for me. Or at least I'm already in offseason mode and will probably next take interest when the finals come around unless I watch the odd game until then.

 

[nahnah]

Somewhat bummed out by the conference finals matchups.

Really wanted to see a Warriors v Clippers series for the chippyness, and similarly for the same reasons a Bulls v Wizards series. But the second round did go as I had predicted going into the round.

For the conference finals I have:
Atlanta in 7 and Golden State in 6.

Cleveland may get through over Atlanta and Atlanta have hardly played convincing basketball through the playoffs but the Cavs with Love and Varajao obviously out then Irving hobbled and barely playing to a worthwhile level at least based on the Bulls series. It's hard to pick the Cavs even though they're if healthy clearly the better team as they showed over the second half of the season.

As a viewer I also hope for an Atlanta v Golden State finals. Apologies to nahnah, but I just want to see the two best ball moving teams playing eachother. A half strength Cavs v Golden State just isn't a series that would entertain me as much, but two teams who play unselfishly and move the ball so easily, I look forward to seeing that.

No need to apologise my team is still alive
Man that has to be one of the biggest chokes in playoff history by the clippers, up 19? In game 6.. Bad luck wicksy. At least Houson don't stand a chance against the Warriors

 

[wicksy]

When the season ends, it's always onto the draft and offseason for me. Or at least I'm already in offseason mode and will probably next take interest when the finals come around unless I watch the odd game until then.

In that case.... What are your thoughts on the Clipper roster for next year?
We all know that DJ is fielding big offers from rival clubs but will get more by staying at the Clippers for a longer deal.

From a Clippers point of view, you probably can't field 3 "MAX" players in the one squad without making an already terrible bench, worse.
There's been talk that a straight swap between Griffin and Durant could be had but still leaves you with 3 max and in my opinion, not that much difference in output. Do you let go of DJ and go after a Lopez type player for less cash to try and upgrade the 2 and 3 so you can sit Barnes and/or Redick on the pine?
Do you offload Jamal and try for someone less streaky?
Do you do the unthinkable and trade Paul for a Deron Williams type with the aim to save a bit of money to upgrade the bench?

Either way, Doc has stuffed us with Spencer Hawes' long term deal and the drafting of his son.

 

[wicksy]

No need to apologise my team is still alive
Man that has to be one of the biggest chokes in playoff history by the clippers, up 19? In game 6.. Bad luck wicksy. At least Houson don't stand a chance against the Warriors

I was already celebrating.... Was watching at work (don't tell the boss). Went to a meeting halfway through the third. Came out of meeting with 30 seconds remaining in the game and nearly set myself alight.

I knew from that very moment, we were no hope for game 7. Should have saved the petrol.

 

[nahnah]

In that case.... What are your thoughts on the Clipper roster for next year?
We all know that DJ is fielding big offers from rival clubs but will get more by staying at the Clippers for a longer deal.

From a Clippers point of view, you probably can't field 3 "MAX" players in the one squad without making an already terrible bench, worse.
There's been talk that a straight swap between Griffin and Durant could be had but still leaves you with 3 max and in my opinion, not that much difference in output. Do you let go of DJ and go after a Lopez type player for less cash to try and upgrade the 2 and 3 so you can sit Barnes and/or Redick on the pine?
Do you offload Jamal and try for someone less streaky?
Do you do the unthinkable and trade Paul for a Deron Williams type with the aim to save a bit of money to upgrade the bench?

Either way, Doc has stuffed us with Spencer Hawes' long term deal and the drafting of his son.

Best way is to draft well with later picks and get guys that can contribute right away at the wing positions, not sure if they're available in this draft.
DJ should stay, hopefully no stupid team like Detroit or Charlotte gives him the money he wants but doesn't really deserve.
What sort of coin is big spence on, he played so well at the end of last season and then spudded it up for the clips, probably just played for a contract.
I wouldn't move Paul if I was the clips and wouldn't blow up the team. Upgrades on the wing postions are needed badly, Crawford might need to be moved on and reddick moved to the bench with hopeful upgrades coming in. I think the clips should chase Shumpert hard, but I really want Cavs to sign him.

 

[wicksy]

Best way is to draft well with later picks and get guys that can contribute right away at the wing positions, not sure if they're available in this draft.
DJ should stay, hopefully no stupid team like Detroit or Charlotte gives him the money he wants but doesn't really deserve.
What sort of coin is big spence on, he played so well at the end of last season and then spudded it up for the clips, probably just played for a contract.
I wouldn't move Paul if I was the clips and wouldn't blow up the team. Upgrades on the wing postions are needed badly, Crawford might need to be moved on and reddick moved to the bench with hopeful upgrades coming in. I think the clips should chase Shumpert hard, but I really want Cavs to sign him.

4 year, 23 million.

Too long... Far too much!!!

 

[Knightmare]

In that case.... What are your thoughts on the Clipper roster for next year?
We all know that DJ is fielding big offers from rival clubs but will get more by staying at the Clippers for a longer deal.

From a Clippers point of view, you probably can't field 3 "MAX" players in the one squad without making an already terrible bench, worse.
There's been talk that a straight swap between Griffin and Durant could be had but still leaves you with 3 max and in my opinion, not that much difference in output. Do you let go of DJ and go after a Lopez type player for less cash to try and upgrade the 2 and 3 so you can sit Barnes and/or Redick on the pine?
Do you offload Jamal and try for someone less streaky?
Do you do the unthinkable and trade Paul for a Deron Williams type with the aim to save a bit of money to upgrade the bench?

Either way, Doc has stuffed us with Spencer Hawes' long term deal and the drafting of his son.

CP3, Griffen and Jordan are the core pieces to build around.

I'd look at the team as

C: DeAndre Jordan (unrestricted free agent but should be return)
PF: Blake Griffen
SF: *New Starter required (eg. Mike Dunleavy)
SG: JJ Reddick
PG: Chris Paul
BENCH:
*another center (eg. Aron Baynes)
Spencer Hawes
*another power forward (eg. Carlos Boozer or Elton Brand)
Glen Davis (bring back if available for minimum)
Matt Barnes
Jamal Crawford
Austin Rivers (bring back)
*further depth point guard (eg. CJ Watson)

For me it's just about finding that starting small forward and adding the depth all over as best as can be practically achieved with minimum contracts.

In terms of guys through the draft that could also fill one of those needs. The players who have been in college a few years are more appropriate for the Clippers as a contending team. R.J. Hunter I like as a Marco Belineli style outside shooter. Delon Wright as a backup point should be considered. Robert Upshaw as a defensive big man may be the best in the draft, but there are the red flags which is the only reason he is available. Otherwise it's hoping someone slides or perhaps an international rookie who can be stashed in Europe for a few years.


To answer your questions. The big three for me is necessary. And like with the Celtics previously where Doc has coached and with the Heat with LeBron, with that big three, and being in LA. Veterans will sign willingly for the minimum. So I think a few guys can quietly be added, particularly given the Clippers beat the Spurs in the first round which will make Veterans sit up and take notice.

It's hard to see the Thunder moving Durant for Griffen. Durant is arguably the best or certainly a top 3 player in the game when healthy. Griffen is top 10, and without the injury issues. But not quite there. You'd make that trade any day of the week as the Clippers, as it better balances the floor and is an obvious upgrade. But the Thunder would have to be certain that Durant is leaving as a free agent for there to even be a shot. But with Ibaka, I'm not sure why you'd pair him with Griffen in the Thunder's position.

No way I'd let DJ go. He led the league in rebounds and was the defensive anchor, and an excellent finisher on lobs around the rim. In the NBA, never downgrade on talent, and moving DJ unless it's for a multiple time all star should not be considered. And certainly not for a Lopez type. That's not getting you past the Thunder, Warriors or Cavs, all of whom are loaded and will remain that way assuming their free agents return over coming seasons.

Paul for Deron Williams would be suicide. Deron Williams isn't even a worthwhile starting point. Even as a backup point I personally wouldn't sign him. His body is done. I could name 30 point guards I'd play ahead of Deron Williams. You'd be better off just trading for Kirk Hinrich and using him as a backup point, as someone who offers roughly the same thing as Williams, though without the attitude.

Jamal Crawford I'd recommend keeping, but move for the right deal. And Spencer Hawes I'd have on the trade table obviously as he clearly hasn't fit with the Clippers roster. JJ Redick I'd also have on the table. In each case it's because they've got a few years and are on contracts with some reasonable money coming their way, so they're the three more likely players who could potentially allow the Clippers to upgrade in various positions beyond just adding guys for the minimum, if perhaps future picks are included.

--
Also worth noting after next year the salary cap will rise greatly. So even signing DJ to a big deal. After next year the Clippers will have plenty of salary cap space after next season and in those future years. So now would be the worst possible time to move star players for lesser pieces.

 

[wicksy]

CP3, Griffen and Jordan are the core pieces to build around.

I'd look at the team as

C: DeAndre Jordan (unrestricted free agent but should be return)
PF: Blake Griffen
SF: *New Starter required (eg. Mike Dunleavy)
SG: JJ Reddick
PG: Chris Paul
BENCH:
*another center (eg. Aron Baynes)
Spencer Hawes
*another power forward (eg. Carlos Boozer or Elton Brand)
Glen Davis (bring back if available for minimum)
Matt Barnes
Jamal Crawford
Austin Rivers (bring back)
*further depth point guard (eg. CJ Watson)

For me it's just about finding that starting small forward and adding the depth all over as best as can be practically achieved with minimum contracts.

In terms of guys through the draft that could also fill one of those needs. The players who have been in college a few years are more appropriate for the Clippers as a contending team. R.J. Hunter I like as a Marco Belineli style outside shooter. Delon Wright as a backup point should be considered. Robert Upshaw as a defensive big man may be the best in the draft, but there are the red flags which is the only reason he is available. Otherwise it's hoping someone slides or perhaps an international rookie who can be stashed in Europe for a few years.


To answer your questions. The big three for me is necessary. And like with the Celtics previously where Doc has coached and with the Heat with LeBron, with that big three, and being in LA. Veterans will sign willingly for the minimum. So I think a few guys can quietly be added, particularly given the Clippers beat the Spurs in the first round which will make Veterans sit up and take notice.

It's hard to see the Thunder moving Durant for Griffen. Durant is arguably the best or certainly a top 3 player in the game when healthy. Griffen is top 10, and without the injury issues. But not quite there. You'd make that trade any day of the week as the Clippers, as it better balances the floor and is an obvious upgrade. But the Thunder would have to be certain that Durant is leaving as a free agent for there to even be a shot. But with Ibaka, I'm not sure why you'd pair him with Griffen in the Thunder's position.

No way I'd let DJ go. He led the league in rebounds and was the defensive anchor, and an excellent finisher on lobs around the rim. In the NBA, never downgrade on talent, and moving DJ unless it's for a multiple time all star should not be considered. And certainly not for a Lopez type. That's not getting you past the Thunder, Warriors or Cavs, all of whom are loaded and will remain that way assuming their free agents return over coming seasons.

Paul for Deron Williams would be suicide. Deron Williams isn't even a worthwhile starting point. Even as a backup point I personally wouldn't sign him. His body is done. I could name 30 point guards I'd play ahead of Deron Williams. You'd be better off just trading for Kirk Hinrich and using him as a backup point, as someone who offers roughly the same thing as Williams, though without the attitude.

Jamal Crawford I'd recommend keeping, but move for the right deal. And Spencer Hawes I'd have on the trade table obviously as he clearly hasn't fit with the Clippers roster. JJ Redick I'd also have on the table. In each case it's because they've got a few years and are on contracts with some reasonable money coming their way, so they're the three more likely players who could potentially allow the Clippers to upgrade in various positions beyond just adding guys for the minimum, if perhaps future picks are included.

--
Also worth noting after next year the salary cap will rise greatly. So even signing DJ to a big deal. After next year the Clippers will have plenty of salary cap space after next season and in those future years. So now would be the worst possible time to move star players for lesser pieces.

Very good point!!! I had not thought of that.
I like your analysis though... You must watch an awful lot of college ball as well?

 

[Knightmare]

Very good point!!! I had not thought of that.
I like your analysis though... You must watch an awful lot of college ball as well?

That new TV deal will help those teams with the top end star power in a big way. The Clippers have perhaps more than any team really gotten lucky as a result of it.

I do watch college basketball as well as international basketball - China, Europe, Adriatic League. Wherever the draftable talent is playing in any given year.

Andray Blatche in China was terrific as a big and could be a Mauresse Speights like addition, able to have an impact off the bench on a contending team. Andrew Goudelock in Europe as a guard has been terrific and can find his way back into the NBA as part of a rotation at worst as a combo guard who can really score.

Emmanual Mudiay (American) playing in China was interesting to watch as a super athletic point guard. He'll go top 5 in the upcoming draft. Mario Hezonja and Kristaps Porzingis from Europe are the two others with top 10 chances in the upcoming draft.

 

[nahnah]

First time in a long time I had no idea when the lottery was, turns out its tomorrow. Really hoping Twolves win and can add a nice piece to put around Wiggins. Also hope Lakers and knicks get crap picks !

 

[Knightmare]

First time in a long time I had no idea when the lottery was, turns out its tomorrow. Really hoping Twolves win and can add a nice piece to put around Wiggins. Also hope Lakers and knicks get crap picks !

I'll add Phili on the list of teams I'd like not to win the lottery. Their players don't tank and neither does their coach, but their management sure do just giving up players for picks constantly in an attempt to get worse to get slightly better draft selections than they'd otherwise get. If they don't get that top two pick with some luck they remain in tanking mode and continue to unload talent to contending teams.

I'd like to see Sacramento win the lottery if I had the choice. Mostly because if they finish outside the top 10 the Bulls get their first round pick next year instead of two second round picks in later seasons.

But as long as it's not New York, Lakers, Phili, OKC, Miami or Indiana with that top pick, and preferably not a top two pick. That would be ideal.

In saying that I feel (speculatively based on the games I've seen of him) that Jahlil Okafor will struggle at NBA level and he is sure to go at pick one or two and likely be worse than those who go in those next few picks. So if a New York or Lakers get that first pick, I hope they take Okafor is someone who struggles on defence, is a below average rebounder and terrible at the line and with no shooting range outside of the post.

 

[wicksy]

I'll add Phili on the list of teams I'd like not to win the lottery. Their players don't tank and neither does their coach, but their management sure do just giving up players for picks constantly in an attempt to get worse to get slightly better draft selections than they'd otherwise get. If they don't get that top two pick with some luck they remain in tanking mode and continue to unload talent to contending teams.

I'd like to see Sacramento win the lottery if I had the choice. Mostly because if they finish outside the top 10 the Bulls get their first round pick next year instead of two second round picks in later seasons.

But as long as it's not New York, Lakers, Phili, OKC, Miami or Indiana with that top pick, and preferably not a top two pick. That would be ideal.

In saying that I feel (speculatively based on the games I've seen of him) that Jahlil Okafor will struggle at NBA level and he is sure to go at pick one or two and likely be worse than those who go in those next few picks. So if a New York or Lakers get that first pick, I hope they take Okafor is someone who struggles on defence, is a below average rebounder and terrible at the line and with no shooting range outside of the post.

It's almost like you wrote the script!!! haha

 

[nahnah]

Okafor to twolves, towns will refuse an interview with them so he gets to lakers

 

[TradeDraft]

Knicks Fans will be Bloody Pissed they moved from Pick 2 to Pick 4. I also be pissed

 

[nahnah]

Knicks Fans will be Bloody Pissed they moved from Pick 2 to Pick 4. I also be pissed

Youre a knicks fan ?

 

[TradeDraft]

Youre a knicks fan ?

Not My Number 1 Team but I am a Fan

 

[Knightmare]

I hope like anything that the T-Wolves are smart enough to take Towns who was underutilised on that Kentucky team.

Towns for the Lakers would be scary with Randle as their games work together, but Okafor with Randle doesn't scare me at all with neither of Okafor or Randle great defenders.

Phili never needed another big with Noel and Embiid already. So pick 3 probably works well for them without being a gamechanger which is good for everyone else.

The Knicks at 4 works well for everyone else. I think that pick will be better than pick 2 assuming Okafor is pick 2. But the Knicks need a big. So that would be good for everyone else with the Knicks unable to find a big to become relevant.

--
For me the draft is down to the T-Wolves taking Towns with that first pick. And everything else should work out for the likes of the Cavs/Bulls/Clippers/Thunder etc stay up with Lakers/Knicks with those specific picks to struggle to rise, and come free agency next year when the increased salary caps come into the picture, big help for those contending teams not to have a competitive Lakers/Knicks, both of which are natural free agent destinations if competitive, but as non-competitive teams, terrific for everyone else from a winning perspective.

 

[nahnah]

If the knicks pick stanley Johnson I will laugh, he's the next mkg. Russell would be good for them (haven't seen Mudiay or whatever his name is)

 

[nahnah]

On nbadraft.net it has the Cavs selecting RJ Hunter and Travis Trice, would be happy with that even tho it's early days and probably way off lol

 

[wicksy]

I hope like anything that the T-Wolves are smart enough to take Towns who was underutilised on that Kentucky team.

Towns for the Lakers would be scary with Randle as their games work together, but Okafor with Randle doesn't scare me at all with neither of Okafor or Randle great defenders.

Phili never needed another big with Noel and Embiid already. So pick 3 probably works well for them without being a gamechanger which is good for everyone else.

The Knicks at 4 works well for everyone else. I think that pick will be better than pick 2 assuming Okafor is pick 2. But the Knicks need a big. So that would be good for everyone else with the Knicks unable to find a big to become relevant.

--
For me the draft is down to the T-Wolves taking Towns with that first pick. And everything else should work out for the likes of the Cavs/Bulls/Clippers/Thunder etc stay up with Lakers/Knicks with those specific picks to struggle to rise, and come free agency next year when the increased salary caps come into the picture, big help for those contending teams not to have a competitive Lakers/Knicks, both of which are natural free agent destinations if competitive, but as non-competitive teams, terrific for everyone else from a winning perspective.

Who would you liken Towns and Okafor for Knight?
I had a brief look through the draft order and noticed the the Clippers two picks have both been sent to other clubs. Great!!

 

[Knightmare]

If the knicks pick stanley Johnson I will laugh, he's the next mkg. Russell would be good for them (haven't seen Mudiay or whatever his name is)

Johnson isn't such a terrible shooter - MKG didn't even attempt one this season. Johnson is probably something more like a less goofy version of Metta World Peace as someone with a nice height and build, good on the defensive end and ok shooter without being a scorer.

Mudiay is a pretty good point guard. Missed a lot of the season hurt, but started the season in China and finished it with a strong showing in the playoffs. He is a poor man's John Wall.

On nbadraft.net it has the Cavs selecting RJ Hunter and Travis Trice, would be happy with that even tho it's early days and probably way off lol

Keep in mind with the second round few guys taken are actually signed, particularly with contending teams, mostly opting for veterans for the veteran minimum.

Hunter as a 3pt shooter is a good fit. I like nbadraft's Belinelli comparison.

Trice is a tiny point guard, but had a breakout year with Michigan. He has been in the college system for four years so he is a type you'd take to training camp and make a decision on then.

For the Cavs. I look at that team as most needing a guy at the small forward. Hunter I look at more as a shooting guard, but he can slip over to the small forward.

Terran Petteway is one I like for the Cavs. At the small forward he is someone late first round I see as a suitable fit as a role player who can fit on a contender.
Probably same story with the Clippers with Petteway a fit given the positional needs.

 

[Knightmare]

Who would you liken Towns and Okafor for Knight?
I had a brief look through the draft order and noticed the the Clippers two picks have both been sent to other clubs. Great!!

Okafor is something like a poor man's Al Jefferson and NBADraft.com have the right comparison there. Not as reliable from the line, from mid range and not the same rebounder. But similarly good in the post and similarly poor on the defensive end.

Towns is good. I struggle for a good comparison as there isn't someone I see as all that similar. Perhaps something like a more athletic Marc Gasol is about as close as I can get. Nice height and size. Good athlete. Plays good defense. Rebounds well. Can score in the low post but also has an excellent mid range game and ability to convert from the line. He can be one of the best bigs in the game. Like his game a lot. Would be very comfortable picking him at pick one overall.

Probably not a bad thing the Clippers don't have picks. Second round picks can always be bought on draft night with the small market teams often for cash considerations open to selling the pick. So that may be a possibility for the Clippers. But for me I'm not seeing it as the gamechanging draft for the Clippers with that star small forward or shooting guard. So I'd stick for this year to gaining mostly veterans and go as big as possible the following free agency with the new tv money.

 

[nahnah]

not too fussed who we pick at 24, anderson, hunter, all could be used during a long season, already have harris who I like as a spot up shooter.
I would like the Cavs to draft joseph young at 53, I saw him play and I think he could be a productive back up and deserves a chance on a team

I can't believe the clippers have no picks, there goes that plan of making good late selections. Maybe offload crawford for one.

I'm still mad the Cavs passed on Snell a few years ago, I really wanted him and we were linked to him heavily. I think we took Karasev instead or someone else I'm not sure.

 

[Knightmare]

not too fussed who we pick at 24, anderson, hunter, all could be used during a long season, already have harris who I like as a spot up shooter.
I would like the Cavs to draft joseph young at 53, I saw him play and I think he could be a productive back up and deserves a chance on a team

I can't believe the clippers have no picks, there goes that plan of making good late selections. Maybe offload crawford for one.

I'm still mad the Cavs passed on Snell a few years ago, I really wanted him and we were linked to him heavily. I think we took Karasev instead or someone else I'm not sure.

I was mad that year that the Bulls passed on Rudy Gobert who I had as best available on my draft board. I wasn't excited by Snell in his draft year as someone who I felt was too passive on offense, which he still is. But he has grown on me with some good play at times.

The Bulls year after year seem to get it pretty well right. Butler and Mirotic in the same year - both the best availables at picks 30 and 23 each which is pretty incredible.

Snell in a poor draft year can play. And for a team like the Clippers would be terrific as someone who can hit the 3 and defense LeBron/KD etc.

McDermott is the Bulls best 3pt shooter, not that he got minutes this year but next year surely will. And Nurkic who the Bulls initially drafted is for me one of the best from last years draft. Marquis Teague is the only recent miss from the Bulls.

The Cavs never have been great through the draft. Not that that matters with LeBron, Kyrie and Love with all other pieces pretty easily added through free agency/trade.