The new UGLY....

[larrikan]

Following the St Kilda Bulldogs game last night, I have completely revised our loss to St Kilda.

Ross Lyon ( I hate saying his name ) was at Sydney when they were playing what Demetriou branded ugly football. Now St Kilda are choking sides, forcing them wide and shutting games down. It's the old Sydney style all over again.

There is perceived pressure even when the opposition has an easy shot on goal. Their game style is draining and tiresome.

You cannot kick long to a contest because they zone back. Gilbert needs a defensive tag.

Collingwood and the Bulldogs showed when they went quickly through the corridor long to one out contests the Saints can be beaten.

IT WASNT OUR PLAYERS - IT WAS THE COACHES!

Why do we have a box full of coaching staff that play into St Kilda's game plan?

We have the running players and talls to smash this game style.

FFS MM and Eade are you're egos that big that you won't change plans mid game to smash Lyons UGLY DUCKLINGS.

 

[Optimax]

You know if we kicked just sorta straight (half weren't hard), we would have won

now when I plated footy and i made a skill error I never turned around said it was all the coaches fault, we very much lost the game due to our players inept ability to finish.

Also if we were so shit at dealing with zones, how did we thump hawthorn?

Also shit thread

 

[Swan4Brownlow]

Following the St Kilda Bulldogs game last night, I have completely revised our loss to St Kilda.

Ross Lyon ( I hate saying his name ) was at Sydney when they were playing what Demetriou branded ugly football. Now St Kilda are choking sides, forcing them wide and shutting games down. It's the old Sydney style all over again.

There is perceived pressure even when the opposition has an easy shot on goal. Their game style is draining and tiresome.

You cannot kick long to a contest because they zone back. Gilbert needs a defensive tag.

Collingwood and the Bulldogs showed when they went quickly through the corridor long to one out contests the Saints can be beaten.

IT WASNT OUR PLAYERS - IT WAS THE COACHES!

Why do we have a box full of coaching staff that play into St Kilda's game plan?

We have the running players and talls to smash this game style.

FFS MM and Eade are you're egos that big that you won't change plans mid game to smash Lyons UGLY DUCKLINGS.

It isn't just THAT easy. Gee I thought we all went over this in the week after that game when everyone was saying the Pies were hopeless, had no hope of beating the better sides, same old close enough but not good enough etc. St Kilda's strength is that they apply great pressure all over the ground, starting with the midfield where they tackle and harrass like possessed fiends. If you simply try to keep the ball moving forward 'at all costs' because you want to get to our forward line with a 1 on 1 contest, chances are you will cough the ball up in a chain of handballs and they will smack you on the rebound.With Fisher back into their side it takes away so much of their vulnerability. Make no mistake about it, Fisher and Gilbert are just as good if not better at zoning off their men to impact a contest as Maxwell, Harry O and Shaw.

 

[jefffff34]

Both us and the Bulldogs lost to St.Kilda simply by kicking badly...

Us - round 3 - 19%
Bulldogs - round 6 - 38%

Simple as that. St.Kilda's 5-1 record at this very moment is very, very fraudulent.

 

[Thommo 42]

The Swans weren't nearly as ugly as that, they crowded stoppages and played tough man on man footy.

The Saints crowd their defensive 50, sometimes setting up with 15 blokes behind the centre square when the ball is in dispute on the wing....

 

[mattys123]

Both us and the Bulldogs lost to St.Kilda simply by kicking badly...

Us - round 3 - 19%
Bulldogs - round 6 - 38%

Simple as that. St.Kilda's 5-1 record at this very moment is very, very fraudulent.

On face value, you are right, that if the Dogs and Pies kicked straight, the Saints would be 3-3, but I believe there is more to this then just plain accuracy.

I believe StKilda defensive game style places so much pressure on players when they are having a shot for goal, especially from a set position, that they invariably miss more shots then they kick, due to the "inferred" pressure of knowing they are not going to get so many shots at goal.

That was a terrible game last night, but not for one minute do I blame StKilda for playing that style, as with their 3rd game in 12 days, against the Dogs at Etihad, the only chance they had of winning was to shut the game down and keep it close all night.

Overall though, I think the Saints ability to make their opponents kick inaccurately is more so a blight on the mental strength of AFL forwards then it is on StKilda.

I think most AFL forwards seem to be so weak of mind that all it takes is a little inferred pressure and all of a sudden a normally good kick misses an otherwise "easy" set shot.

I was also quite happy the Dogs lost in the end, they are starting to annoy me a lot with the way their supporters think of our club, and I have no sympathy for their premiership drought at all.

Also, if anyone hear thinks StKilda were ever going to miss top 4, even without Roo, you are kidding yourself, as they are too well drilled to lose enough games to do that.

The Dogs are almost gone as a top contender, that is the positive to come out of last night from a pies perspective.

Ugly football doesn't look ugly to the winning team, does it?

 

[gimp!]

On face value, you are right, that if the Dogs and Pies kicked straight, the Saints would be 3-3, but I believe there is more to this then just plain accuracy.

I believe StKilda defensive game style places so much pressure on players when they are having a shot for goal, especially from a set position, that they invariably miss more shots then they kick, due to the "inferred" pressure of knowing they are not going to get so many shots at goal.

That was a terrible game last night, but not for one minute do I blame StKilda for playing that style, as with their 3rd game in 12 days, against the Dogs at Etihad, the only chance they had of winning was to shut the game down and keep it close all night.

Overall though, I think the Saints ability to make their opponents kick inaccurately is more so a blight on the mental strength of AFL forwards then it is on StKilda.

I think most AFL forwards seem to be so weak of mind that all it takes is a little inferred pressure and all of a sudden a normally good kick misses an otherwise "easy" set shot.

I was also quite happy the Dogs lost in the end, they are starting to annoy me a lot with the way their supporters think of our club, and I have no sympathy for their premiership drought at all.

Also, if anyone hear thinks StKilda were ever going to miss top 4, even without Roo, you are kidding yourself, as they are too well drilled to lose enough games to do that.

The Dogs are almost gone as a top contender, that is the positive to come out of last night from a pies perspective.

Ugly football doesn't look ugly to the winning team, does it?

I am assuming that this is just bitterness for some reason, as I fail to see how a 3 point margin would put the Bulldogs out of contention?

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

Sorry Hoggy - that's complete bullshit.

Against you they had two on the bench, and lost arguably the best player in the competition. Despite that you couldn't get over the top of them, and honestly on the balance of play I'm not positive that you would've. And who's to say that they wouldn't have just put on the afterburners if you guys had really narrowed the gap or hit the lead?

Dogs had it won even with their shonky kicking, that's how good they were playing. But still were overcome by a 5 minute spell of brilliant Saints play that overawed them, and showed who the real contender was.

St. Kilda's 5-1 record shows just why they should stake their claims again this year.
They cannot be held accountable for teams not wanting it as much as them.
Nor can they be held accountable for teams thinking they had won the match before the final siren.

Pay credit where it is due.

 

[Bay Pie]

The Swans weren't nearly as ugly as that, they crowded stoppages and played tough man on man footy.

The Saints crowd their defensive 50, sometimes setting up with 15 blokes behind the centre square when the ball is in dispute on the wing....

Agree. Swans were never that ugly but Vlad won't say a word as they are hoping for a St.Kilda flag before the 2 new teams come in and dominate hence St.Kilda play Cats & Dogs only once.

Against you they had two on the bench, and lost arguably the best player in the competition. Despite that you couldn't get over the top of them, and honestly on the balance of play I'm not positive that you would've. And who's to say that they wouldn't have just put on the afterburners if you guys had really narrowed the gap or hit the lead?

An ineffectual Reiwoldt (5 touches at half time -2 being off the ball free kicks) played half a game.

Fisher missed only 10 minutes of actual game time. So 2 on the bench for a very limited time and the 10 minutes for Fisher was split either side of a break, so Fishers absence hardly effected play at all. Most players for both teams would spend 3/5 stints on the bench at any 1 time.

We were over the top of them for 3 quarters (including the 2 that Reiwoldt played), poor kicking for goal cost us the game as much as anything. 0 goals 16 behinds from turnovers which are the best opportunity to score a goal from.

 

[StillWaiting5689]

Whilst we did kick bad against the saints it does seem to be a running trend in all our games against st kilda. There is more to it then just inaccuracy on the night.

 

[StillWaiting5689]

Also if we were so shit at dealing with zones, how did we thump hawthorn?

Hawthorn aren't playing anywhere near their best football and they didn;t have a very strong team playing on top of that. Was a positive though smashing them, next time we play the saints will be interesting how we go compared to the last few times.

 

[jefffff34]

Sorry Hoggy - that's complete bullshit.

Against you they had two on the bench, and lost arguably the best player in the competition. Despite that you couldn't get over the top of them, and honestly on the balance of play I'm not positive that you would've. And who's to say that they wouldn't have just put on the afterburners if you guys had really narrowed the gap or hit the lead?

How does St.Kilda losing a full forward affect how Collingwood or the Western Bulldogs kick at goal? Sam Fisher missed 20 minutes of the match ffs.

 

[Bay Pie]

How does St.Kilda losing a full forward affect how Collingwood or the Western Bulldogs kick at goal? Sam Fisher missed 20 minutes of the match ffs.

Hoggy, you didn't think you'd get a balanced and unbiased opinion of us from a carlton supporter did you?

 

[danielnajdek]

st kilda are the most boring team to watch. they have so many good players why play so ****ing boring? just shows they depend too much on riewoldt and don't trust themselves to kick to kosi.

 

[Frankie23]

FFS MM and Eade are you're egos that big that you won't change plans mid game to smash Lyons UGLY DUCKLINGS.

Change our gameplan to what? We can't teach players a new plan in the 20 minutes we have of half time when gameplans take whole pre-seasons to develop, use some sense.

The fact is we kicked 4.17, If we kick straight we wouldve won easily. We now know we have the gameplan to compete, it's just a matter of finishing off our hardwork through scoreboard pressure.