Play Nice The NM Devils Chessboard thread.

[the big lebowski]

69,000 actullay, if we're just making up numbers.

You have more experience in making things up. Im not sure how it works.

I’m not hopeful like you that Russia and China can destroy western civilisation like you are rooting for

 

[the big lebowski]

And then they surrendered to the Taliban in Doha you imbecile.

Because they had lost the war.

And you got a stiffy?

 

[Val Keating]

People's basic psychological make up doesn't change over time.

That's why orgs like KGB do these assessments, because they know they will have these people for decades.

I don't understand why folks find it so hard to accept that Putin is super smart, super ruthless, super effective leader who has the runs on the board.

Its like saying Dusty is sh*t because he plays for Richmond not us.

Of course a persons psychological make up can change over time. It’s very common for people in his position to lose perspective.

He’s basically isolated himself because anyone that speaks against him even in the slightest are removed from their positions. Age could also be a factor. He’s not that old but he’s old enough that it wouldn’t surprise me if his thinking has slipped a bit.

I’m not suggesting he’s no longer smart, though he has made a mess of this invasion. I think he genuinely thought the Ukrainians would capitulate and welcome Russia and unite.

In contrast the Ukrainian president has been lionised and the Russian army are going to have to take Ukrainians mercilessly. Civilians are fighting them, not waving Russian flags.

This has been a disaster for Russia. Their money is becoming worthless. Oligarchs are having assets seized, just saw this morning that one of them had his mega yacht taken by Germany. They’ve been kicked out of pretty much every sporting organisation.

There’s no way he planned that.

Even China has publicly spoken against them (though we know they’re full of shit).

How long will Russians put up with it? Will he have to go back to the same surveillance methods used by the KGB and the secret police used by Starlin as the Russian people start to realise exactly how bad they’ve got it?

My concern is that he’ll feel like he has nothing to lose and then he’ll be really dangerous.

 

[B4Bear]

I see that you are a simpleton.

And I see that you have become the resident sanctimonious self righteous prick that was formally held be he who shall not be named.

One who thinks they get to abuse people for having the temerity to disagree with your world view.

 

[B4Bear]

Of course a persons psychological make up can change over time. It’s very common for people in his position to lose perspective.

He’s basically isolated himself because anyone that speaks against him even in the slightest are removed from their positions. Age could also be a factor. He’s not that old but he’s old enough that it wouldn’t surprise me if his thinking has slipped a bit.

I’m not suggesting he’s no longer smart, though he has made a mess of this invasion. I think he genuinely thought the Ukrainians would capitulate and welcome Russia and unite.

In contrast the Ukrainian president has been lionised and the Russian army are going to have to take Ukrainians mercilessly. Civilians are fighting them, not waving Russian flags.

This has been a disaster for Russia. Their money is becoming worthless. Oligarchs are having assets seized, just saw this morning that one of them had his mega yacht taken by Germany. They’ve been kicked out of pretty much every sporting organisation.

There’s no way he planned that.

Even China has publicly spoken against them (though we know they’re full of sh*t).

How long will Russians put up with it? Will he have to go back to the same surveillance methods used by the KGB and the secret police used by Starlin as the Russian people start to realise exactly how bad they’ve got it?

My concern is that he’ll feel like he has nothing to lose and then he’ll be really dangerous.

Notice how the waterboys refuse to specify where their line in the sand is. There does not appear to be a casualty count that is too high for them to stop cheering Putin on.

 

[the big lebowski]

And I see that you have become the resident sanctimonious self righteous prick that was formally held be he who shall not be named.

One who thinks they get to abuse people for having the temerity to disagree with your world view.

He’s very Snakeish.

The parallels are blinding.

 

[Val Keating]

You have more experience in making things up. Im not sure how it works.

I’m not hopeful like you that Russia and China can destroy western civilisation like you are rooting for

The numbers you’re quoting are from Ukraine, the Russians say they have 1,500 casualties and I can’t remember how many prisoners they said Ukraine has taken. So I spose the number is probably in the middle. I’m actually surprised Russia has even admitted now that they’re taking casualties. It’s a bit of a 180 for them

 

[the big lebowski]

The numbers you’re quoting are from Ukraine, the Russians say they have 1,500 casualties and I can’t remember how many prisoners they said Ukraine has taken. So I spose the number is probably in the middle. I’m actually surprised Russia has even admitted now that they’re taking casualties. It’s a bit of a 180 for them

Sure. The 5,000 is a placeholder figure.

But the point was that in comparison to 20 years and 2,400 US troop deaths, the military campaign to date has been an embarrassing failure for Russia.

 

[Del191229]

Notice how the waterboys refuse to specify where their line in the sand is. There does not appear to be a casualty count that is too high for them to stop cheering Putin on.

Yes, me saying repeatedly he's a ruthless cynical prick is cheering him on.

 

[Del191229]

When are you guys getting your flights to Poland and heading over the border to fight?

 

[Val Keating]

Sure. The 5,000 is a placeholder figure.

But the point was that in comparison to 20 years and 2,400 US troop deaths, the military campaign to date has been an embarrassing failure for Russia.

True. But you’re comparing them to the greatest army the world has ever known.

 

[Del191229]

True. But you’re comparing them to the greatest army the world has ever known.

Counting troop deaths as an indication of winning/losing is just dumb.

Who is in control in Kabul now?

The Taliban.

Who will be in control of Kyiv very soon?

The Russians.

The Soviets lost far more troops in 1941/45 than the Germans.

Who's flag is this flying from the Reichstag?

 

[Makeshift Park]

Counting troop deaths as an indication of winning/losing is just dumb.

Who is in control in Kabul now?

The Taliban.

Who will be in control of Kyiv very soon?

The Russians.

The Soviets lost far more troops in 1941/45 than the Germans.

Who's flag is this flying from the Reichstag?

Do you find that insulting people usually persuades them to come around to your point of view?

 

[Val Keating]

Notice how the waterboys refuse to specify where their line in the sand is. There does not appear to be a casualty count that is too high for them to stop cheering Putin on.

Can we not get personal like that? And if you must please don’t include me. I having a hard enough time trying to wrap my head around this as it is without the squabbling.

 

[B4Bear]

Can we not get personal like that? And if you must please don’t include me. I having a hard enough time trying to wrap my head around this as it is without the squabbling.

Fair call.

 

[Val Keating]

Counting troop deaths as an indication of winning/losing is just dumb.

Who is in control in Kabul now?

The Taliban.

Who will be in control of Kyiv very soon?

The Russians.

The Soviets lost far more troops in 1941/45 than the Germans.

Who's flag is this flying from the Reichstag?

Yeah pretty hard to “liberate” a country when the people that live there don’t actually want you there.

It’s also worth noting that while the Taliban is in control of Afghanistan, the US sure as shit sent a message that if they bleed, everyone bleeds. Iraq and Afghanistan will never be the same again. It might be wrong but it is what it is.

Did you see the US intelligence report that I posted a few pages back? They think it’ll take a few weeks to control Kyiv and occupy Ukraine somewhere between 10-20 years and ultimately lose, just like they did in Afghanistan.

 

[Mav]

Yes, me saying repeatedly he's a ruthless cynical prick is cheering him on.

mate, you are posting as if you're justifying the war. Your insights into why it is happening have been very informative but nothing you have posted justifies the war. Just because Putin said he would invade if Ukraine went down the Nato path, and others said he would, doesn't justify him actually doing it.

 

[Del191229]

Did you see the US intelligence report that I posted a few pages back? They think it’ll take a few weeks to control Kyiv and occupy Ukraine somewhere between 10-20 years and ultimately lose, just like they did in Afghanistan.

That's the Americans using American thinking and their own experiences though.

Putin is not American and comes from a very different place.

I can't see him going to an open ended occupation of of the entirety of Ukraine.

He's already broken off the eastern republics and recognised them.

He'll likely expand formal Russian territory north from Crimea.

As for the rest of it, the way he pacified Chechnya is likely the model.

Impose a local strongman like he did with Kadyrov and give them licence to run the joint as they wish as long as they recognise Moscow's primacy.

Agreed if they try and hold it all a la the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, they'll lose just as the US did.

 

[Del191229]

mate, you are posting as if you're justifying the war. Your insights into why it is happening have been very informative but nothing you have posted justifies the war. Just because Putin said he would invade if Ukraine went down the Nato path, and others said he would, doesn't justify him actually doing it.

It is an illegal war of aggression, let there be no doubt about that.

But the West has launched multiple illegal wars of aggression too.

That's the norm in international affairs post 9/11 now, and we wrote that norm.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

This thread is for the tip.

Arguing that because various politicians and foreign analysts predicted this would happen if Ukraine moved closer to the west, so this is all somehow down to the NATO powers is unseemly, and denies the sovereignty of the Ukrainian people. Pretending Putin has a cynical brilliance to be admired rather than abhorred is just wrong.

Cheering on team USA and acting as if the Ukrainians are the noblest warriors and citizens of the modern world is also nauseating.

Dismissing Yemenis as goat-herders who we cannot empathise with because they are different to us is disgusting.

The constant cries of "whataboutism" as if we cannot compare the reactions to different conflicts without somehow becoming dismissive of the Ukrainian situation is just dumb. It only serves to reinforce the point - if bringing up conflicts in the global south diminishes the suffering of the Ukrainian people, it suggests that the suffering of other people is less important. Now is the perfect time to have that conversation while it has relevance, but everyone wants to kick the can down the road.

 

[Del191229]

If this is true and Zelensky was actually calling CNN from a phone.

I mean, the Russians iced Dudayev like this 25 years ago.

 

[Val Keating]

That's the Americans using American thinking and their own experiences though.

Putin is not American and comes from a very different place.

I can't see him going to an open ended occupation of of the entirety of Ukraine.

He's already broken off the eastern republics and recognised them.

He'll likely expand formal Russian territory north from Crimea.

As for the rest of it, the way he pacified Chechnya is likely the model.

Impose a local strongman like he did with Kadyrov and give them licence to run the joint as they wish as long as they recognise Moscow's primacy.

Agreed if they try and hold it all a la the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, they'll lose just as the US did.

Russia lost in Afghanistan too yeah?

Is Kadyrov the bloke the Ukrainians ran out in the civil war? They can’t try that again. There’ll be no peace. There’ll be local militia again bombing shit and end up with another revolution. That’s too short sighted.

 

[Val Keating]

If this is true and Zelensky was actually calling CNN from a phone.

I mean, the Russians iced Dudayev like this 25 years ago.

They’re 100% going to martyr him eventually.

 

[Del191229]

Russia lost in Afghanistan too yeah?

Is Kadyrov the bloke the Ukrainians ran out in the civil war? They can’t try that again. There’ll be no peace. There’ll be local militia again bombing sh*t and end up with another revolution. That’s too short sighted.

Soviets lost yep.

Kadyrov is the Chechen warlord Putin put in place to keep the peace there - which he has done very successfully and with enormous brutality.

 

[Del191229]

They’re 100% going to martyr him eventually.

The ****er has big steel baws, that's for sure.