Analysis The No-Sacking, No-Cussing, How-Can-We-Improve Thread 2019

John Who

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Rules of this thread:
1. No talks of player or coach sackings - plenty of other threads to let loose on those line of thoughts.
2. Serious chats in what you hope the coaches and/or players to do better.
3. No entry in this thread if you are drunk or are melting after a loss.
4. There needs to be more G-rated words and only 1-2% expletives, no more.

I'll start:

When we were 3 goals down in the last quarter and around 6 minutes left. I want whenever we're in this situation to play like angry dogs and just push the ball forward! There is no point doing chip kicks and going backwards and sideways because:
a). No time for that nonsense!
b). That "chip kicks, sideways and backwards" game haven't been working for you for 3 and a half quarters, so why keep bloody doing it?!!
 

ManInTheArena

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The players have a real issue in their heads. I think they thought they'd be a premiership contender, but they're like a car with the choke stuck on. They just can't switch on.

When the issue is in their minds, the solution isn't simple, especially for someone sitting on the outside. It's not the same as analysing the game and making game changes.

If I had to give a solution, I'd suggest this week focus on their mindset. I think an obvious issue is that we're making so many mistakes that the player who has the ball doesn't want to be the next person who makes a mistake so they pass the problem to someone else. We need to let them be daring and take the game on, and hold players to account when they take the easy way out to save their own skin. Find out what they're afraid of, and why they're flat as biscuits, and fix it.

Oh, and * shitty s**t s**t. Sack the coaches. Chapman is a ding bat. Fagan is weak as piss.
 
Jul 9, 2013
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Game plan needs an overhaul pronto. Don Pyke said in the presser that there would be some late nights this week. I hope that work has well and truly started. What's evident to me after watching Saturday nights game, and I haven't watched the replay yet, is that opposition teams have created space with ease against us, kicking backwards and sideways to draw us out and open up our zone, and then pick their way through it. We try and do the same and they close us down and force us wide. Is this just on workrate ?? I find that hard to believe. I think it's structural. I also now think we are too tall. We need to inject legspeed, and a change in personnel has to happen this week. Pyke said he didn't think wholesale changes were necessary, but hopefully his definition of wholesale changes and everyone else's differs. Also to hear that they thought we went too quickly against Geelong, that's just madness. We didn't go quick enough. I said in the review thread that we saw flashes of what we needed to be doing, but that we needed to be doing it a lot more going forward. We certainly didn't need to going in to our shells like we did. Change the angles and open the game up. Smith and Milera are the ones who are very capable of doing this and they need to be the distributors out of half back. We do NOT need the ball in the hands of Talia, Hartigan and Kelly coming out of the backline. Which we once again saw way too often on Saturday night. Gibbs in to play the high half forward role, which he will be much better suited to than playing off half back. Sloane and Brad Crouch are the best mids we have. Play them there. I know that there is still plenty of life left in this season if we can sort a few things out, but it's gonna involve some change. I just hope that we see that change this week, and start building from there.
 
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We need to be aware that teams are happy to let Kelly, Talia and Harto drop back to receive the ball. Those three need to have it drilled into them to not make themselves an option. We also need to be aware that "long down the line" is a poor game plan, we seem frightened to use the corridor, we owned it in 2017, back then we would use the 30-40 metre kick in board to split defences open, that is how we were able to get all those JTGs for Jenkins. As it is, we appear too scared to take the game on and risk turning it over.

Don't even get me started on kickins. I watched GWS take kick in after kick in and it was different all the time, which used a speedy player running the ball out of d50 going straight up the ground and hitting a target to beat the zone. We go out the pocket, then if we don't go down the line long, we kick the ball back near the goal square to Harto, Talia or Kelly.

Can I swear now Jonathon?
 
We went at 76% disposal efficiency against North.

Seems that it has been drummed into the players to not turn the ball over. Don't take risks and don't bomb it like we did in R1.

As an aside, when Sando came in he made winning contests the priority, which resulted in us being bulls at the contest but horribly inefficient.

We need to focus on winning the game, instead of not losing. We need to bring in a mix of speed, footskills and X-factor. We've got a plethora of accumulators who don't hurt you (M. Crouch, Laird, Atkins, Lynch, Mackay, Knight, CEY, etc) and a shortage of players capable of winning contests and/or doing something damaging with it.
 
Jul 9, 2013
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We need to be aware that teams are happy to let Kelly, Talia and Harto drop back to receive the ball. Those three need to have it drilled into them to not make themselves an option. We also need to be aware that "long down the line" is a poor game plan, we seem frightened to use the corridor, we owned it in 2017, back then we would use the 30-40 metre kick in board to split defences open, that is how we were able to get all those JTGs for Jenkins. As it is, we appear too scared to take the game on and risk turning it over.
St Kilda did that today against Hawthorn, and surprise surprise, they beat them. I'd really love to know how many other games our coaches are watching each weekend. And not doing it with a pizza and a beer in hand, watching them intently. Do they get access to behind the goals footage of each and every game. I assume that they would. Surely they have to know 4 rounds in what teams are trying to do, and then what they are doing against us.
 
1) Fix our midfield stoppage structures so we can win the ball cleanly in stoppages and can transition it forward without hack kicks or going backwards.

2) Take more risks from the half back line. Smith, you have an elite long kick, so use it. Stop Kelly and Hartigan from looking backwards or to the sides as their first option. Ban Talia, Kelly, Hartigan and Keath from kicking to each other within 60m of the defensive goals.

3) Play young players in their proper positions. If we decide to bring in Gallucci, or keep Jones, or keep Poholke, play them as midfielders not forward pocket grave diggers. If we need proper forward pocket players, bring in guys that actually play there at a lower level.

4) With kick ins we need to ban two completely ineffective strategies: handballing or 15m kicking it to the pocket; and kicking long to a ruckman 60m out from goal

5) Jenkins needs to play in front, lead at the ball, run through packs and use his size. Every time Jenkins doesn't do this, it's straight to the bench for a nipple pinch. Hart can be our designated nipple pincher because he's ineffective at anything else

6) Get the midfield to work harder defensively, and stop resting blokes like Sloane 70m off the ball in the forward line when we are getting smashed in there and need his workrate.

7) Don't be afraid to lose. Get rid of that mindset and stop playing safe football because it's bringing about more errors than when we play a freer, faster style. It's better to turn the ball over at half forward than at half back from shitting ourselves trying to pass 15m up the ground.
 
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7) Don't be afraid to lose. Get rid of that mindset and stop playing safe football because it's bringing about more errors than when we play a freer, faster style. It's better to turn the ball over at half forward than at half back from shitting ourselves trying to pass 15m up the ground.
This is where we fall down . Its our conservative mindset. It is a cancer

Richmond won (against Port) because they were prepared to lose. They stuck by their playing style no matter what.
 

Schulzycrow

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Our backline is too slow. Kelly is fastish but can't hit a target. Hartigan is useless and starting to think Talia’s best days are behind him. Laird needs time in the middle or even half forward to break his tag. Only Keath and Milera get a pass. Smith needs to do all kicking in and FFS please Afc come up with something other than kick it to the ruckman. Due to the fact Talia, Hartigan and Kelly are great kicks or don't have any flair or field vision to hit an open target upfield, they take the sideways or backwards options and by that time all avenues are blocked and everyone is out of position.

Our midfield is too slow and one dimensional. Our two supposed speedsters in Mackay and Atkins are collectively useless. One tries to tackle while the other actively avoids it. One has a great left leg the other just does slow loopy kicks that 99% of the time get marked by the opposition. Our centre bounce lets opposition just walk away with the ball. Crouches and Sloane are great hard at their players, but too one-paced and cant set up defensively to stop their opponents running away with it. Ruck is what it is. ROB has done as good as he can for a 4 game player. At least he gets to contests and tackles. Sauce’s time is nearly up.

Our forwards can’t take a contested mark to save themselves, can’t or won’t chase. Eddie needs a small forward partner with speed, flair and goal sense. Jones and Murphy aren’t that partner. Jones should play wing for Mackay or Atkins and Murphy can go back to Sanfl.

So all this doom and gloom is actually good as maybe certain above players might get dropped. It all starts with selection.

Ins:
Gibbs
Himmelburg
Greenwood
Stengle
Scholl

Out
Kelly
Hartigan
Mackay
Jenkins
Murphy

Jones to a wing, if passed fit otherwise Atkins stays on a wing with a message, 5 tackles or a month in the 2nds.
Scholl to Keath’s role Keath to Hartigan’s
Anyone with a good kick to Kelly’s role. Gibbs maybe.
Himmelburg to Jenkins spot
Stengle to Murphys
Greenwood into the half-forward line rotating with CEY. Lynch to a wing.
Laird and Milera spend some midfield time. Sloane to some halfback time.

Possibly McHenry for Atkins if he passes concussion.

Just some thoughts.
 
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The players look to be labouring, physically and mentally. The coaching and selection panel are too conservative and defensive. The result is a team of players who can't get out of their own way, too afraid to try anything, overthinking everything. Afraid to take a risk. Every time they turn it over they just lose a bit more confidence. And we've lost our versatility because of stodgy selection policies.

None of our senior players have any improvement left in them. What you see is what you get from the likes of DMac, Jenkins, Tex, Sloane, Lynch, Betts etc. The club needs to have the nuts to call time on some in this group and inject youth, with a license to play on instinct. Get out of their way with stupid gameplans that make players overthink and second guess themselves. Pick a team that is structurally sound and versatile, and let them play.

We've been too heavy defensively all season. We can afford to lose two talls in that group - Hartigan and Kelly. I'd bring in Fog for Tom's role and McHenry as a small defender (for now) in their place. I'd also bring in Scholl to rotate with Fog and Davis. Smith, Laird and Milera rotate through the mids.

We've been too one paced in the mids. We should only have two grunt players in that mix, Sloane and M Crouch (if fit). Gallucci is quick and runs in straight lines, bring him in. Chayce (after concussion) is quick and hard at it, play him in the middle where he belongs. B Crouch is an in/out player so he stays, but his role needs to change somewhat. Laird, Smith and Milera should be rotated through the middle so they can make an impact and shake it up. Hugh Greenwood can join this group, but rotate forward as well. Never more than two of Sloane, M Crouch and Greenwood in the middle. DMac and Atkins make way here.

Up forward, we need some points of difference. We are far too predictable and slow. 3 I50 tackles against a slow team tells you that. Jenkins has to go. Murphy has to lift offensively. Betts needs to be played deep, not high like he has been the last couple of weeks. Lynch needs to go. For those three, Himmelburg, Stengle and Davis come in. Tex needs to come out and play high where he can hit up and distribute.

My team:

McHenry. Talia. Laird
Smith. Keith. Fog
Gallucci. M Crouch. B Crouch
Davis. Tex. Stengle
Betts. Burg. Greenwood

Ruck: ROB (for now) Sloane Milera
Bench: Jones, Scholl, Knight (just), Murphy (just)

Notes:
* Scholl allows Fog to go forward at times, rotating with Greenwood and Davis
* Our grunt players are M Crouch, Sloane and Greenwood (and a bit of Knight)
* Runners are Milera, Gooch, B Crouch, Smith, Laird and Jones.
* Our chop out defenders are Fog and Scholl
* Our small forwards are Betts, Stengle and Murphy (and a bit of Knight)
* Our marking forwards are Burg and Davis, with a bit of Fog and Tex (hitting up)

The team has holes. We need better versions of Knight and Murphy, and a better ruck. I'd rather Fog permanent forward but we need x factor in Davis. M Crouch on form is lucky and I'd consider CEY as an alternative. McHenry is better forward and replaces Murphy when Brown is fit. I'd seriously consider Hunter in ruck. But there are seven new faces from the North game, at the expense of DMac, Atkins, Lynch, Jenkins, Kelly, Hartigan and CEY. Noone could argue that those players don't deserve to be dropped, both on form and on "seen enough, not going to improve" factor.

Of course, this is all fantasy. Our club doesn't make seven changes. Our club doesn't make objective assessments of team stalwarts. Our club doesn't take risks. Our club fears failure and fails as a result. So we might see a forced change for Jones and maybe another "example" dropping. But we'll stick to the structures, back the players to do better and go again. Thus providing no accountability. No tension for spots. No enthusiasm. And no success.
 

ShadeyP

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The players look to be labouring, physically and mentally. The coaching and selection panel are too conservative and defensive. The result is a team of players who can't get out of their own way, too afraid to try anything, overthinking everything. Afraid to take a risk. Every time they turn it over they just lose a bit more confidence. And we've lost our versatility because of stodgy selection policies.

None of our senior players have any improvement left in them. What you see is what you get from the likes of DMac, Jenkins, Tex, Sloane, Lynch, Betts etc. The club needs to have the nuts to call time on some in this group and inject youth, with a license to play on instinct. Get out of their way with stupid gameplans that make players overthink and second guess themselves. Pick a team that is structurally sound and versatile, and let them play.

We've been too heavy defensively all season. We can afford to lose two talls in that group - Hartigan and Kelly. I'd bring in Fog for Tom's role and McHenry as a small defender (for now) in their place. I'd also bring in Scholl to rotate with Fog and Davis. Smith, Laird and Milera rotate through the mids.

We've been too one paced in the mids. We should only have two grunt players in that mix, Sloane and M Crouch (if fit). Gallucci is quick and runs in straight lines, bring him in. Chayce (after concussion) is quick and hard at it, play him in the middle where he belongs. B Crouch is an in/out player so he stays, but his role needs to change somewhat. Laird, Smith and Milera should be rotated through the middle so they can make an impact and shake it up. Hugh Greenwood can join this group, but rotate forward as well. Never more than two of Sloane, M Crouch and Greenwood in the middle. DMac and Atkins make way here.

Up forward, we need some points of difference. We are far too predictable and slow. 3 I50 tackles against a slow team tells you that. Jenkins has to go. Murphy has to lift offensively. Betts needs to be played deep, not high like he has been the last couple of weeks. Lynch needs to go. For those three, Himmelburg, Stengle and Davis come in. Tex needs to come out and play high where he can hit up and distribute.

My team:

McHenry. Talia. Laird
Smith. Keith. Fog
Gallucci. M Crouch. B Crouch
Davis. Tex. Stengle
Betts. Burg. Greenwood

Ruck: ROB (for now) Sloane Milera
Bench: Jones, Scholl, Knight (just), Murphy (just)

Notes:
* Scholl allows Fog to go forward at times, rotating with Greenwood and Davis
* Our grunt players are M Crouch, Sloane and Greenwood (and a bit of Knight)
* Runners are Milera, Gooch, B Crouch, Smith, Laird and Jones.
* Our chop out defenders are Fog and Scholl
* Our small forwards are Betts, Stengle and Murphy (and a bit of Knight)
* Our marking forwards are Burg and Davis, with a bit of Fog and Tex (hitting up)

The team has holes. We need better versions of Knight and Murphy, and a better ruck. I'd rather Fog permanent forward but we need x factor in Davis. M Crouch on form is lucky and I'd consider CEY as an alternative. McHenry is better forward and replaces Murphy when Brown is fit. I'd seriously consider Hunter in ruck. But there are seven new faces from the North game, at the expense of DMac, Atkins, Lynch, Jenkins, Kelly, Hartigan and CEY. Noone could argue that those players don't deserve to be dropped, both on form and on "seen enough, not going to improve" factor.

Of course, this is all fantasy. Our club doesn't make seven changes. Our club doesn't make objective assessments of team stalwarts. Our club doesn't take risks. Our club fears failure and fails as a result. So we might see a forced change for Jones and maybe another "example" dropping. But we'll stick to the structures, back the players to do better and go again. Thus providing no accountability. No tension for spots. No enthusiasm. And no success.

Excellent post and very similar view of where we are and where we need to be
 

Elite Crow

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We need to be aware that teams are happy to let Kelly, Talia and Harto drop back to receive the ball. Those three need to have it drilled into them to not make themselves an option. We also need to be aware that "long down the line" is a poor game plan, we seem frightened to use the corridor, we owned it in 2017, back then we would use the 30-40 metre kick in board to split defences open, that is how we were able to get all those JTGs for Jenkins. As it is, we appear too scared to take the game on and risk turning it over.

Don't even get me started on kickins. I watched GWS take kick in after kick in and it was different all the time, which used a speedy player running the ball out of d50 going straight up the ground and hitting a target to beat the zone. We go out the pocket, then if we don't go down the line long, we kick the ball back near the goal square to Harto, Talia or Kelly.

Can I swear now Jonathon?
Yeah the kick in strategy is just so bad I don’t get how amongst all the coaching group they thought it was a good one. Going short to someone 15 metres away means that person has to go behind the player on the mark, you actually lose distance and allow the other team time to zone up.

The other issue we have is because we have no marking options at all and I mean no one in the whole team, if we go long we have no one to kick to.
 
Yeah the kick in strategy is just so bad I don’t get how amongst all the coaching group they thought it was a good one. Going short to someone 15 metres away means that person has to go behind the player on the mark, you actually lose distance and allow the other team time to zone up.

The other issue we have is because we have no marking options at all and I mean no one in the whole team, if we go long we have no one to kick to.
Smithers used to be our best kick... has that changed since the knee? What’s the point in changing who does the kick in, when they kick it to the same place every time? Doesn’t make sense.
 

hey shorty

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As i mentioned in the changes thread, we can immediately make our side better in the next 3 or so weeks with 5 returning players.

Gamestyle wise, midfield and forward structures need to change. Speed of ball movement needs to change and I'm not talking about going fast all the time. Picking your moments, hitting your targets would be a start.

Selections are an issue but game style is the biggest issue.
 
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Seriously it’s not funny. You’ve been asked not to do this in here. Take your trolling elsewhere.
Let's be honest, you can't fix the problem if this isn't part of the solution. Not GreyCrow 's fault the thread title is stupid.
 

ManInTheArena

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Perhaps we should put the players through some sort of mental toughness training.

Whilst this is funny, it's not as dumb as it sounds. The issue we have now is we've been burnt so badly it may prevent us from trying new consultants. I think we definitely do need something done in what Don would call "that mind, space" but now we'd be terrified to try.
 

Vhaluus

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Whilst this is funny, it's not as dumb as it sounds. The issue we have now is we've been burnt so badly it may prevent us from trying new consultants. I think we definitely do need something done in what Don would call "that mind, space" but now we'd be terrified to try.

It was meant mainly as a joke.

But honestly the first step if they actually wanted to go down that direction is to actually get people with proper, formal, psychology training.

A lot of sports teams out there have found good results from having psychologists come in and help players out. Sports psychology is a legit thing.
 

ManInTheArena

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It was meant mainly as a joke.

But honestly the first step if they actually wanted to go down that direction is to actually get people with proper, formal, psychology training.

A lot of sports teams out there have found good results from having psychologists come in and help players out. Sports psychology is a legit thing.

I think Pyke was heading in the right direction, and I think he was right to say there is a lot of upside and improvement in the mind space area that AFL clubs haven't tapped into. He and Burton just completely screwed the execution of it. My concern is that now they've been massively burnt, they'll drop the strategy rather than try a different execution.

We are obviously shot in our mind space at the moment. Are we so afraid in that area now that we've dropped it right off rather than continue even the base level of sports psychology you'd expect at an AFL club?
 

subaru

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We need to play new blood with pace; we are not getting any younger and there is no point waiting until our old players have slowed to a stop.

We need to take advantage of the kickin rule; 4 games in and I’m yet to see any variation in this crucial set play.
I was seething when I saw Smith kick in with a 15 meter pass

Get Smith to take the 15 meter pass and roost the +***ing thing OUT of the backline before the opposition set up !

I don’t care if we lose having a crack
Saturday nights slowfest gave me the utter shits

Also - How much are we missing Brown and Doedee ???
 

subaru

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I think Pyke was heading in the right direction, and I think he was right to say there is a lot of upside and improvement in the mind space area that AFL clubs haven't tapped into. He and Burton just completely screwed the execution of it. My concern is that now they've been massively burnt, they'll drop the strategy rather than try a different execution.

We are obviously shot in our mind space at the moment. Are we so afraid in that area now that we've dropped it right off rather than continue even the base level of sports psychology you'd expect at an AFL club?

And that was my major fear after losing to Cats
That confidence is now a huge issue with the group
Confidence in each other but mainly confidence in the game plan ( wherever the **** that is ) and the coaches

Get JENNY WILLIAMS quick smart !!!!!
 
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