The next Media rights deal (2023-?)

[Gigantor]

But Foxtel’s overheads are way more expensive that’s my they are not making any money

A large chunk of the overheads are those billion dollar deals!
That's the point, no one is going to pay that much money for content and charge peanuts.

 

[Seedsfan]

A large chunk of the overheads are those billion dollar deals!
That's the point, no one is going to pay that much money for content and charge peanuts.

The big thing that cripples them is the cost of doing business, that’s why they are trying to get people over to Kayo or binge as the cost of them doing business the other way is putting them out of business

 

[Gigantor]

The big thing that cripples them is the cost of doing business, that’s why they are trying to get people over to Kayo or binge as the cost of them doing business the other way is putting them out of business

I would think the Kayo pricing structure is only feasible off the back of Fox Sports already having paid out for the content, already having the infrastracture in place, etc.
But if the whole thing is predicated on Kayo alone, then those billion dollar broadcast deals are no longer affordable (if they want to charge Netflix level fees).
This is also why sports going it alone, with their own STV or equivalent is very tricky.
In the AFL's case, even if all 1 million members paid any additional $100 to access an AFL specific streaming service, that's only grossing $100 million per annum, i.e. haven't even factored in production costs.
This is also why it's hilarious when soccer fans start making the case that the A-League should go it alone - they reckon they can net $60 million per annum on subscriptions, which is nonsense.
They'd be lucky to net $6 million per annum.

 

[Seedsfan]

I would think the Kayo pricing structure is only feasible off the back of Fox Sports already having paid out for the content, already having the infrastracture in place, etc.
But if the whole thing is predicated on Kayo alone, then those billion dollar broadcast deals are no longer affordable (if they want to charge Netflix level fees).
This is also why sports going it alone, with their own STV or equivalent is very tricky.
In the AFL's case, even if all 1 million members paid any additional $100 to access an AFL specific streaming service, that's only grossing $100 million per annum, i.e. haven't even factored in production costs.
This is also why it's hilarious when soccer fans start making the case that the A-League should go it alone - they reckon they can net $60 million per annum on subscriptions, which is nonsense.
They'd be lucky to net $6 million per annum.

The main thing that cripples Fox is the cost it has delivering the service that’s why they are trying to switch to satellite to get out of having to pay line. None of their competitors have those costs.

Is anyone going to pay 400m a year for the footy again probably not but half that cost is split between the FTA broadcaster and the pay tv provider. Also it’s more than $10 a month, $19 for a 4K package then $10 on top for the sports package so if they picked up 1 million subscribers you are looking at $348,000,000 annually. Plus they will work in ads pre game and half time that will generate income

 

[Rob]

The main thing that cripples Fox is the cost it has delivering the service that’s why they are trying to switch to satellite to get out of having to pay line. None of their competitors have those costs.

True, but that also comes with customers being more likely to stay with the service during the off season. Streaming services can be switched on and off on a whim - and we've seen pretty volatile subscriber numbers for Kayo for that reason. Footy season finishes, people cancel their subscription. Foxtel subscriber numbers appear to be a bit more stable.

Is anyone going to pay 400m a year for the footy again probably not but half that cost is split between the FTA broadcaster and the pay tv provider. Also it’s more than $10 a month, $19 for a 4K package then $10 on top for the sports package so if they picked up 1 million subscribers you are looking at $348,000,000 annually. Plus they will work in ads pre game and half time that will generate income

There's some huge assumptions in that - half your projected income is everyone going the 4K upgrade. An then another half of that is assuming people will subscribe for the whole year. $40 a month for a streaming service - especially if it doesn't have the depth of Foxtel - is not going to get a million subscribers if the AFL remains a huge presence on FTA TV.

 

[Seedsfan]

True, but that also comes with customers being more likely to stay with the service during the off season. Streaming services can be switched on and off on a whim - and we've seen pretty volatile subscriber numbers for Kayo for that reason. Footy season finishes, people cancel their subscription. Foxtel subscriber numbers appear to be a bit more stable.



There's some huge assumptions in that - half your projected income is everyone going the 4K upgrade. An then another half of that is assuming people will subscribe for the whole year. $40 a month for a streaming service - especially if it doesn't have the depth of Foxtel - is not going to get a million subscribers if the AFL remains a huge presence on FTA TV.

It’s between $20, 25 or 29 a month total. Yes people will drop off over the off season or drop the $10 a month for the time they don’t want the sports package. That’s why they will look to offer summer sports offerings and back the entertainment side of things so it has something to offer the whole family and not just the one who wants the sport.

But if you are not making money like Foxtel isn’t does it matter if your customers base in more stable? No

 

[NoobPie]

The main thing that cripples Fox is the cost it has delivering the service that’s why they are trying to switch to satellite to get out of having to pay line. None of their competitors have those costs.

Is anyone going to pay 400m a year for the footy again probably not but half that cost is split between the FTA broadcaster and the pay tv provider. Also it’s more than $10 a month, $19 for a 4K package then $10 on top for the sports package so if they picked up 1 million subscribers you are looking at $348,000,000 annually. Plus they will work in ads pre game and half time that will generate income

The AFL rights in 2023 and 2024 are for $473M a year....

Statement: AFL extends broadcast rights deal with Foxtel, Telstra

The AFL has reached a new agreement with long-time broadcast partners Foxtel and Telstra until the end of 2024

www.afl.com.au

 

[Bjo187]

The big thing that cripples them is the cost of doing business, that’s why they are trying to get people over to Kayo or binge as the cost of them doing business the other way is putting them out of business

I disagree with this because i called foxtel to ask them for a better deal, they gave very minimal almost useless offers, then i said 'can you tell me about kayo? i might just switch to that then'. All of a sudden i was transferred to a local branch and they offered me pretty much the world to stay with foxtel.

 

[Seedsfan]

I disagree with this because i called foxtel to ask them for a better deal, they gave very minimal almost useless offers, then i said 'can you tell me about kayo? i might just switch to that then'. All of a sudden i was transferred to a local branch and they offered me pretty much the world to stay with foxtel.

That’s because they are desperate to keep customers as people keep abandoning them as their cost of delivering a service is too high

 

[Seedsfan]

The AFL rights in 2023 and 2024 are for $473M a year....

Statement: AFL extends broadcast rights deal with Foxtel, Telstra

The AFL has reached a new agreement with long-time broadcast partners Foxtel and Telstra until the end of 2024

www.afl.com.au

They aren’t going to hit 2b for 5 years again. They just extended the old deal but when it goes to a bidding process it won’t get that price

 

[whatwhatsaywhat]

announcement pending...

 

[NoobPie]

They aren’t going to hit 2b for 5 years again. They just extended the old deal but when it goes to a bidding process it won’t get that price

I don't think that is a very rational conclusion, sorry

 

[Gigantor]

They aren’t going to hit 2b for 5 years again. They just extended the old deal but when it goes to a bidding process it won’t get that price

That might be right, but from what we know today, there is a greater chance of getting that much with a combo of STV/FTA than there is getting it with the AFL running its own streaming service.
Yes, we all know that one day, that might end up being the reality, but all the more reason why you squeeze the current broadcasters for everything they have while they're still keen to pay it.
To be honest, I'm surprised that as of today, we are still getting that sort of cash.
The streaming option has been around for a while now - 4 years ago, you'd have thought it would have been king by 2021 - but it's not.

 

[Seedsfan]

I don't think that is a very rational conclusion, sorry

A lot of articles around pre covid saying that when the AFL and NRL rights came up they wouldn’t get what they did before as they had over paid

 

[NoobPie]

A lot of articles around pre covid saying that when the AFL and NRL rights came up they wouldn’t get what they did before as they had over paid

Yeah but the fact the AFL has signed for more in 23 and 24 suggest those articles were off the mark

It seems less likely that the AFL will get the growth rates of the last 3 decades however the "overpaid this time less next time" has been a dominant narrative between deals for decades

 

[magic_johnson!]

View attachment 1049783

announcement pending...

No more Telstra live pass - Telstra customers to instead get access to discounted Kayo subscription:

Telstra is offering an exclusive offer for customers who have previously used the NRL and AFL Live Passes. Eligible customers will now receive a special offer from Telstra of $20/month off Kayo’s Basic subscription (usually $25/month) for 12 months providing them with Kayo for just $5/month for 12 months.

This exclusive offer gives Telstra Live Pass customers access to every game of every round of the AFL and NRL regular seasons (including the Finals Series in the lead up to the AFL and NRL Grand Finals), and also 50 premier local and international sports live and on-demand, across multiple devices and screens. All other Telstra consumer customers have access to a special offer of $10/month off Kayo’s Basic subscription for 12 months (equates to Kayo Basic $15/month for 12 months). More information here: http://hub.telstra.com.au/kayo

Statement: Telstra delivers giant leap forward for sports streaming with Kayo

Telstra will expand its sports streaming offering with a long-term partnership with Kayo Sports for the AFL Live App

www.afl.com.au

 

[JohnZ]

announcement pending...

AFL/NRL Live apps to be replaced by Kayo

AFL, NRL announce game-changing new Kayo partnership

AFL, NRL announce game-changing new Kayo partnership

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[RUNVS]

AFL/NRL Live apps to be replaced by Kayo

AFL, NRL announce game-changing new Kayo partnership

AFL, NRL announce game-changing new Kayo partnership

www.foxsports.com.au

Well sh*t. I use the AFL app all the time, and being able to watch games and not eat into my data limit (as a Telstra customer) was super useful.

 

[Seedsfan]

Yeah but the fact the AFL has signed for more in 23 and 24 suggest those articles were off the mark

It seems less likely that the AFL will get the growth rates of the last 3 decades however the "overpaid this time less next time" has been a dominant narrative between deals for decades

7 hasn’t posted a profit in years and is trying to unload the cricket, Foxtel is virtually bankrupt and you think the status quo will be maintained into the future and they will just pony up more cash to keep it they way it’s always been?

 

[RUNVS]

7 hasn’t posted a profit in years and is trying to unload the cricket, Foxtel is virtually bankrupt and you think the status quo will be maintained into the future and they will just pony up more cash to keep it they way it’s always been?

Unfortunately sooner or later the AFL will be entirely online and entirely subscription-based. It is the future of sports broadcasting.

 

[The City Boyz]

Well sh*t. I use the AFL app all the time, and being able to watch games and not eat into my data limit (as a Telstra customer) was super useful.

Will they still have the scores? Don't really wanna pay to check how the Doggies are going ****

 

[RUNVS]

You know what sucks. AFL fans have to pay for a full membership, meaning access to the NRL as well. Why not only have an AFL membership which only gives access to AFL games but at a cheaper price than full membership? Why force AFL fans to sign up to the NRL, and force NRL fans to sign up to the AFL?

 

[Seedsfan]

Unfortunately sooner or later the AFL will be entirely online and entirely subscription-based. It is the future of sports broadcasting.

Yes and know, it’s time they went the way of the NFL, EPL and NBA produce all their own content. It gives them a lot more flexibility when selling the product.

 

[RUNVS]

Yes and know, it’s time they went the way of the NFL, EPL and NBA produce all their own content. It gives them a lot more flexibility when selling the product.

Agreed. People able to buy an individual team pass, so for instance I could buy a Swans pass that would give me access to Swans games for lets say $5 a month, and if I buy access to all 9 games then it is $25 a month (or something to that effect).

Only concern is the AFL have not yet mastered how to run a website, something they should have mastered 25 years ago. I am not sure how they are going to handle streaming.

 

[Seedsfan]

Agreed. People able to buy an individual team pass, so for instance I could buy a Swans pass that would give me access to Swans games for lets say $5 a month, and if I buy access to all 9 games then it is $25 a month (or something to that effect).

Only concern is the AFL have not yet mastered how to run a website, something they should have mastered 25 years ago. I am not sure how they are going to handle streaming.

Well there is so many ways they could sell it by law there has to be a package on FTA and they could sell one of the networks. But outside of that they could sell the entire season, club specific packages, they could sell the rights to other streaming services as well so the footy could be a value add. Until they produce their own content they limit themselves big time