Play Nice The NM Devils Chessboard thread.

[Swallow_Wood]

So this is an article published by RIA Novosti (Russian State media outlet) over the weekend before quickly being pulled. Tells us everything we need to know about Russian intentions in Ukraine and beyond, and how it views Europe and the west as ungrateful anglo-saxons whose European project only came about thanks to the greatness of Russia in the first place.

The new world order - The Frontier Post

Petr Akopov A new world is being born before our eyes. Russia’s military operation in Ukraine has ushered in a new era – and in three dimensions at once. And of course, in the fourth, internal Russian. Here begins a new period both in ideology and in the very model of our socio-economic system – …

thefrontierpost.com

Its ****ing cuckoo land, batshit crazy hyper-nationalistic, overtly racist propaganda. This is what the Russian state is trying to peddle to its people, and what they have been exporting to the west to sow division amongst its allies. This regime needs to be brought to its knees and shot in the back of the head, and its people freed from this bullshit once and for all.

 

[Sopwiths North]

Kharkiv was hit with 2 cruise missiles, destroying Freedom Square, one of the biggest city squares in Europe. Kharkiv is a city with over 20 universities, where many Russians live peacefully alongside Ukrainians.

 

[Sopwiths North]

President Zelinsky address the European Parliament. The translator becomes pretty emotional.

"We are fighting to be equal members of Europe."









This really doesn't seem like a lot to have to ask for. Especially when you're a tiny country standing up to a goliath war machine run by a megalomaniac while the world watches you.

 

[B4Bear]

I don't mean to be an arse, but things seem emotive enough here without posting what I assume is a picture of civilian casualties. Apologies if my assumption is incorrect.

The his is the face of the war crimes, sophistry, justification and the moral low ground.

Why shouldn’t it be posted? People are talking in the abstract and ignoring the real world consequences.

If looking on the face of a murdered child makes you uncomfortable, imagine if someone posted a picture of her actual body?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

The his is the face of the war crimes, sophistry, justification and the moral low ground.

Why shouldn’t it be posted? People are talking in the abstract and ignoring the real world consequences.

If looking on the face of a murdered child makes you uncomfortable, imagine if someone posted a picture of her actual body?

It was a terrible choice of photo. It reinforces the comments of Ukrainian officials:
"It’s very emotional for me because I see European people with blue eyes and blonde hair being killed, children being killed every day by Putin’s missiles, helicopters and rockets."
Photographed in her middle class home, reinforcing the constant news coverage that this war is special because:
"What's compelling is that these are prosperous, middle-class people. These are not refugees trying to get away from the Middle East or North Africa. They look like any European family that you'd live next door to."

We know that many children have died in this conflict, and many more will. But they are no more special than the children that die in conflicts around the world. Find me some candid, smiling photos of the Rohinga boys and young men that were killed in Myanmar recently.

 

[B4Bear]

It was a terrible choice of photo. It reinforces the comments of Ukrainian officials:
"It’s very emotional for me because I see European people with blue eyes and blonde hair being killed, children being killed every day by Putin’s missiles, helicopters and rockets."
Photographed in her middle class home, reinforcing the constant news coverage that this war is special because:
"What's compelling is that these are prosperous, middle-class people. These are not refugees trying to get away from the Middle East or North Africa. They look like any European family that you'd live next door to."

We know that many children have died in this conflict, and many more will. But they are no more special than the children that die in conflicts around the world. Find me some candid, smiling photos of the Rohinga boys and young men that were killed in Myanmar recently.

By your logic, people can do anything, because someone is doing worse somewhere else.

A Ukrainian person describes the majority of people from his country as being murdered, and this is a bad thing?

I will never understand how these deaths can be minimised down to the colour of their skin, never.

This official is humanising the deaths to the actual people that are helping them, other Europeans. I don't see many African or Asian nations sending assistance. He is forcing them to look inwards and identify with the murdered, to engender pity and compassion. Please explain to me how this is a bad thing?

It is the perfect photograph to show what is happening there, in this time, in that place. You treat this like it is some abstract political class where you get to sit around and debate the merits of actions without consequences.

If you decide that race and skin colour are determining factors on what your response is to be; does that mean that is the starting point for every action? There are millions of wrongs in the world, and to dismiss this as not worthy because of their skin colour is just as bad as deciding to kill her because of her skin colour.

 

[Val Keating]

I’d love to know if the Russian people are falling for the lies coming out of the Kremlin. Does the Russian government have as much control over information as the CCP?

 

[B4Bear]

I’d love to know if the Russian people are falling for the lies coming out of the Kremlin. Does the Russian government have as much control over information as the CCP?

Not as much, but it is pretty restrictive I gather. The protests tell us that some information is not being censored.

 

[Val Keating]

Not as much, but it is pretty restrictive I gather. The protests tell us that some information is not being censored.

Yeah I think anyone with a vpn would know what’s really going on and wouldn’t be falling for this “special operation to stop Nazis from committing genocide”.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

By your logic, people can do anything, because someone is doing worse somewhere else.

A Ukrainian person describes the majority of people from his country as being murdered, and this is a bad thing?

I will never understand how these deaths can be minimised down to the colour of their skin, never.

This official is humanising the deaths to the actual people that are helping them, other Europeans. I don't see many African or Asian nations sending assistance. He is forcing them to look inwards and identify with the murdered, to engender pity and compassion. Please explain to me how this is a bad thing?

It is the perfect photograph to show what is happening there, in this time, in that place. You treat this like it is some abstract political class where you get to sit around and debate the merits of actions without consequences.

If you decide that race and skin colour are determining factors on what your response is to be; does that mean that is the starting point for every action? There are millions of wrongs in the world, and to dismiss this as not worthy because of their skin colour is just as bad as deciding to kill her because of her skin colour.

Japan, South Korea and Taiwan have all joined in imposing sanctions on Russia. Pro-Ukrainian protests have been seen in all three countries. South Africa and Kenya have both condemned the invasion, which has been seen as a surprise as they have close economic ties with Russia. No African country has come out in support of Russia, which has also been seen as a surprise as some smaller African nations are heavily reliant on Russian support.

I did not minimise these deaths based on the colour of their skin. The Ukrainian official did that when he chose to describe them not simply as "people" or "civilians" or "my fellow citizens", but as "blonde and blue eyed". It is the Ukrainians and the media in general that have determined that race and skin colour are determining factors of the response.

It is a bad thing that in the 21st century we need to be told that people look like us in order to identify with them and engender pity and compassion. We should feel that based on a common humanity. This is not the 18th century where Europeans could imagine that people who looked different to them may not even be fully human.

My point is that this is no more or less a tragedy than the death of civilians including children everywhere. At no point did I dismiss the wrongs of this situation as unworthy. But when you say these wrongs are more worthy because they occur in a relatively modern European nation, with people that look just like us, you are saying that deaths in the global south are less worthy.

 

[Val Keating]

Apparently there was a mass walkout when the Russian diplomat went to speak at the un council meeting via zoom. I haven’t seen video of it but just listening to the BBC world news.

 

[Val Keating]

Japan, South Korea and Taiwan have all joined in imposing sanctions on Russia. Pro-Ukrainian protests have been seen in all three countries. South Africa and Kenya have both condemned the invasion, which has been seen as a surprise as they have close economic ties with Russia. No African country has come out in support of Russia, which has also been seen as a surprise as some smaller African nations are heavily reliant on Russian support.

I did not minimise these deaths based on the colour of their skin. The Ukrainian official did that when he chose to describe them not simply as "people" or "civilians" or "my fellow citizens", but as "blonde and blue eyed". It is the Ukrainians and the media in general that have determined that race and skin colour are determining factors of the response.

It is a bad thing that in the 21st century we need to be told that people look like us in order to identify with them and engender pity and compassion. We should feel that based on a common humanity. This is not the 18th century where Europeans could imagine that people who looked different to them may not even be fully human.

My point is that this is no more or less a tragedy than the death of civilians including children everywhere. At no point did I dismiss the wrongs of this situation as unworthy. But when you say these wrongs are more worthy because they occur in a relatively modern European nation, with people that look just like us, you are saying that deaths in the global south are less worthy.

That is true but it’s starting to come across as whataboutisim a lot online. People were and are outraged over what Israel has done to Palestine. Hopefully with people power (sorry cringe term) being at its highest point in history due to the internet, things will start to change as people realise that their voices actually matter when they protest in the streets. I have zero doubt that the main reason this is being so wildly condemned by officials is because of the citizens hitting the streets.

 

[B4Bear]

My point is that this is no more or less a tragedy than the death of civilians including children everywhere. At no point did I dismiss the wrongs of this situation as unworthy. But when you say these wrongs are more worthy because they occur in a relatively modern European nation, with people that look just like us, you are saying that deaths in the global south are less worthy.

I am not saying that at all. But I am saying that people identify with likeness. Just a basic fact of human nature. Skin and eye and hair colour being one factor. A child living in an urban area like Kyiv is identifiable if you are an adult in Tokyo, a herdsman in Yemen, not so much.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

That is true but it’s starting to come across as whataboutisim a lot online. People were and are outraged over what Israel has done to Palestine. Hopefully with people power (sorry cringe term) being at its highest point in history due to the internet, things will start to change as people realise that their voices actually matter when they protest in the streets. I have zero doubt that the main reason this is being so wildly condemned by officials is because of the citizens hitting the streets.

You're more optimistic than me VK. It will be interesting to see if the Sydney Opera House gets lit up in the Palestinian tricolour the next time a hospital or apartment block is bombed in Palestine. Let alone a raft of sanctions being imposed upon Israel.

People around the world weep when Notre Dame burns, but it's of passing interest when the Taliban destroys monumental Buddhist art 1000 years older. Australia can find $70M for "lethal aid" to Ukraine in a matter of days, but it's a protracted debate about whether we should cut military co-operation with the Myanamar junta in the wake of an attempted genocide, until it all blows over and the government does not have to take any action at all.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with supporting the Ukrainians. I don't think our hypocrisy means we shouldn't do what is right in this instance. But I am offended when people say this case is special because they are "blonde", "blue-eyed", "middle-class", or look just like us.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

I am not saying that at all. But I am saying that people identify with likeness. Just a basic fact of human nature. Skin and eye and hair colour being one factor. A child living in an urban area like Kyiv is identifiable if you are an adult in Tokyo, a herdsman in Yemen, not so much.

It was meant as more of the general "you", people generally.

I simply do no accept that as a basic fact of human nature. People accepted slavery as a basic fact of human nature. People believed that homosexuality was unnatural, and therefore revulsion and homophobia was also a basic fact of human nature.

We live in a globalised world. We should be able to identify with all people, regardless of their skin colour or cultural circumstances. I honestly do not believe it is an unreasonable expectation and I refuse to lower that expectation of others. That "basic fact of human nature" is nothing more than cultural conditioning and we should actively seek to change it.

 

[B4Bear]

It was meant as more of the general "you", people generally.

I simply do no accept that as a basic fact of human nature. People accepted slavery as a basic fact of human nature. People believed that homosexuality was unnatural, and therefore revulsion and homophobia was also a basic fact of human nature.

We live in a globalised world. We should be able to identify with all people, regardless of their skin colour or cultural circumstances. I honestly do not believe it is an unreasonable expectation and I refuse to lower that expectation of others. That "basic fact of human nature" is nothing more than cultural conditioning and we should actively seek to change it.

100% agree. But it can not and should not be used to minimise what is actually happening in the real world, which some people are trying to do.

 

[Val Keating]

You're more optimistic than me VK. It will be interesting to see if the Sydney Opera House gets lit up in the Palestinian tricolour the next time a hospital or apartment block is bombed in Palestine. Let alone a raft of sanctions being imposed upon Israel.

People around the world weep when Notre Dame burns, but it's of passing interest when the Taliban destroys monumental Buddhist art 1000 years older. Australia can find $70M for "lethal aid" to Ukraine in a matter of days, but it's a protracted debate about whether we should cut military co-operation with the Myanamar junta in the wake of an attempted genocide, until it all blows over and the government does not have to take any action at all.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with supporting the Ukrainians. I don't think our hypocrisy means we shouldn't do what is right in this instance. But I am offended when people say this case is special because they are "blonde", "blue-eyed", "middle-class", or look just like us.

I don’t think racism plays a major role. It’s more about who the government Is allied to and Israel is part of the west or whatever term they use, and they’re very strong politically. It is harder to get people motivated by something they’ve grown up their whole lives seeing on the news, it’s a bit like the commercials about the starving children in Africa on tv when I was a kid, in a way it desensitised more then anything.

That’s kind of what I think is going on here, it’s new to a lot of people so it’s shocking. The blond hair blue eye statement is pretty gross but I guess he just meant he relates with them because it’s easier to imagine it being his family members.

I think things are shifting a bit. It started after George Floyd was murdered and people hit the streets and we’re seeing it agin now. I just hope the trend continues and doesn’t discriminate.

 

[Val Keating]

Russia sending in a huge force for what looks like it’s going to be an ugly siege now. They’re going to starve Ukraine out old school style. The question is what cost it’ll come to Russia.

 

[Val Keating]

Straight after I posted that I’m listening to Freddie Gibbs & Brian Moses talking and Moses goes, “I wasn’t alive for ww2 and I think this is the first time I’ve seen white people kill white people and it’s just different”.

 

[Swallow_Wood]

Russia sending in a huge force for what looks like it’s going to be an ugly siege now. They’re going to starve Ukraine out old school style. The question is what cost it’ll come to Russia.

Big cost.

How do they hold a country of 44 million that doesn't want them there, all the while being utterly destroyed economically? This will destroy Russian military morale as they are forced to oppress people who are just like them and are trying to kill them.

 

[ferball]

I’d love to know if the Russian people are falling for the lies coming out of the Kremlin. Does the Russian government have as much control over information as the CCP?

What makes you think the Russian people see the world the way we do?

Its not even about control of information. Why would they think the way we do about politics, geo politics and even this invasion?

 

[B4Bear]

What makes you think the Russian people see the world the way we do?

Its not even about control of information. Why would they think the way we do about politics, geo politics and even this invasion?

Slavs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Because they are all Slavic people. Russia has historically been the defenders of Slavic identity and nationalism.

Whilst the rulers may look on it differently through their power prism, the average Russian is very likely to see this as an attack against their brothers and sisters.

 

[ferball]

You're more optimistic than me VK. It will be interesting to see if the Sydney Opera House gets lit up in the Palestinian tricolour the next time a hospital or apartment block is bombed in Palestine. Let alone a raft of sanctions being imposed upon Israel.

People around the world weep when Notre Dame burns, but it's of passing interest when the Taliban destroys monumental Buddhist art 1000 years older. Australia can find $70M for "lethal aid" to Ukraine in a matter of days, but it's a protracted debate about whether we should cut military co-operation with the Myanamar junta in the wake of an attempted genocide, until it all blows over and the government does not have to take any action at all.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with supporting the Ukrainians. I don't think our hypocrisy means we shouldn't do what is right in this instance. But I am offended when people say this case is special because they are "blonde", "blue-eyed", "middle-class", or look just like us.

There is a movement for sanctions against Israel. Its called BDS. Whenever Australian politicians mention it the are pilloried from stairway to breakfast.

$70million dollars for weapons when thousands more people are homeless in NSW. People still haven't been rehoused after the fires bvefore COVID but we're sending money to someone else's war on the other side of the world while our own people go homeless. I'm not gonna bang on about it, I support anyopne who is invaded by oppressive shitheads. And obviously I'm sympathetic to the Ukrainians in this situation. If I had to pick a side to fight on I'd pick theirs.

But I don't have to pick in this, especially when afaic this situation didn't need to happen and more meddling to steal energy profits caused it and anything I say about it is just more propaganda used by another war machine that comes from the culture we identify with.

BTW I remember when the Taliban blew up those Buddhas. It was a disgrace.

 

[ferball]

Slavs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Because they are all Slavic people. Russia has historically been the defenders of Slavic identity and nationalism.

Whilst the rulers may look on it differently through their power prism, the average Russian is very likely to see this as an attack against their brothers and sisters.

How do you know that? How many Russians have you asked?

 

[B4Bear]

How do you know that? How many Russians have you asked?

I don't know any ancient Romans either but I still know things.

Full text of "On the borders of Slavic identity: the search for self-determination and comparative analysis"