Play Nice The NM Devil's Chessboard Thread - Part II

[giantroo]

 

[Chadwiko]

Damn, I can't believe that Russia's Ambassador to South Korea was gullible enough to fall for Ukraine's propaganda about North Korean troops being dragooned by Russia!

How embarrassing for him!

 

[Del191229]

 

[Chadwiko]

Looks like Zinovyev's response to South Korea was prompted by this today from the South Korean government;

(LEAD) S. Korea urges 'immediate' withdrawal of N. Korean troops from Russia | Yonhap News Agency

(ATTN: CHANGES headline, lead; UPDATES story throughout with more details; REPLACES photos...

m-en.yna.co.kr

 

[Chadwiko]

This Op-Ed from The Guardian today is really good, and paints an ugly and accurate picture for why any claims that this war is going "good" for Russia are nonsense;

The Guardian view on North Koreans in Ukraine: a Russian war is using foreign labour | Editorial

Editorial: Moscow is relying on soldiers and workers enlisted from abroad to keep its war going

www.theguardian.com

 

[Del191229]

I saw this tweet running around for a few days and didn't pay it much attention.

But lordy the references and receipts he brings are fascinating.

I haven't been to Israel so can't judge, but the stuff about Americans who move to Israel is pretty telling.

At the same time, this kind of stuff is hardly limited to Israel.

 

[Del191229]

This Op-Ed from The Guardian today is really good, and paints an ugly and accurate picture for why any claims that this war is going "good" for Russia are nonsense;

View attachment 2148951

The Guardian view on North Koreans in Ukraine: a Russian war is using foreign labour | Editorial

Editorial: Moscow is relying on soldiers and workers enlisted from abroad to keep its war going

www.theguardian.com

Odd it doesn't mention any actual realities from the battlefield, and just regurgitates the same unsourced crap from "intelligence agencies".

No mention of Adveevka, Pokrovsk, of the ongoing disaster that is the Kurks salient.

Believing ... and I use the word very deliberately ... that the war is not going exceptionally badly for Ukraine requires huge leaps of faith.

I honestly don't get why you're still so emotionally invested in it to still be sooooo gung ho for each and every bit of bullshit that gets pushed out.

 

[Chadwiko]

Odd it doesn't mention any actual realities from the battlefield, and just regurgitates the same unsourced crap from "intelligence agencies".

Given that just a few days ago you dismissed the story of North Korean troops being deployed to Russia/Ukraine as "bullshit" Ukrainian intelligence, maybe take a break for a few days from attacking them? Just a friendly tip.

Believing ... and I use the word very deliberately ... that the war is not going exceptionally badly for Ukraine requires huge leaps of faith.

I've never said the war is going good for Ukraine. They got invaded and have had multiple cities levelled by a far larger and more aggressive neighbour. Of course things are going badly for Ukraine.

The difference between you and me is I don't try and suggest that the war is going good for Russia, declaring victory every few weeks and whatnot.

I honestly don't get why you're still so emotionally invested in it to still be sooooo gung ho for each and every bit of bullshit that gets pushed out.

This is the international conflict thread. I post about Ukraine because it's a hugely relevant and current international conflict, and the only current international conflict that Australia is actively supporting in terms of sending military equipment and supplies.

I also post about Israel/Gaza frequently too - scroll up and you'll see I posted about Beirut airstrikes earlier.

 

[ferball]

She's speaking more for me than she is for you. What with her being a Victorian Senator and me living in Victoria. Hell, I voted for her.

If it's not my place to say she's the wrong messenger, then it's not your place to say she's the right one, either.

So you're not referring to her asking Charles to return indigenous land, just to the fact that a senator should treat the King with respect? ...

Whatever dude. It's patently obvious you're not arguing in good faith. I said basically the same thing as Sphynx and you attacked me, but treated him with respect.

... if you're just referring to her not doing the appropriate thing for a senator then I apologise.

 

[ferball]

I agree with it too, in most respects.

However, she's only invited to that ceremony in her capacity as a Senator of Australia.

If she wants to make that comment, do it elsewhere and preferably deliver it differently.

Totally inappropriate.

Like I said that's your right.

But afaic its completely appropriate.

Its a disgrace that we live in a society where someone is considered "king". You might believe in the god of the CofE that granted that useless old campaigner the divine right to rule over everyone... I don't. Its an anachronism from a barbaric time in human history.

As far as she goes - indigenous people will rarely if ever get the opportunity to express that sentiment to King or Queen of Australia but a shitload of them feel that way and would be glad she took the chance to do so. Its probably the only way that would ever happen for some of the people she (officially, as senator) represents.

 

[Chadwiko]

So you're not referring to her asking Charles to return indigenous land, just to the fact that a senator should treat the King with respect? ...


... if you're just referring to her not doing the appropriate thing for a senator then I apologise.

I literally said "It's the right message, delivered in a less-than-perfect way, by the absolutely wrong messenger."

 

[Chadwiko]

As far as she goes - indigenous people will rarely if ever get the opportunity to express that sentiment to King or Queen of Australia but a shitload of them feel that way and would be glad she took the chance to do so. Its probably the only way that would ever happen for some of the people she (officially, as senator) represents.

You know what would have been a great way for Australia's head of state to receive such a message?

From an Indigenous Voice to Parliament.

Shame that Lidia Thorpe campaigned against it and provided racists with juuuuust enough cover to vote against it.


(and to be clear, i'm not placing the blame entirely on her or anything. just observing that it was yet another in a long pattern of shitty decisions by Thorpe that only serve her personal interests)

 

[ferball]

I literally said "It's the right message, delivered in a less-than-perfect way, by the absolutely wrong messenger."

And I took that to mean you objected to her taking that opportunity to say "Give us our land back." (ie the wrong messenger bit.) If I was wrong about that and went off half cocked I'm sorry.

 

[Dan]

Other than parade marching....are North Korean military/army competent?

 

[Dan]

You can hate communist countries but they sure know how to make decent propaganda beats

 

[Sphynx]

Odd it doesn't mention any actual realities from the battlefield, and just regurgitates the same unsourced crap from "intelligence agencies".

No mention of Adveevka, Pokrovsk, of the ongoing disaster that is the Kurks salient.

Believing ... and I use the word very deliberately ... that the war is not going exceptionally badly for Ukraine requires huge leaps of faith.

I honestly don't get why you're still so emotionally invested in it to still be sooooo gung ho for each and every bit of bullshit that gets pushed out.

It’s going exceptionally bad for both of them.

Ukraine are in a stalemate without front line assistance, which Putin may have just provided a light in the tunnel via way of North Koreas involvement.

Russia - well their economy is absolutely cooked. Interest rates at 20%, ever growing inflation, half their sovereign wealth fund gone. If the war continues for another year they will be destitute..probably why the desperation via way of North Korean conscripts.

Neither of them can really afford for it to keep going long term and Putin stealing tons of gold and diamonds out of West Africa via Wagner was only going to prop them up for so long.

 

[the big lebowski]

I've spent over 30 years hearing white people do this shit. Its rude and ****en annoying. You can say what you like about your personal opinion on Thorpe. I couldn't care less.

Why is she the wrong person to say "Give us back our land!"? Are you that clueless that you think you can make that judgement.

Sorry who does Lydia Thorpe represent? All indigenous people in Australia? All indigenous people in her electorate?

Seems it was just a year ago when she was vehemently against the voice despite around 60-70% indigenous support.

Did she liase with other aboriginal senators, other parties, etc before she launched an international headline grabbing bit of grandstanding.

Breaking every rule of normal common decency as a human being

 

[the big lebowski]

Seems escalatory from Russia and brings the world closer to nuclear war.

If they had things under control it would be odd to bring in so many NK soldiers.

It certainly a provocation towards SK. It’s essentially a statement that in the event of hostilities between north and south, boots on the ground support can be expected for the north from Russia.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Del191229]

Given that just a few days ago you dismissed the story of North Korean troops being deployed to Russia/Ukraine as "bullshit" Ukrainian intelligence, maybe take a break for a few days from attacking them? Just a friendly tip.

No, I've said repeatedly I think there's some there as advisors, just not masses being sent for combat duties. And there is still no evidence that's happening.

The Russians have 300k people in Ukraine and are not running short of men.

I've never said the war is going good for Ukraine. They got invaded and have had multiple cities levelled by a far larger and more aggressive neighbour. Of course things are going badly for Ukraine.

The war HAS gone well for Ukraine plenty of times. They defended Hostomel very well.

Their late summer 2022 counter offensive was brilliant and they had the Russians retreating and on the back foot.

If they'd gone for a ceasefire after the Russian retreat from Kherson things might be different.

The difference between you and me is I don't try and suggest that the war is going good for Russia, declaring victory every few weeks and whatnot.

Yes, you just ignore realities like Ukraine losing places like Adviivka both sides spent two years fighting tooth and nail over.

This is the international conflict thread. I post about Ukraine because it's a hugely relevant and current international conflict, and the only current international conflict that Australia is actively supporting in terms of sending military equipment and supplies.

It's more the gung ho posting, not even the Ukrainians think like this any more.

I also post about Israel/Gaza frequently too - scroll up and you'll see I posted about Beirut airstrikes earlier.

Yep, sure

 

[Del191229]

It’s going exceptionally bad for both of them.

Ukraine are in a stalemate without front line assistance, which Putin may have just provided a light in the tunnel via way of North Koreas involvement.

Russia - well their economy is absolutely cooked. Interest rates at 20%, ever growing inflation, half their sovereign wealth fund gone. If the war continues for another year they will be destitute..probably why the desperation via way of North Korean conscripts.

Neither of them can really afford for it to keep going long term and Putin stealing tons of gold and diamonds out of West Africa via Wagner was only going to prop them up for so long.

But Ukraine aren't in a front line stalemate, they're being pushed back methodically through Donbass. I mean, this is simple fact.

They also gambled their best units on the Kursk adventure and that's now being rolled up.

Acknowledging reality does not make one a supporter of a siloviki scumbag like Putin

They are running a hot war time economy sure, but it's in substantially better shape than Ukraine's.

And any peace deal will involve the lifting of sanctions and restoration of gas supply etc, their economy will recover.

 

[Del191229]

These things flying unmolested in broad daylight is demonstration of how badly it's going foe Ukraine.

They used to fly at night and the Ukrainians would have a good record of shooting them down.

 

[Chadwiko]

cc ferball

A Ngunnawal elder has rebuked Lidia Thorpe over her confrontation with King Charles, saying the Victorian senator doesn’t speak for her people and that her comments of “**** the colony” were “disrespectful”.

“Lidia Thorpe does not speak for me and my people, and I’m sure she doesn’t speak for a lot of First Nations people. It was disrespectful to come there and go on like that, there’s a time and place.”

The grandmother acknowledged the pain and suffering brought by colonisation and the legacies still being felt but she said coming together as a nation would “bring healing”.

Indigenous elder scolds Lidia Thorpe for yelling ‘disrespectful’ comments at King Charles

Aunty Violet Sheridan says the Victorian senator ‘does not speak for me and my people’ and called yelling of ‘**** the colony’ inappropriate

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chadwiko]

They used to fly at night and the Ukrainians would have a good record of shooting them down.

Still do. There's daily footage that goes online of the Shaheeds getting shot down. Here's one from the last 8~ hours, just by way of example;

 

[Chadwiko]

By the way, it's quite telling that you have to post tweets from hardcore facist twitter accounts to find pro-Russian war content. Not the first time you've posted that dude, either.

Pretty gross stuff, tbh.