The Neverending Issue of the Gabba Pitch

[aCunningPlan]

Queensland Cricket requesting the Gabba be left empty for the next six weeks to protect the pitch ruined by the Adele concert...which would require the AFLW grand final being played elsewhere and the first two Lions games being moved.

My question is what is the likelihood of matches being moved and the logistics involved?

Round 2 Saturday, April 01 Brisbane Lions v Essendon @ The Gabba

Round 4 Sunday, April 16 Brisbane Lions v Richmond @ The Gabba

Football, cricket in Gabba turf war after Adele concert damages pitch
ANDREW HAMILTON, The Courier-Mail
March 14, 2017 9:36pm
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...h/news-story/ff93eed49fcd4596ead69ebf367cc7a1

A TURF war has broken out over the Gabba pitch with concerned cricket officials warning the first Ashes Test will be ruined if the AFL Women’s grand final and the Brisbane Lions’ first two home games are played at the ground.

The Lions’ hopes of hosting the inaugural AFLW grand final at the Gabba on March 25 now rest with Stadiums Queensland, which is being lobbied by cricket officials to keep all activity off the ground for six weeks.

Queensland Cricket outlined its fears the Adele concert had damaged the pitches and put the first Ashes Test in jeopardy in a letter to SQ.

A crisis meeting will be held today between SQ, Queensland Cricket and Cricket Australia’s head of venue business Katie Twomey.

It is understood a turf expert has been commissioned to inspect the pitch later this week.

The Gabba pitch the day after Adele’s concert.
An SQ spokesman said no decision had been made regarding the proposed AFLW grand final, as it was “too soon to know” whether the pitch would be ready.

It is understood the letter was sent after chief curator Kevin Mitchell Jr raised concerns over the state of several pitches after the concert, with pitch 5 earmarked for the November 23 Gabba Test.

The damaged areas were replanted late last week and Mr Mitchell’s report said they needed six weeks without traffic to properly take root.

Adele performs at the Gabba. Picture: Getty Images
Queensland Cricket CEO Max Walters on Tuesday night confirmed their request to shift the Lions’ first two home games off the Gabba, stressing that SQ had assured him that no decision had been made regarding the women’s grand final.

“AFL and cricket have their respective interests in this matter ... but SQ is the ultimate arbiter ... We have been assured by SQ that any reports around the venue hosting the AFLW grand final are, at this point, speculation.”

Lions CEO Greg Swann said he was confident the match could be played at the Gabba.

 

[aCunningPlan]

 

[NoobPie]

View attachment 345704

Can someone explain to me what the fuggin problem is with drop in pitches again?

Also, given the hand wringing and bleating (lead by the Lord of the Should Chippers) about the alleged rivers of gold going to football stadiums it is a bit ironic that a co-tenant that has presumably contributed the same amount of money as it has every where else in the country, can credibly ask that another code cannot be played there outside of the former's season

 

[aCunningPlan]

Can someone explain to me what the fuggin problem is with drop in pitches again?

Also, given the hand wringing and bleating (lead by the Lord of the Should Chippers) about the alleged rivers of gold going to football stadiums it is a bit ironic that a co-tenant that has presumably contributed the same amount of money as it has every where else in the country, can credibly ask that another code cannot be played there outside of the former's season

The reality is it is too late to grow drop in pitches for next summer, it takes years to prepare them for each ground's unique conditions. So back in the real world, the issue seems to be that if the pitch is not allowed to reestablish the Ashes test looks to be in trouble with a substandard pitch.

The questions that need to be answered are:
Can the Lions games (or at least one) be switched around?
If this does not occur how serious is the damage to the pitch?
If the damage is as bad as suggested is Stadiums Queensland willing to put an Ashes test (which sells out most days) at risk?

The AFL always reserves the right to alter the fixture as they see fit and other sports seem to do so with relative ease.

 

[Garlic muncher]

So the AFL and it appears AFLW will suffer because of an Adele concert ? - compo ?

And i guess it is also a possibility that there is also an element of Northern state bias against footy - i do remember a SCG boss stating that the SCG would never have a drop in - or over his dead body or never while he was at the wheel etc etc a couple of years ago.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Is this a chance for the Lions to get a better deal from the Gabba ?.

 

[NoobPie]

The reality is it is too late to grow drop in pitches for next summer, it takes years to prepare them for each ground's unique conditions. So back in the real world, the issue seems to be that if the pitch is not allowed to reestablish the Ashes test looks to be in trouble with a substandard pitch.

The questions that need to be answered are:
Can the Lions games (or at least one) be switched around?
If this does not occur how serious is the damage to the pitch?
If the damage is as bad as suggested is Stadiums Queensland willing to put an Ashes test (which sells out most days) at risk?

The AFL always reserves the right to alter the fixture as they see fit and other sports seem to do so with relative ease.

Do you have a source from the "real world" that supports your claim that "it takes years to prepare" drop in pitches? You'll note that nothing in my post suggested that I thought it would be possible this year

The fact that we are in this situation is an indictment on the management of the Gabba by SQ. If they are willing to put a stage on the wicket table than it is a bit much talking about the SQ willing to put and Ashes test at risk.

The ground should have been transitioned to drop in pitches a decade ago. Since 2003 around 60% of the sporting attendances at the Gabba have been for AFL matches

http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/stadiums_crowds.php?id=52
http://afltables.com/afl/crowds/vn_gabba.html

I don't really know what you mean by "The AFL always reserves the right to alter the fixture as they see fit and other sports seem to do so with relative ease". It is seriously a daft statement. In the "real world" an entity "reserves the right" to something ultimately by purchasing said right through contract or having it granted by government. The AFL has more ability to "reserve the right" to control its fixturing across much of the country through contractual arrangements achieved through either direct or indirect contributions to the construction of much of the country's oval stadia. Cricket has achieved almost symmetrical rights for 6 months of the year in a number of stadiums through government benevolence.

 

[BobbyMorri]

maybe the afl/cricket should build their our own stadiums instead of using government money and having to share

after all, this is the same problem as what the a-league always suffers from. or

Poor surfaces are simply a consequence of having 3 different codes play at one stadium, not to mention concerts, rain etc. this topic has been done to death. If the quality of the 'carpet' is so important to soccer, than build your own soccer specific stadiums.

Surely any new turf on the centre square will make it prone to give way, increasing the chance of injuries. i personally cant see the AFL matches being moved. a debate in public is never a good sign for the debater wanting something. but i cant see the AFLW match now being played at the Gabba, which is a shame to the girls involved but that match is easy to change as it hasnt been locked in yet. that is assuming the turf is as bad as they say.

and good luck with Compo. did ACDC pay compo for the Docklands damage? "compo" will only be discussed if a match does have to change. but it would be more of a bribe to whoever has the right of way. but(not knowing anything about turf or contracts), surely if the damage is that bad, it is also in the AFL long term interest for player safety to see what they can do.

just be thankful that this happened this year and not next and the Gold Coast can easily step in if needed.

 

[aCunningPlan]

Do you have a source from the "real world" that supports your claim that "it takes years to prepare" drop in pitches? You'll note that nothing in my post suggested that I thought it would be possible this year

The fact that we are in this situation is an indictment on the management of the Gabba by SQ. If they are willing to put a stage on the wicket table than it is a bit much talking about the SQ willing to put and Ashes test at risk.

The ground should have been transitioned to drop in pitches a decade ago. Since 2003 around 60% of the sporting attendances at the Gabba have been for AFL matches

http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/stadiums_crowds.php?id=52
http://afltables.com/afl/crowds/vn_gabba.html

I don't really know what you mean by "The AFL always reserves the right to alter the fixture as they see fit and other sports seem to do so with relative ease". It is seriously a daft statement. In the "real world" an entity "reserves the right" to something ultimately by purchasing said right through contract or having it granted by government. The AFL has more ability to "reserve the right" to control its fixturing across much of the country through contractual arrangements achieved through either direct or indirect contributions to the construction of much of the country's oval stadia. Cricket has achieved almost symmetrical rights for 6 months of the year in a number of stadiums through government benevolence.

The questions that need to be answered are:
Can the Lions games (or at least one) be switched around?
If this does not occur how serious is the damage to the pitch?
If the damage is as bad as suggested is Stadiums Queensland willing to put an Ashes test (which sells out most days) at risk?

 

[NoobPie]

The questions that need to be answered are:
Can the Lions games (or at least one) be switched around?
If this does not occur how serious is the damage to the pitch?
If the damage is as bad as suggested is Stadiums Queensland willing to put an Ashes test (which sells out most days) at risk?

What are the Lions contractual arrangements?
What compensation would need to be paid to move those games?
Will the Gabba now join the real world and transition to drop in pitches?
What on earth did you actually mean with this daft statement "The AFL always reserves the right to alter the fixture as they see fit and other sports seem to do so with relative ease." ?

 

[NoobPie]

maybe the afl/cricket should build their our own stadiums instead of using government money and having to share

after all, this is the same problem as what the a-league always suffers from. or

No it's not. The AFL is being asked not to play at the ground. It is not the same as some soccer parasite complaining about the turf at a ground they didn't contribute a cent for (ie every ground it uses in this country)

 

[Garlic muncher]

The reality is it is too late to grow drop in pitches for next summer, it takes years to prepare them for each ground's unique conditions. So back in the real world, the issue seems to be that if the pitch is not allowed to reestablish the Ashes test looks to be in trouble with a substandard pitch.

The questions that need to be answered are:
Can the Lions games (or at least one) be switched around?
If this does not occur how serious is the damage to the pitch?
If the damage is as bad as suggested is Stadiums Queensland willing to put an Ashes test (which sells out most days) at risk?

The AFL always reserves the right to alter the fixture as they see fit and other sports seem to do so with relative ease.

The AFL won't change the fixture, I would have thought people have booked, planned and intend to travel after the fixture comes out.

They will be seeking plenty of compo if forced to move, wouldn't be surprised if it was just a headline and the chances are that the games will go ahead.

Not sure about the women's though, but I did link a article about the government looking at helping the AFL build a medium size capacity stadium in Brisbane for the women, this issue could speed that process up.

 

[jatz14]

The AFL won't change the fixture, I would have thought people have booked, planned and intend to travel after the fixture comes out.

They will be seeking plenty of compo if forced to move, wouldn't be surprised if it was just a headline and the chances are that the games will go ahead.

Not sure about the women's though, but I did link a article about the government looking at helping the AFL build a medium size capacity stadium in Brisbane for the women, this issue could speed that process up.

Reading the Lions board, its the prospect of moving the AFLW final drawing the political heat. Feeling there was, if it was just regulation lions games, no one would care.

Its also the AFLW that has put a boutique stadium back on the agenda.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[BobbyMorri]

No it's not. The AFL is being asked not to play at the ground. It is not the same as some soccer parasite complaining about the turf at a ground they didn't contribute a cent for (ie every ground it uses in this country)

geech, how silly of me. The AFL(or cricket) is, of course, different. I have never ever heard of the AFL parasites(is that what we are calling the media, players and fans)complain about the condition of the playing surface. heck, i didnt see you having a sook above about the Gabba not having a drop in pitch. this thread isnt called the "neverending" issue of the Gabba centre wicket. this must not happen every year. and there are never ever any issues with the AFL sharing its ground with other sports and concerts.

it seems that the Queensland Sports minister has got involved and guaranteed that the AFLW match will go ahead. all good but i hope the AFL will have the guts to move it if the surface isnt up to scratch. or even delay it if it super wet to prevent it getting terribly bad for the entire season. The girls and lions deserve a safe surface for the entire season + the ashes test and that should come as first priority over TV or political reasons

 

[Hollow Knight]

Reading the Lions board, its the prospect of moving the AFLW final drawing the political heat. Feeling there was, if it was just regulation lions games, no one would care.

Nah don't think that was the feeling at all. We aren't getting too upset about the idea of moving our home games because it's far too ludicrous to happen.

 

[Rob]

maybe the afl/cricket should build their our own stadiums instead of using government money and having to share

after all, this is the same problem as what the a-league always suffers from. or

Eh? This is the issue of a one off concert that did greater damage to the surface than expected, and in any case the main complainant is not even the AFL.

The A-League complains when regular tenants which have been there for decades use the facility at their usual time in their usual way.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Eh? This is the issue of a one off concert that did greater damage to the surface than expected, and in any case the main complainant is not even the AFL.

The A-League complains when regular tenants which have been there for decades use the facility at their usual time in their usual way.

LOL

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

So apparently only 4 of the 9 pitches are damaged anyway. Absolutely ridiculous!

 

[Demonoid]

maybe the afl/cricket should build their our own stadiums instead of using government money and having to share

after all, this is the same problem as what the a-league always suffers from.

Sorry to burst your bubble Bobby but looks like a drop in pitch at the Gabba will be solution after all and I dare say the SCG will follow very soon as well, given the Swans have moved all their home games back there.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricke...i/news-story/bb67fe9d3db76fe224c43d0f8712ab45

 

[Hollow Knight]

If everyone could go and vote for the drop-in pitch in the poll on that article that would be amazing!

 

[wagstaff]

The underlying issue driving this is the change in power balance between cricket and footy at the Gabba.

10 years ago AFL was the dominant force at the Gabba for the first time ever as the Lions were averaging excellent crowds and Test cricket (Ashes aside) had never been a big drawer at the Gabba and relied on a couple of ODIs to fill the stadium.

Back then there had been calls for drop-in pitches to be removed (certainly Lethal mentioned it publicly) and there was a fear Qld cricket may have to cave.

Now the power balance has completely changed. Partly because Lions crowds have disintegrated but mainly because of the outstanding crowds the BBL gets and - this year - the success of the Day/Night Test. Cricket now has the whip hand and they seem to be trying to exploit their leverage.

It's a strange move by CA with trying to move Lions games as nationwide they are in a battle they can't win. AFL is going to always be the dominant power in Vic/SA/WA on this issue and this is perhaps being driven by resentment towards that. But that's not going to change and it will be a losing battle in the long-run.


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[NoobPie]

The underlying issue driving this is the change in power balance between cricket and footy at the Gabba.

10 years ago AFL was the dominant force at the Gabba for the first time ever as the Lions were averaging excellent crowds and Test cricket (Ashes aside) had never been a big drawer at the Gabba and relied on a couple of ODIs to fill the stadium.

Back then there had been calls for drop-in pitches to be removed (certainly Lethal mentioned it publicly) and there was a fear Qld cricket may have to cave.

Now the power balance has completely changed. Partly because Lions crowds have disintegrated but mainly because of the outstanding crowds the BBL gets and - this year - the success of the Day/Night Test. Cricket now has the whip hand and they seem to be trying to exploit their leverage.

It's a strange move by CA with trying to move Lions games as nationwide they are in a battle they can't win. AFL is going to always be the dominant power in Vic/SA/WA on this issue and this is perhaps being driven by resentment towards that. But that's not going to change and it will be a losing battle in the long-run.


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Particularly stupid of CA given it was an AFLW final they were primarily asking to be shafted. Also, given that apparently only a subset of the pitches were damaged, it doesn't appear that the Ashes pitch was under threat at all. Just a very ill advised power play by CA

....this graphic from the article, in any other year in the last 15 years, would probably have the AFL ahead. I vaguely remember a decade ago the Lions angling for a drop in pitch unsuccessfully. How amusing now that it is when cricket is drawing the crowds and the Lions at their lowest ebb, that an own goal by CA might lead to drop in pitch after all!

 

[BobbyMorri]

Eh? This is the issue of a one off concert that did greater damage to the surface than expected, and in any case the main complainant is not even the AFL.

The A-League complains when regular tenants which have been there for decades use the facility at their usual time in their usual way.

there are always one-off concerts. there was a one-off concert at Adelaide oval as well this week. and there is always a pitch. and the complaints about the Gabba centre wicket are endless.

my point is that no sport is immune to the dangers of multi-purpose arenas which are majority government owned. there wouldnt be an issue if the AFL OR CRICKET had direct ownership so they could treat the surface how they wanted to. but then again, if that was the case. then both stadiums would be sub-standard compared to the modern Gabba.

The AFL complained(and finally left thank god) when ANZ hosted rugby and AFL games in the same week. yet when soccer does it, it is all "build your own stadium" or general rubbish which is outside the realms of reality. basic hypocrisy(from another thread....) There is nothing wrong with an organisation trying to get stadium owners to protect its athletes and/or spectacle. every sport has done it, even Rugby at AAMI Park. No sport likes turf which gives way or gets dug up. Australian sport is built on single multi-purpose stadiums in the city centre and so sharing is something ALL sports has to do in some way or another. i could go into more detail about how codes share but that is more off topic

How did that relate to the above issue? Neither cricket of AFL would have wanted a concert played at the Gabba. but this is what happens with government owned arenas and every sport has to deal with it. I was personally worried that this "turf war" will have no winners and all losers. If the surface is that bad and player safety for the whole seasons(this includes cricket. a bad wicket is dangerous) is in jeopardy, then a balanced, shared approach will be needed to fix the issue. Not a "this is our turn go away" approach. The extreme end of that approach is rescheduling but only if player safety for AFL and cricket was at risk. the amount of rubbish directed to me for such thinking is beyond a joke.

 

[Rob]

there are always one-off concerts. there was a one-off concert at Adelaide oval as well this week. and there is always a pitch. and the complaints about the Gabba centre wicket are endless.

my point is that no sport is immune to the dangers of multi-purpose arenas which are majority government owned. there wouldnt be an issue if the AFL OR CRICKET had direct ownership so they could treat the surface how they wanted to. but then again, if that was the case. then both stadiums would be sub-standard compared to the modern Gabba.

The AFL complained(and finally left thank god) when ANZ hosted rugby and AFL games in the same week. yet when soccer does it, it is all "build your own stadium" or general rubbish which is outside the realms of reality. basic hypocrisy(from another thread....) There is nothing wrong with an organisation trying to get stadium owners to protect its athletes and/or spectacle. every sport has done it, even Rugby at AAMI Park. No sport likes turf which gives way or gets dug up. Australian sport is built on single multi-purpose stadiums in the city centre and so sharing is something ALL sports has to do in some way or another. i could go into more detail about how codes share but that is more off topic

How did that relate to the above issue? Neither cricket of AFL would have wanted a concert played at the Gabba. but this is what happens with government owned arenas and every sport has to deal with it. I was personally worried that this "turf war" will have no winners and all losers. If the surface is that bad and player safety for the whole seasons(this includes cricket. a bad pitch is dangerous) is in jeopardy, then a balanced, shared approach will be needed to fix the issue. Not a "this is our turn go away" approach. The extreme end of that approach is rescheduling. the amount of rubbish directed to me for such thinking is beyond a joke.

You're confusing aesthetics with safety.

A bumpy pitch isn't really a danger to soccer players' safety. The gripe is about the quality of the game. Never mind that it's obvious to all and sundry that a venue that hosted a rugby game the night before will obviously not be in pristine condition the next day.

It's probably not quite as fair to assume that a concert held 8 months before a cricket game would greatly impact the wicket. In any case, that's not the AFL's problem and it's hardly reasonable to expect them to bear the brunt of any cost.

 

[BobbyMorri]

You're confusing aesthetics with safety.

A bumpy pitch isn't really a danger to soccer players' safety. The gripe is about the quality of the game. Never mind that it obvious to all and sundry that a venue that hosted a rugby game the night before will obviously not be in pristine condition the next game.

It's probably not quite as fair to assume that a concert held 8 months before a cricket game would greatly impact the wicket. In any case, that's not the AFL's problem and it's hardly reasonable to expect them to bear the brunt of any cost.

The AFL has had problems in the past with concerts before so it. ACDC for example. my main concern has been player safety for the season for the AFL due to the re-turfing and not cricket pitch for the ashes as long as that is playable. that doesnt mean the Lions have to train on the pitch, though.(though i doubt that happens anyway) They just have to work with cricket to get the best outcome for the city. there was a late edit to my post as i didnt think i have made that clear.

bumpy pitches happen and i agree. not a shock that it happens after a rugby match. but bumpy pitches can happen if there is an underlying concern with the turf giving way. see Asian Cup with suncorp. a lot of the (valid) complaints are due to this happening during the game. that is as much a player safety issue as a look issue. I not defending the a-league. the same situation applies to them as every other sport. you got to "win" your way to better facilities("win" as in why this has to be the case). but you have to make do with what you got and by pointing out the issue it becomes public, you hope it fixes it. It is exactly the same as what cricket has done here. again, my original post has cricket as much(if not more) in the sights as AFL.

the clause is the same main reason as every other sport which shares arenas in the world. 2 NBA matches, for example, had to be cancelled due to ice hockey. that is all i wanted to point out. sharing has benefits and negatives.

most AFL complaints have to do with player safety. but that doesnt mean the AFL doesnt complain about similar bad turf. it doesnt happen as much as the AFL has good contracts with stadiums and all credit for them for working hard on that(and they are yes, less fussy than soccer)