Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[SaintsSeptember]

It really is technology in it's infancy.

And a battery isn't necessary what you think it is. Pumped hydro is a battery. During the day with the excess energy you use it to pump the water back to the top.

Yes pumped Hydro is great. But very capital intensive.
Chemical batteries aren't in their infancy.
It really is a limited technology.
Most of the future gains have "cars" in mind, so they are trying to advance weight, size, and charge time.
None of which is really the issue for power storage.

 

[Noidenous]

 

[George]

Dard Ball Get

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Dard Ball Get

Once Daddy Musk is done with his midlife crisis, he’ll not only solve the energy quandary, but also cure the chinless epidemic.

 

[pebblesofsand]

It will eventually get to the point where Electricity will be cheap as chips during the day, and expensive as hell ( if not browning out ) at night.
I know what you mean by the 135% , but i don't think S.A. has the ability to store much, ( 10 minutes )? so its really only 100%, or were they exporting to Victoria?

Yeah excess exported to Vic. I didn't post the link at the time but it was an interesting read about the future of the grid.

Essentially saying that in the future the vast majority of the cost of power will be in grid and distribution costs ($20+ per MGW) with the actual production cost being as low as $15 per hour. That in itself will create a whole new raft of issues about equity, distribution etc etc

Full article below

Thanks to renewables, 'insanely cheap electricity' is coming. But when?

After years of increases, power prices are set to fall, thanks largely to cheap solar. So how cheap can solar get? And what does this mean for your electricity bill?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Once Daddy Musk is done with his midlife crisis, he’ll not only solve the energy quandary, but also cure the chinless epidemic.
View attachment 1292221

I hope he didn't pay for that haircut.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yeah excess exported to Vic. I didn't post the link at the time but it was an interesting read about the future of the grid.

Essentially saying that in the future the vast majority of the cost of power will be in grid and distribution costs ($20+ per MGW) with the actual production cost being as low as $15 per hour. That in itself will create a whole new raft of issues about equity, distribution etc etc

Full article below

Thanks to renewables, 'insanely cheap electricity' is coming. But when?

After years of increases, power prices are set to fall, thanks largely to cheap solar. So how cheap can solar get? And what does this mean for your electricity bill?

www.abc.net.au

It makes more sense to have a crapload of Solar on your roof in Melbourne than to pay for it from S.A.
I'm currently investigating a scheme the Victorian government have , on behalf of my employer, who's overseas management want us to improve our footprint.
We rent a factory, so its not as simple as purchasing it.
The scheme is administered through the Council, and allows finance to be attached to the building and payable through the rates.

The business mainly operates during daylight hours and I figure we can get around 20% of our electricity from Solar Panels, and we can set the repayment period so that its cash neutral.
I haven't even costed in any payback we might get from selling to the grid on weekends etc. ( it may not be reliable long term ).

Environmental Upgrade Finance

Victorian businesses can upgrade their buildings to be more energy efficient and sustainable, through laws that enable them to use Environmental Upgrade Finance (EUF), previously known as Environmental Upgrade Agreements.

www.energy.vic.gov.au

I still think the cost of night electricity will be high though.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

That premiership celebration the Dee's are having sounds like it was well put together

 

[gringo2011]

It will eventually get to the point where Electricity will be cheap as chips during the day, and expensive as hell ( if not browning out ) at night.
I know what you mean by the 135% , but i don't think S.A. has the ability to store much, ( 10 minutes )? so its really only 100%, or were they exporting to Victoria?

Batteries will have to get installed inside homes IMO. The Tesla cars can store from solar and use it to feed back in to the house at night as well. That sort of thing will probably become more common.

 

[gringo2011]

I hope he didn't pay for that haircut.

Look like he gets his hair cut in North Korea.

 

[Joffaboy]

Brothers best mate for 50 years, son David Russell, just co drove to P3 in the Bathurst 1000.
Geoff was a V8 driver and David drives Porches, really great result.
FIRST ever Bathurst 1000 podium for him.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Batteries will have to get installed inside homes IMO. The Tesla cars can store from solar and use it to feed back in to the house at night as well. That sort of thing will probably become more common.

At the moment most houses can't hold enough panels to fully charge a Tesla.
Not sure your car will generate much unless its hardly driven.
For daily charging of a Tesla, ( assuming maybe 40km ) you need an entire powerwall just for the Tesla.

 

[gringo2011]

At the moment most houses can't hold enough panels to fully charge a Tesla.
Not sure your car will generate much unless its hardly driven.
For daily charging of a Tesla, ( assuming maybe 40km ) you need an entire powerwall just for the Tesla.

You can get power out of the grid, the generation can be done over the whole state and fed back in and you just save your power for the night use in batteries while it's free or cheap. They will never store enough power for everyone externally, it's the logical progression where ever house has their own storage like we have hot water services.

 

[Noidenous]

You can get power out of the grid, the generation can be done over the whole state and fed back in and you just save your power for the night use in batteries while it's free or cheap. They will never store enough power for everyone externally, it's the logical progression where ever house has their own storage like we have hot water services.

Your fridge alone will drain a garage of batteries in one night.

 

[jwikked]

Your fridge alone will drain a garage of batteries in one night.

I guess this post just shows how little you know about either battery technology or how much power fridges use. A Tesla power wall (which doesn’t take up much space, let alone an entire garage) gives you 13.5kw.
If your fridge runs at 200watts per hour, you could easily run it for 67.5 hours straight.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I guess this post just shows how little you know about either battery technology or how much power fridges use. A Tesla power wall (which doesn’t take up much space, let alone an entire garage) gives you 13.5kw.
If your fridge runs at 200watts per hour, you could easily run it for 67.5 hours straight.

I can see a possibility for "smart "devices.
For example, if the power goes off you fridge is able to go a fair while without operation before food will spoil.
The grid could communicate with things like smart freezers , washing machines , dryers, dishwashers etc and manage their cycles based on grid status.
A frost free refrigerator has a cycle where it stops freezing, and electric element melts the frost , then it freezes again. It doesn't need to happen on a random timer, it can happen when plenty of electricity is available.

 

[Noidenous]

I guess this post just shows how little you know about either battery technology or how much power fridges use. A Tesla power wall (which doesn’t take up much space, let alone an entire garage) gives you 13.5kw.
If your fridge runs at 200watts per hour, you could easily run it for 67.5 hours straight.

How Long Does a Tesla Powerwall Last Without Solar Panels?
Based on the average home consuming 28 kWh/day, one Powerwall will be able to power a home for 12 hours. Two Powerwall's will power a home for 18 hours, and three Powerwall's will run a home for 24 hours.


Diminishing storage returns, degradation of components in the wall and connected devices etc all adds up. 13.5kw is the marketed figure.

 

[jwikked]

How Long Does a Tesla Powerwall Last Without Solar Panels?
Based on the average home consuming 28 kWh/day, one Powerwall will be able to power a home for 12 hours. Two Powerwall's will power a home for 18 hours, and three Powerwall's will run a home for 24 hours.


Diminishing storage returns, degradation of components in the wall and connected devices etc all adds up.

So in other words, can easily handle running a fridge overnight.

 

[Noidenous]

So in other words, can easily handle running a fridge overnight.

Until it doesn't anymore.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

I hope he didn't pay for that haircut.

The man forked out thousands of dollars for hair plugs and he'll damn well style them anyway he pleases!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

LOL at Heather Eastman trying to sing like Yoko.

 

[jwikked]

Until it doesn't anymore.

Why are you so determined to push lies about battery storage? You’ve been shown to be incredibly wrong already, and instead of accepting that you double down with nonsense. Are you one of those loons that would love a coal powered station in their backyard? Coal power is no longer necessary lol. This isn’t the 1950’s anymore.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Why are you so determined to push lies about battery storage? You’ve been shown to be incredibly wrong already, and instead of accepting that you double down with nonsense. Are you one of those loons that would love a coal powered station in their backyard? Coal power is no longer necessary lol. This isn’t the 1950’s anymore.

You haven't got it completely right either.
I already did a study on running the factory where i work with 20% solar energy. Very viable.
It was based on us using pretty much everything that was generated on weekdays.
The next phase would be to have surplus Solar and store some.
I then looked at Commercially available batteries ..and simply not viable for us.
A Tesla Powerwall would have stored something like 10 minutes for us and we are not big.

From memory i think that the Snowy II pumped hydro scheme has capacity something like Hazelwood Power Station size. Its great , but its using existing infrastructure.

Yes a Powerwall will power a fridge , no it won't power industry.
A Powerwall won't even charge a Tesla in most cases.

Its physics , not a fashion statement. We need some sort of large scale energy generation to get us through windless nights or we will end up having brownouts when the existing coal stations retire.
But suggest that and everyone gets all emotional....Fossil Fuels .....Nuclear ......Evil Evil.... and pop their head in the ground pretending big batteries will be the answer.
Or maybe the solution is to do away with all industry so we can sell coffee to each other, except for the few lucky ones who work for Gina.

 

[gringo2011]

How Long Does a Tesla Powerwall Last Without Solar Panels?
Based on the average home consuming 28 kWh/day, one Powerwall will be able to power a home for 12 hours. Two Powerwall's will power a home for 18 hours, and three Powerwall's will run a home for 24 hours.


Diminishing storage returns, degradation of components in the wall and connected devices etc all adds up. 13.5kw is the marketed figure.

So it lasts the amount of time it remains dark and then solar and other renewables provide the base load through the grid still but we don't need to run a power station or have huge storage batteries expected to run whole cities. Most houses have their own generating solar that feeds back in. It could work pretty easily.

Honestly the way technologies are going it's only going to get better. It provides incentive to make more and more efficient fridges and washers etc as well.

I'm building an off grid cabin and been researching solar systems for a couple of years and in that time things progress so much that what ever you buy now will be outdated in a few months. Guys are building solar generators in their back yard that will run a caravan or tradies ute and the price drops all the time.

A guy came up with a concept where they make everything 12 volt instead of 240 years ago and said it would revolutionise the power grid. The way we operate is a remnant from the past. Like big 1950s American cars in Havana or something. We have never really bothered with efficiency because people buy stuff regardless.

 

[gringo2011]

You haven't got it completely right either.
I already did a study on running the factory where i work with 20% solar energy. Very viable.
It was based on us using pretty much everything that was generated on weekdays.
The next phase would be to have surplus Solar and store some.
I then looked at Commercially available batteries ..and simply not viable for us.
A Tesla Powerwall would have stored something like 10 minutes for us and we are not big.

From memory i think that the Snowy II pumped hydro scheme has capacity something like Hazelwood Power Station size. Its great , but its using existing infrastructure.

Yes a Powerwall will power a fridge , no it won't power industry.
A Powerwall won't even charge a Tesla in most cases.

Its physics , not a fashion statement. We need some sort of large scale energy generation to get us through windless nights or we will end up having brownouts when the existing coal stations retire.
But suggest that and everyone gets all emotional....Fossil Fuels .....Nuclear ......Evil Evil.... and pop their head in the ground pretending big batteries will be the answer.
Or maybe the solution is to do away with all industry so we can sell coffee to each other, except for the few lucky ones who work for Gina.

You can store in bigger batteries than a power wall though. Maybe industrial applications will have large battery storages and maybe some kind of onsite fuel powered generator like they did in the old days for when electricity was less reliable as back up. It's not there yet but it will happen as renewables take over. It will get to a point where no investment will come in for old technologies and there will be a lot of work on things like efficiency of electric motors. They've already replaced every high-bay light with LEDs and it's meant to have saved some insane amount of power.