Play Nice The NM Devils Chessboard thread.

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Kangaroos4eva

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The only reason they can’t is because they haven’t been as brutal as they could be. If they didn’t care about what people thought, which would happen in all out war, then they wouldn’t be as careful or worried about civilians.
The biggest thing in that regard is how long the general public is willing to tolerate the conflict. Compare the resilience of the Taliban to the western nations. Culturally, we just don’t accept lengthy wars with long casualty lists. We lost the stomach for it, or tolerance, generally speaking. Even most republicans on Twitter have no stomach for a lengthy intervention.


The rules of engagement and standards are far more stricter for western forces, but they have still killed plenty of civilians. Not as much as many of their enemies though.
 

travelli

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Different type of war. In spite of Russia and china’s advanced capabilities, the USA would still likely blitz them in a conventional fight. The following occupation and insurgency is where the us military falls down.
I don't know. Take Ukraine, that place is stacked with Russians already, if they make a play, it will be very complex within the country. More like civil war than an invasion. Could be closer to a Vietnam situation than a direct conflict between Russia and USA.
 

Kangaroos4eva

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I don't know. Take Ukraine, that place is stacked with Russians already, if they make a play, it will be very complex within the country. More like civil war than an invasion. Could be closer to a Vietnam situation than a direct conflict between Russia and USA.
We are all just guessing until things develop I think. We don’t know the true scale of USA support as of yet and how far Russia is willing to go. Most of eastern Ukraine is Russian-speaking, but, are heavily reliant on Moscow’s backing. The Russians are going to have to put some skin in the game and commit in an insurgency or wider war. Looking at the 2008 Georgia war and the Chechen conflicts, the Russians aren’t not afraid to assert their claims.
 

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Val Keating

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Most Ukrainians hate Russia because of the holodomor genocide that killed almost 4,000,000 Ukrainians. Doesn’t matter if they speak the same language.
 

Kangaroos4eva

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Most Ukrainians hate Russia because of the holodomor genocide that killed almost 4,000,000 Ukrainians. Doesn’t matter if they speak the same language.
Yes, but a decent proportion of the Russian speaking elements are ethnically Russian. About 8.5 million in 2001. Crap situation all round. The Nazi’s definitely lost a golden opportunity for far greater Ukrainian collaboration by acting like nazis, lol, during the war following the famine.
 
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Kangaroos4eva

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The curious case of Germany and Russia. A lot of German infrastructure and Russian energy.

 

Val Keating

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The curious case of Germany and Russia. A lot of German infrastructure and Russian energy.



I wonder how much that has to do with the leverage against them with the refugees wanting to get from the Middle East stuck in Belarus to Germany…
 

ferball

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The biggest thing in that regard is how long the general public is willing to tolerate the conflict. Compare the resilience of the Taliban to the western nations. Culturally, we just don’t accept lengthy wars with long casualty lists. We lost the stomach for it, or tolerance, generally speaking. Even most republicans on Twitter have no stomach for a lengthy intervention.


The rules of engagement and standards are far more stricter for western forces, but they have still killed plenty of civilians. Not as much as many of their enemies though.
If it was a real war against a real enemy we'd cop it. Even anti war types would put up with it grudgingly. Most of the wars we fight for the US are bullshit tho. Everyone knows that. US, them, the rest of the world - everyone.

There might have even been an argument that Afghanistan was initially legit.... 20 years ago .... but not after they went to Iraq and ducked that, and everything since, up.

I can see the US getting involved simply cos it might wedge the right. Anti-war libertarians (Lew Rockwell types) and hawks both influence the US right.
 

ferball

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Is this the White House warning Americans to leave Ukraine in the next 48 hrs?
 

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Val Keating

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An inevitable consequence of the demise of the Soviet Union and nations choosing between the traditional way (Moscow) and the new way (NATO/West).

They can’t keep saying they’re not going to attack and then attack. I know that seems pretty naive but most of the shit stopping the legit powers attacking each other is based on good faith.

It’s going to set us back years. It’s a weird game they’re playing. They’re banking on the west not jumping in because of mutually assured destruction, and they’re most likely right but jeez it’s still a gamble.

It’s like Ukrainian doesn’t even factor in. Russia is flexing because they don’t want them to join NATO and they’re pretty much just negotiating with the west. They’ve got almost double our population and they’re not even in control of what they can do with their country.

Feel like it’s a bit of a tester on what would happen if China annexed Taiwan.
 

Val Keating

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Does anyone else see the funny side of the commentary that Russia is going to attack Ukraine….but only after the Olympics finishes?

Imagine Vlad saying “WE WILL CRUSH THEM. WE MUST SHOW OUR STRENGTH AND SLAUGHTER OUR ENEMIES!!!….. But not yet, first I want to see who takes out the woman’s arial”
 

Val Keating

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This situation with Russia has a very eerie sort of feeling. It’s like they’re playing chicken. Putin seems to be calmly building up his forces and saying at the same time it’s going to be ok, we’re not going to attack.

Not at all comforted with the fact that everything seems to be hinging on a phone call between Biden and Putin.

Russia, or really Putin needs something to back off. He would be worried about looking weak if he backs off with nothing to show for it. On the other hand the west can’t fold every time they show aggression as it’ll only encourage more acts of aggression in the future. It’s a little bit like a hostage situation.

It’s complicated further by the West pressuring Ukraine to join NATO in the first place.

Very tricky situation. Everyone needs a win but have to take a loss as well. Must be frustrating and embarrassing for Ukraine.
 

ferball

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Old man Bismarck had a few or two to say on the subject of relations with Russia and France...

This:



???
 

Kangaroos4eva

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This:



???
No, not one. More so on the nature of treaties with Russia and the need to balance relations with certain powers, like Russia, to keep France in check. For example, signing agreements with Russia and Britain so that Germany can divert its attention to France. Of course, Wilhelm ii did away with Bismarck, but the concept has never fully disappeared from German policy.

Germany generally takes its central position in Europe very seriously in that it spends a lot of effort to balance its affairs in the west and east.

 
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Val Keating

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The Ukraine president reckons the US and other countries are escalating it by pulling their people out. The western media is saying that the west have different intelligence and the Ukrainian intelligence is thought to be heavily compromised by Russia.

It’s probably true but it’s hard to believe them after all the Trump and Russia lies.
 

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