The next Media rights deal (2023-?)

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NoobPie

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You could isolate the dollars paid for rights to each game now. Thats the money that wont be in the bank at the AFL/paid to the clubs for putting on the spectacle.

Interesting that in your first para, your estimate the cost to the round $mil.
It wouldn't be anywhere near $1M per game. I would be really surprised if the entire per game costs (even allocating 7 and foxtels broader AFL production costs were over $250K per game. That is over $50M per year.
 

Kwality

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It wouldn't be anywhere near $1M per game. I would be really surprised if the entire per game costs (even allocating 7 and foxtels broader AFL production costs were over $250K per game. That is over $50M per year.
Not a criticism of JohnZ having a go.

I think the success of 7+ was an example of what can come out of the FTA sector next time.
Whether the likes of Amazon are interested enough to be involved comes back to the dollars than can make from it, imho.



 
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JohnZ

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It wouldn't be anywhere near $1M per game. I would be really surprised if the entire per game costs (even allocating 7 and foxtels broader AFL production costs were over $250K per game. That is over $50M per year.
$1m was a very conservative estimate. I don't know how much it costs to pay for on and off air crew, hire the cameras from NEP, pay for the broadcast truck etc. If you reckon it can be done for $250k per game that's pretty good.

As I was saying, the majority of the "rights" costs (the money paid to the AFL for TV exclusivity) should easily be able to be re-couped through advertising alone.

The remaining $250k via subscription (streaming) gives me hope that a player like Amazon or Apple or Stan Sport could make it work.
 

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RussellEbertHandball

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When 7 renegotiated their rights in June last year, saying they had cut $70mil off rights fees + $17mil in production costs between 2020-2022 seasons, the article linked below said the following about their production costs.

For the original 2017-22 TV deal, 7 covered 77 games a year + 9 finals + 2 weekly footy shows - Talking Footy and AFL Game Day on Sunday mornings + the Brownlow. The 2 footy shows were axed and part of the post Covid $17mil production cost savings along with having the broadcasters based in a studio, not flying them around Oz. 7's original deal was $840mil cash + $60mil advertising contras over 6 seasons.

I don't know if the production costs mentioned below include AFLW.


The AFL will now receive $730 million from Seven over the next five years, an average annual payment of $147 million each year. Seven was expected to pay about $150 million this year, with production costs of about $20 million.
 

Kwality

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For those keen on the demise of Foxtel here is an update:

The media landscape continues to evolve.
 

JohnZ

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For those keen on the demise of Foxtel here is an update:

The media landscape continues to evolve.
Foxtel isn't going anywhere, they were looking suspect but their pivot to Kayo and Binge has served them well.
 

Seedsfan

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Not a criticism of JohnZ having a go.

I think the success of 7+ was an example of what can come out of the FTA sector next time.
Whether the likes of Amazon are interested enough to be involved comes back to the dollars than can make from it, imho.



7+ was and is horrid, never again should it be used for live broadcasts
 

Seedsfan

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For those keen on the demise of Foxtel here is an update:

The media landscape continues to evolve.
So the head of a struggling business comes out and says they are fine. Ultimately the AFL NRL and Cricket will decide the future of fox. If they get out bid on those sports they are dead in the water if they retain them they will be fine
 

Kwality

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So the head of a struggling business comes out and says they are fine. Ultimately the AFL NRL and Cricket will decide the future of fox. If they get out bid on those sports they are dead in the water if they retain them they will be fine
Perhaps they've moved past the point that you see them at, i.e funding elite sport as it has been this century as FTA runs out of financial steam.


'Foxtel boss Patrick Delany is expected to unveil a third streaming service based on news as soon as this week as the pay TV company prepares to present its strategy to current and potential investors in October, reports SMH’s Zoe Samios.
The News Corp-controlled Foxtel remains in talks with local media organisations including national broadcaster the ABC about being part of the platform, which will officially launch mid-October with access to videos and live footage from at least 15 different news outlets. The service, expected to be branded ‘Flash’ is expected to cost about $10 a month. Foxtel declined to comment.
Flash’s live news channels will include CNN, CNBC, BBC and Fox News as well as local players including News Corp’s Sky News. It will run similarly to Kayo Sports, which hosts live-streaming channels as well as small-clips of particular programs or events. But the plans, according to Foxtel sources, are to extend the content to other local news players. The service is currently led by former news.com.au editor-in-chief Kate De Brito.'
 

Seedsfan

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Perhaps they've moved past the point that you see them at, i.e funding elite sport as it has been this century as FTA runs out of financial steam.


'Foxtel boss Patrick Delany is expected to unveil a third streaming service based on news as soon as this week as the pay TV company prepares to present its strategy to current and potential investors in October, reports SMH’s Zoe Samios.
The News Corp-controlled Foxtel remains in talks with local media organisations including national broadcaster the ABC about being part of the platform, which will officially launch mid-October with access to videos and live footage from at least 15 different news outlets. The service, expected to be branded ‘Flash’ is expected to cost about $10 a month. Foxtel declined to comment.
Flash’s live news channels will include CNN, CNBC, BBC and Fox News as well as local players including News Corp’s Sky News. It will run similarly to Kayo Sports, which hosts live-streaming channels as well as small-clips of particular programs or events. But the plans, according to Foxtel sources, are to extend the content to other local news players. The service is currently led by former news.com.au editor-in-chief Kate De Brito.'
Seeing Kayo is where most of their subscribers are what happens to that if they lose the three big sports? It becomes a second rate service charging a premium price tag

While they are shifting towards being a streaming platform they still have all the expense of their previous business model
 

JohnZ

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Seeing Kayo is where most of their subscribers are what happens to that if they lose the three big sports? It becomes a second rate service charging a premium price tag

While they are shifting towards being a streaming platform they still have all the expense of their previous business model
Kayo needs Cricket, AFL and NRL exclusivity. It guarantees a large year round subscriber base. NBA and NFL help that too. Anything else is just filler content to make it appear better value than it actually is.
 

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The_Wookie

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Kayo needs Cricket, AFL and NRL exclusivity. It guarantees a large year round subscriber base. NBA and NFL help that too. Anything else is just filler content to make it appear better value than it actually is.
Cricket
AFL
NRL

Supercars rates pretty well across the year. Moto GP is going to Fox exclusively and they already have the F1s.
They've just taken Netball from Nine, and have the NBL in conjunction with Ten.

Most of their other sport is through ESPN and beIN channels (which you can also get through Fetch TV)
 

The_Wookie

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Seeing Kayo is where most of their subscribers are what happens to that if they lose the three big sports? It becomes a second rate service charging a premium price tag
kayo itself only accounts for 1/4 of their subscribers. Sports streamers would include some on the Foxtel Now package as well.

News posted 09:00am on Fri Aug 6, 2021
Key Foxtel Group Subscriber Metrics
  • Total Foxtel Group subscribers reached 4.019 million (3.891 million paid), a record high, up 40% on the prior year.

  • Total streaming subscribers, including Kayo Sports, BINGE and Foxtel Now reached 2.134 million (2.006 million paid), up 142%.

  • Streaming subscribers represent 53% of the Foxtel Group’s total subscribers.

  • Kayo reached 1.079 million subscribers (1.054 million paid), up 132%.

  • BINGE, launched in May 2020, reached 827,000 subscribers (733,000 paid).

  • Foxtel Now reached 228,000 subscribers (219,000 paid), down 32%.

  • Foxtel residential and commercial broadcast subscribers were 1.885 million, down 5.2%.

  • Foxtel Residential subscribers declined to less than 1.7 million.
 

Kwality

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Seeing Kayo is where most of their subscribers are what happens to that if they lose the three big sports? It becomes a second rate service charging a premium price tag

While they are shifting towards being a streaming platform they still have all the expense of their previous business model
Streaming services booming as Australians sign up to digital entertainment: Deloitte
Four out of five Australian households now have at least one paid digital entertainment subscription, and most have more than two, according to Deloitte’s annual media consumer survey.
The report, which relied on responses from more than 2000 people across the country, found the average Australian household has 2.3 TV/movie streaming subscriptions, with younger people the heaviest consumers.
 

Seedsfan

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kayo itself only accounts for 1/4 of their subscribers. Sports streamers would include some on the Foxtel Now package as well.

News posted 09:00am on Fri Aug 6, 2021
Key Foxtel Group Subscriber Metrics
  • Total Foxtel Group subscribers reached 4.019 million (3.891 million paid), a record high, up 40% on the prior year.

  • Total streaming subscribers, including Kayo Sports, BINGE and Foxtel Now reached 2.134 million (2.006 million paid), up 142%.

  • Streaming subscribers represent 53% of the Foxtel Group’s total subscribers.

  • Kayo reached 1.079 million subscribers (1.054 million paid), up 132%.

  • BINGE, launched in May 2020, reached 827,000 subscribers (733,000 paid).

  • Foxtel Now reached 228,000 subscribers (219,000 paid), down 32%.

  • Foxtel residential and commercial broadcast subscribers were 1.885 million, down 5.2%.

  • Foxtel Residential subscribers declined to less than 1.7 million.
Yet it is half of their streaming numbers long term they are still facing a battle retaining their key sports is still going to be make or break
 

JohnZ

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Yet it is half of their streaming numbers long term they are still facing a battle retaining their key sports is still going to be make or break
I like watching the NHL, but I'm not paying for Kayo if the AFL and Cricket are on another streaming platform. Kayo really needs to get the EPL.
 

Seedsfan

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I like watching the NHL, but I'm not paying for Kayo if the AFL and Cricket are on another streaming platform. Kayo really needs to get the EPL.
If Kayo loses the main sports it will have to become a binge ad on and not a stand alone service
 

NoobPie

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I like watching the NHL, but I'm not paying for Kayo if the AFL and Cricket are on another streaming platform. Kayo really needs to get the EPL.

It would be quite funny if fox sports won back the EPL rights....probably unlikely though
 

BringBackTorps

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For the first time AFAIK, the NRL is publicly stating that Brisbane 2 (which is very likely to be approved, to commence in 2023 or 2024) will create 12 extra H & A games pa.
It has been estimated by Gemba that these 12 extra games will be worth c. $13m pa extra Rights' $ for the NRL, if all 12 are shown exclusively on Foxtel; or $25m pa extra, if all 12 are simulcast on Foxtel & Nine (based on current Rights' deal).


"Nine Network boss warns of the NRL of perils of splitting the broadcast Rights

Nine Network boss Mike Sneesby has fired a shot across the bow of the NRL, warning them that they risk diluting the value of their broadcast rights if they sell the State of Origin series and premiership matches as separate entities.
The Australian on Tuesday revealed that the Seven Network was eyeing off the jewel in rugby league’s crown, State of Origin. Seven are also said to be interested in securing rights to at least one premiership match per round while the Ten Network have been linked with grabbing a slice of the NRL pie.

The NRL has been locked in negotiations with Nine over an extension to their existing deal and Sneesby warned the game’s powerbrokers they would be taking a financial risk by splitting the rights for Origin and premiership games among two or more networks.

“I’m not going to go into details around where we’re up to with a commercial negotiation with the NRL,” Sneesby said.
“Suffice to say from a broad perspective – and this applies with anything that we’re looking at in sport – if rights are split with a major sport like the NRL, the value of those rights gets diluted.
“If you look at our media platforms, our total television business, and our ability to really get behind the long-term growth of a sport, and the plans that (ARL Commission chair) Peter V’landys and (NRL chief executive) Andrew Abdo have for the NRL, we are the best-placed media business to be able to help support the growth and the future of the game, in partnership with the NRL.

Sneesby declined to buy into speculation that the NRL was unhappy over the amount of promotion Nine gave to rugby union – shown on their streaming service Stan – during this year’s Australian Open tennis.
“I’m not going to go into responding to things that have either been speculated or quoted in the media,” he said.

Origin is a sure-fire ratings winner, consistently among the most watched shows on Australian television every year.
Nine would be loath to lose it and it shapes as a key plank in broadcasting talks as pressure mounts on V’landys and Abdo to deliver a bumper new deal for the code given they are intent on expanding to 17 teams, potentially as early as 2023.

Whether that happens will largely depend on the ability of V’landys and Abdo to extract additional money from the broadcasters. The likelihood is that talks with free-to-air partners may not be complete until later in the year, meaning the ARL Commission will largely be reliant on Foxtel to come to the party.
It has been reported previously that the commission had a clause built into their deal with Foxtel that catered for fresh talks should the game move to 17 teams.
There is a view that Foxtel and Kayo numbers in Queensland in particular would benefit from an additional team, but the question will be how much additional money they are willing to pay to cover the fresh expense of another side.

The Gemba Group report, commissioned by the clubs to review the implications of a 17th team, found that a new team would generate 2.6 million extra viewers if all 12 additional matches were broadcasted via Foxtel and 9.3 million if they were broadcast via Foxtel and a free-to-air provider.
Based on the current broadcasting deal, that would lead to a $13 million increase if the 12 additional matches were on Foxtel and $25 million if they were simulcast. Even that may not be enough to appease the existing clubs, who have suggested expansion needs to be worth as much as $40 million a season for them to jump on board.

It means V’landys and Abdo are under extreme pressure to maximise their broadcasting revenue if they are to succeed with their expansion plans".

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...s/news-story/7d97641fecef194e889c3446446d7839


A Tas. 19th team creates 11 extra H& A games pa ie 198-209 games pa (& perhaps a Final 9 or Final 10, & more lucrative Finals' matches; & season is more "interesting" for more fans, for longer, more clubs can make Finals= Higher Ratings & crowds, more MSM coverage etc.).

I have always assumed the Tasmanian 19th team would play its 11 home games pa during the day, either Sat. or Sunday- so people could easily travel to games, by a car trip up to c. 2 hours (between Hobart & Launceston) in daylight: much safer.
I also assumed, therefore, there would be 1 less game at Docklands during the day on weekends so no overlapping of game slots; & these 11 DS weekend daytime slots would be transferred to create 11 extra Thurs. evening DS games.

What would 11 extra Thurs. evening games (very lucrative Prime Time!) be worth to the AFL, in additional Rights' $ pa?

It should be noted that the NRL Rights' $ were cut c. 25% from 27.5.22- to c. $270m pa ($360m -25%, but the NRL refuse to disclose the level of the cuts & quantum); the AFL Rights for 2023-2024, however, are at a record $473m pa. More upside, theref.ore, for the AFL
 
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Kwality

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Yet it is half of their streaming numbers long term they are still facing a battle retaining their key sports is still going to be make or break
& if Foxtel were not there, what happens to the sports that have grown rich on that money?
Where would the dollars paid for the media rights be?

Lots of idle claims of Amazon etc, the streaming services aka the $10 per month model.

There are already questions being asked over that model/market:
“We are well and truly in the age of the entertainment subscription – but how many can we have before both the experience and our budget break?”
 

Seedsfan

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& if Foxtel were not there, what happens to the sports that have grown rich on that money?
Where would the dollars paid for the media rights be?

Lots of idle claims of Amazon etc, the streaming services aka the $10 per month model.

There are already questions being asked over that model/market:
“We are well and truly in the age of the entertainment subscription – but how many can we have before both the experience and our budget break?”
Let’s use stan sports as an example

If they sign the AFL they put their prices up and people will pay it. At the moment it is a $10 a month add on because if you don’t like rugby it’s pretty sh*t. But if they get premium content they will charge a premium price
 

Billy ray

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Hell no
19 teams - and the bye each week - would allow Thursday night football each round as the team coming off the bye and a team from friday night game the week before could be scheduled to play the following Thursday - very valuable.
so rather than being a negative like in the past, an odd number of teams, and the weekly bye, should be viewed as a positive.
and, they need to ensure that the wooden spooner gets the bye in round 23 (as very unlikely they would make finals so finishing their season a week earlier in round 22 wouldbe good to ensure no finals team has a bye before the finals start)
and second last team from season before should have the bye in round 1.
 

The_Wookie

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Player quality discussion has been moved.
 

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