Play Nice The NM Devils Chessboard thread.

[B4Bear]

There most certainly should be a line in the sand, but it must be applied equally.

That you raise the Palestinians is telling.

Turns out cultural boycotts of countries for illegal armed occupations are OK when it is nice white attractive Ukrainians in the crosshairs, but not OK when it is brown skinned Palestinians.

Until this stuff is applied equally, well, right now what is happening is just continuation of ethnic/political conflict that's been underway in that part of the world for decades imo.

And yet there are boycotts of Israel, which I support. Your trying to draw equivalence allows contemporary events to go unchallenged.

Maybe this is the event that sparks all events to be applied equally.

Your casual dismissal of the current murders achieves what?

 

[Del191229]

All over Twitter there’s Arabic people posting about it. It’s pretty annoying. Do they think they have a monopoly on suffering? Ukraine has suffered extreme hardship from Russia for over a hundred years.

Ukranians were notorious for being the most brutal of concentration camp guards for the Nazis too.

Its ****ing complex and there's no simple answers.

 

[Del191229]

And yet there are boycotts of Israel, which I support. Your trying to draw equivalence allows contemporary events to go unchallenged.

Maybe this is the event that sparks all events to be applied equally.

Your casual dismissal of the current murders achieves what?

Maybe Santa will bring me a rocket car that goes to the Moon as well.

This is quite interesting and lays out the most plausible outcome/future for the conflict.

 

[Makeshift Park]

There most certainly should be a line in the sand, but it must be applied equally.

That you raise the Palestinians is telling.

Turns out cultural boycotts of countries for illegal armed occupations are OK when it is nice white attractive Ukrainians in the crosshairs, but not OK when it is brown skinned Palestinians.

Until this stuff is applied equally, well, right now what is happening is just continuation of ethnic/political conflict that's been underway in that part of the world for decades imo.

Who exactly is all this directed at though? I haven't seen anyone here criticising the BDS movement? It seems to me that there's just a lot of people here trying to understand what's going on in Ukraine?

 

[B4Bear]

Who exactly is all this directed at though? I haven't seen anyone here criticising the BDS movement? It seems to me that there's just a lot of people here trying to understand what's going on in Ukraine?

This is like a bad first year philosophy class.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Enters the conversation by decrying how everyone's portraying Putin as a cartoon villain.
Then proceeds to spend three pages shadowboxing at imaginary strawmen.
Talk about irony.

 

[the big lebowski]

Annyyywaaayyyyy, back to Ukraine.

What do people think the overall number of foreign fighters will be that enter Ukraine to fight? I was reading 2,000 foreign fighters have fought there since 2014, mostly from Belarus and Georgia.

But obviously that number, if true, is going to be dwarfed now. The number for the Spanish civil war was apparently 50,000 in the 1930’s.

Could we see 200,000 plus foreign fighters in Ukraine?

 

[ferball]

Kill you?

Not at all, but happy to call you neo-fascist self righteousness out for what it is.

You know that Ukrainian military unit I just mentioned was a supporter of Brenton Tarrant who massacred those people in Christchurch don't you?

A black sun symbol was used by the Christchurch shooter. I see it all over Europe

The Christchurch shooter had a black sun symbol emblazoned on his rucksack. I've seen it all over Eastern Europe, and it is clear the shooter matters to far-right groups there, writes Michael Colborne.

www.abc.net.au

IntelBrief: The Transnational Network That Nobody is Talking About - The Soufan Center

In the wake of the New Zealand mosque attacks, links have emerged between the shooter, Brenton Tarrant, and a Ukrainian ultra-nationalist, white supremacist paramilitary organization called the Azov Battalion

thesoufancenter.org

Recruits from the U.S., Norway, Italy, Germany, the United Kingdom, Brazil, Sweden, and Australia, among others, have reportedly traveled to train with the Azov Battalion.

None of what I post is Russian propaganda. I check it all, I check the writers and the organisations that they work for.

People used to laugh on this site years ago when I talked about these far right networks and how dangerous they were.

 

[B4Bear]

Annyyywaaayyyyy, back to Ukraine.

What do people think the overall number of foreign fighters will be that enter Ukraine to fight? I was reading 2,000 foreign fighters have fought there since 2014, mostly from Belarus and Georgia.

But obviously that number, if true, is going to be dwarfed now. The number for the Spanish civil war was apparently 50,000 in the 1930’s.

Could we see 200,000 plus foreign fighters in Ukraine?

Yeah, this will bleed Russia white (Ha Ha). For all of the supposed experts talking about Nato and Racism and every other piece of whataboutism, this is simply a case of theft through conquest.

And there are plenty of people who will fight against that, not least the Ukrainian's and their diaspora.

It will be just like Afghanistan, everyone with a grudge will be flocking there. And in the end Ukraine will still exist, NATO will be reinvigorated and Russia will be bankrupt.

And not all the justification in the world is going to change that.

 

[Val Keating]

Whataboutism is a term invented by British intelligence to stop people actually placing IRA resistance in context and just go "Oh, bombs are bad."

You can't keep this stuff simple. There is no simple answer.

That you've mentioned the Holodomor demonstrates this - even when you're trying to keep it simple, you can't help but go back the best part of a century and the actions of a state that no longer exists.

That has relevance though because Putin is trying to put that state back together and at the moment it involves Ukraine.

 

[B4Bear]

You know that Ukrainian military unit I just mentioned was a supporter of Brenton Tarrant who massacred those people in Christchurch don't you?

A black sun symbol was used by the Christchurch shooter. I see it all over Europe

The Christchurch shooter had a black sun symbol emblazoned on his rucksack. I've seen it all over Eastern Europe, and it is clear the shooter matters to far-right groups there, writes Michael Colborne.

www.abc.net.au

IntelBrief: The Transnational Network That Nobody is Talking About - The Soufan Center

In the wake of the New Zealand mosque attacks, links have emerged between the shooter, Brenton Tarrant, and a Ukrainian ultra-nationalist, white supremacist paramilitary organization called the Azov Battalion

thesoufancenter.org

Recruits from the U.S., Norway, Italy, Germany, the United Kingdom, Brazil, Sweden, and Australia, among others, have reportedly traveled to train with the Azov Battalion.

None of what I post is Russian propaganda. I check it all, I check the writers and the organisations that they work for.

People used to laugh on this site years ago when I talked about these far right networks and how dangerous they were.

I am sure there are people like that over there, just like they exist over here. But they are a tiny minority. Unless of course you think that Tarrant represents all Australians.

Do you?

Because it is a stupid argument and attempt at a gotcha moment that has no relevance to what is occurring.

 

[Del191229]

Yeah, this will bleed Russia white (Ha Ha). For all of the supposed experts talking about Nato and Racism and every other piece of whataboutism, this is simply a case of theft through conquest.

And there are plenty of people who will fight against that, not least the Ukrainian's and their diaspora.

It will be just like Afghanistan, everyone with a grudge will be flocking there. And in the end Ukraine will still exist, NATO will be reinvigorated and Russia will be bankrupt.

And not all the justification in the world is going to change that.

Apart from the fact they will have the world's largest economy bankrolling them.

 

[Del191229]

That has relevance though because Putin is trying to put that state back together and at the moment it involves Ukraine.

Putin isn't trying to put the USSR back together.

He's trying to keep a client buffer state between him and NATO.

 

[Del191229]

Folks need to work from basic principles.

If Putin was some crude power crazed madman, he never ever would have passed the first stage of KGB assesments.

He's a ruthless hyper intelligent calculating prick.

He's won several wars - Chechnya, Georgia, Crime and Syria - all of which Western branes assured us would be quagmires that ended his rule.

He's acting entirely rationally here.

And it is ugly and brutal, but anyone pretending Vladimir Putin has introduced brutal and ugly power politics to that part of the world, well, hmmmmmm.

 

[B4Bear]

Apart from the fact they will have the world's largest economy bankrolling them.

I assume you mean China? If that is their plan then they are in for a rude shock.

They are not yet the biggest, and they have deep structural problems of their own. China will be in no position to bankroll anyone for the foreseeable future.

 

[B4Bear]

Putin isn't trying to put the USSR back together.

He's trying to keep a client buffer state between him and NATO.

Which is what the USSR had.

 

[ferball]

I am sure there are people like that over there, just like they exist over here. But they are a tiny minority. Unless of course you think that Tarrant represents all Australians.

Do you?

Because it is a stupid argument and attempt at a gotcha moment that has no relevance to what is occurring.

He represents a bigger minority than you probably realise. I've been hearing otherwise reasonable people talk about casually killing Muslims for years. Its shocking hearing some of the shit people say around here. Tarrant grew up around here, 150 km south around Grafton. Raised by lefty hippies too, and they were devestated about what happened iirc.

The point is Ukraine is the heart of an international neo nazi network and was for years before this invasion. Its not some Russian lie - neo nazi militia's are part of the Ukrainian national guard. They have a few of them too, not just Azov.

There are also anti fascists from Europe flocking to Ukraine to fight Putin. I wonder if at some point the neo nazis and anti fascists will forget about the Russians and just fight each other.

 

[Del191229]

I assume you mean China? If that is their plan then they are in for a rude shock.

They are not yet the biggest, and they have deep structural problems of their own. China will be in no position to bankroll anyone for the foreseeable future.

Rightio.

The US - which had a coup attempt last year and is likely face a complete meltdown of its political system in 2024 - has far deeper structural problems.

The EU can barely hold its financial act together and just saw one of its largest member states withdraw a few years ago.

But yeah, China is in the shit.

 

[Del191229]

Which is what the USSR had.

The USSR fully integrated them into one polity.

Very different.

 

[B4Bear]

Folks need to work from basic principles.

If Putin was some crude power crazed madman, he never ever would have passed the first stage of KGB assesments.

He's a ruthless hyper intelligent calculating prick.

He's won several wars - Chechnya, Georgia, Crime and Syria - all of which Western branes assured us would be quagmires that ended his rule.

He's acting entirely rationally here.

And it is ugly and brutal, but anyone pretending Vladimir Putin has introduced brutal and ugly power politics to that part of the world, well, hmmmmmm.

Except he has 100% control of all of Russia and hundreds of billions stashed away. He rules by dictate and fear.

Sounds very much like a the typical power crazy dictator that we all know and love.

Also those assessments are over 40 years old now. People change and adapt, like you said he is intelligent and took his chances when the USSR disintegrated.

He wants more power, the only thing he doesn't have is total power.

 

[Del191229]

This guy is great

 

[B4Bear]

Rightio.

The US - which had a coup attempt last year and is likely face a complete meltdown of its political system in 2024 - has far deeper structural problems.

The EU can barely hold its financial act together and just saw one of its largest member states withdraw a few years ago.

But yeah, China is in the sh*t.

Do you ever not go on a tangent?

I was specifically talking about the bankrolling of Russia by China, your assertion.

Nothing about Europe or the USA.

Many things can happen at the same time, and I am not disputing your other claims about the USA or Europe.

Stay on topic, just once.

 

[Del191229]

Except he has 100% control of all of Russia and hundreds of billions stashed away. He rules by dictate and fear.

Do you think he just rocked up one day and challenged rich dudes to a fight or somehting?

 

[ferball]

Yeah, this will bleed Russia white (Ha Ha). For all of the supposed experts talking about Nato and Racism and every other piece of whataboutism, this is simply a case of theft through conquest.

And there are plenty of people who will fight against that, not least the Ukrainian's and their diaspora.

It will be just like Afghanistan, everyone with a grudge will be flocking there. And in the end Ukraine will still exist, NATO will be reinvigorated and Russia will be bankrupt.

And not all the justification in the world is going to change that.

Russia has already stolen every major source of energy in Ukraine. The breakaway republics contain shale oil and the Crimea has the territorial rights to all the gas south of the Ukrainian coast. It doesn't need to steal anything else.

 

[Del191229]

Do you ever not go on a tangent?

I was specifically talking about the bankrolling of Russia by China, your assertion.

Nothing about Europe or the USA.

Many things can happen at the same time, and I am not disputing your other claims about the USA or Europe.

Stay on topic, just once.

Are you not capable of understanding that in a globalised world you can't just look at one thing in isolation and pretend that's all that matters.

My points demonstrate that China already is the world's pre-eminent financial power.

As in the link I provided, you need to understand that China is happy to bankroll Russia to survive its being sanctioned out of the Western system, because that means China gets to create an entirely separate financial system.

What happens when China says OK we're not paying Australia for iron ore via the Western financial system any more.

Australia has to make a choice then don't we?

THIS is what's important.