Analysis The No-Sacking, No-Cussing, How-Can-We-Improve Thread 2019

[Murray2503]

You just beat me to it, I was listening to Jars and Lewy today and they touched on the no runner this year, It got me thinking that maybe that had a bigger effect on us than we care to admit, I know it's the same for all teams, But Pyke going to the bench he would be able to instruct the players direct, and like you say engage with them more.

Been saying this for weeks. Sitting up in the box looking clueless is not good for anyone. Needs to get on the bench and start coaching during the match. To my eyes he doesn't seem to have a comfortable relationship with the players. Seems very robotic in his interaction with them. I guess if he has lost the players which I believe he has it doesn't matter where he sits. Just for the record I am not letting the players off the hook. There is 8 or 9 that shouldn't be in the side but if Don has lost the ones that matter there is a big problem that must be dealt with.

 

[Golumless]

What you say might be true, but it does not take into account why we were around 20 points up sometime in the third quarter. Shows we can win, but something is missing still. As opposed to us being thrashed quarter by quarter (which would make your theory more plausible).

We were 20 points up by luck. North were trying their darndest by that point to throw the game, and couldn't defend if they're lives depended on the rare occasion when we went forward.

That scoreline flattered us, because the way we were playing was begging to be 5-10 goals down by that point.

 

[George 13]

I think the restriction of the use of the runner is really affecting the way coaches are influencing the game during the quarters. Seems like it will be a growing trend that coaches will come to the players bench more. And whilst Pyke is down in the bench, he can do death stares and nipple pinches to any player who did zero during the quarter when they come to the bench.

The question for me is will Pyke try it? I know Clarko does it and I think Hardwick?. Pyke just seems far to Conservative to trial it, Which is frustrating, anyway hope he proves me wrong.

 

[George 13]

Been saying this for weeks. Sitting up in the box looking clueless is not good for anyone. Needs to get on the bench and start coaching during the match. To my eyes he doesn't seem to have a comfortable relationship with the players. Seems very robotic in his interaction with them. I guess if he has lost the players which I believe he has it doesn't matter where he sits. Just for the record I am not letting the players off the hook. There is 8 or 9 that shouldn't be in the side but if Don has lost the ones that matter there is a big problem that must be dealt with.

Agree with all of that, I didn't think Pyke had lost the players until after this round.

 

[Murray2503]

The question for me is will Pyke try it? I know Clarko does it and I think Hardwick?. Pyke just seems far to Conservative to trial it, Which is frustrating, anyway hope he proves me wrong.

Shouldn't come down to whether he wants to do it or not. If it is needed he must do it. Like I said though if he has lost them it will not help but this is something he could have done previously to create a stronger bond with them. These days you need great interpersonal skills to be a successful coach. This is something Pyke is definitely lacking in. Not his fault, you are born with the personality you have. Just feel Don would be more suited to an analytical role instead of player management. My query is on the ones that hired Don. Chapman, Roo and Fagan. I don't know how the thought Don was better suited to player management than analysis. He comes from a scientific background unless I am mistaken. The club had already unsuccessfully gone down the scientific path with Neale Craig. Not sure why we repeated it. The club needs someone like Chris Fagan or Clarko. We need a teacher who players can relate too and work in tandem with.

 

[tinman]

Our ball movement is glacial.

So many people are critical of the forwards, who would want to play in our forward line? How many inside ‘50’s did we have on Saturday? And when we did, it took a month to move it in there.

We need players to break lines, fast ball movement. All we’re doing now is letting sides sit back whilst we kick sideways, let them clog our forward 50, and allow them to hit us on the break. It’s rope a dope.

And when we get Kelly, Hartigan and Talia chipping it around the defensive 50, it’s a ticking time bomb. Get the ball into the hands of players who can run and kick, and move forward ffs.

Btw, Love Talia but he was crucified on the weekend.

And the kick ins, what the hell? Whilst we were obviously having fun in the pre season maybe we should have worked on some set kick in plays? Our kicking in has been appalling.

In short, take the game on. And if we lose, let’s go down kicking and screaming. But not like what we’ve seen so far this season, where we aren’t even trying to take the game on. Playing “keepy offies” until eventually we turn the ball over.

Don, you don’t get points for time in possession. We need to attack. Through the corridor and put defences under pressure. And give our forwards some chance. It’s not about missing McGovern or anyone who can take a pack mark, fast movement gets the ball in so we see one on one, two on two. Not 9 on 9 where Wayne Carey at his peak would struggle.

If we do that and stuff it up, at least we’re having a crack. The s**t were seeing now is unwatchable and won’t beat anyone. We’re actually beating ourselves with our incredibly slow and conservative ball movement.

We have some real talent, but look like we’re on Valium. We have the players to do far better than this.

 

[outabounds]

Also practice kicking ball out. Moving. Rucking. And not sucking.

What the ???

OMG - a thousand apologies, I thought this was a Carlton post. At least you have our fist pick!

 

[craig crowing]

Heard Blighty tonight whilst driving . Couple of points raised.
A- Not taking advantage of new kick in rule.
B -- new 666 rule is what's required to help open up game and he wants a coach not to be a lamb and have you know what and open up game and play 1 on 1 and will get rewards and see better gams.
C. -- Hates kicking back and wants rule kicking back in defence is play on.
D -- Says our forwards don't have much opportunity to shine as taking too long to get in there missing leads and generally so congested Walker always has 2 players on.
E -- Very emphatic on this one -- Ruck Jenkins or dump him.

 

[ManInTheArena]

I heard a bit of Campo on my drive home. He said the players went too fast and kicked too long against Hawthorn and he said you just cant play that way in 2019. They've been trying to hang onto the ball and pinpoint team mates as we transition from defence. One of the main reasons is because our forwards press so high we need to wait for them to run back to the forward line to make a contest. In the North game the players went too slow, sideways and conservative. Also North spread better and also defended better.

Maybe the AFL's best practice footy department could conjure up a 2019 game plan and some in game tactics if things aren't going our way.

In other words, we made a game plan that doesn't work and had our players practice it for six months.

 

[mcattack]

In other words, we made a game plan that doesn't work and had our players practice it for six months.

Love how the coaches can see a problem but can't make adjustments at the time. Instead plan b is kick short sideways and force our fwds into defence.

 

[mattymac]

Start by seeing no more of Deep Tommy Lynch.

Whose idiot idea was this? Don't worry I know it was Ben Hart reinventing the wheel.

Lynch is useless as a deep forward. One of the softest least agile men you'll meet.

His strength is running.

Only a decent target forward when he has burned off his man up on the wing and appears I50 unchecked.

Get Lynch back high on the wing or drop him.

 

[jackster83]

In other words, we made a game plan that doesn't work and had our players practice it for six months.

But it's all the players' fault apparently.

 

[mcattack]

Start by seeing no more of Deep Tommy Lynch.

Whose idiot idea was this? Don't worry I know it was Ben Hart reinventing the wheel.

Lynch is useless as a deep forward. One of the softest least agile men you'll meet.

His strength is running.

Only a decent target forward when he has burned off his man up on the wing and appears I50 unchecked.

Get Lynch back high on the wing or drop him.

Exactly right play to our strengths. Aging list which is missing run. At least Lynch provides some of that. Milera could be used in this way also.

 

[craig crowing]

Love how the coaches can see a problem but can't make adjustments at the time. Instead plan b is kick short sideways and force our fwds into defence.

Even Rowey caught Campo out on that one saying it was happening from 1st qtr why went you correcting at qtr etc time breaks and correcting .
Campo was trying to not blame players but not blame themselves so really blaming players.

 

[jenny61_99]

And?

Can you elaborate on what they said

I really think you need to watch it if you can. I'm bound to miss stuff out. But it was a full on discussion with all of them giving their penneth worth as to what has happened.

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

I'm 2017 our ball movement was a class above everyone.

They've caught up. We're trying to raise the bar further, to do what we do, how innovate this club is, to continually introduce styles of football, it ain't all rosy when in developmental stage.

Give it time. We have 3 or 4 things going on when ready to release from half back. The kicker needs to understand everybody's role, to make the correct decision to release and execute

That ain't happening at the moment.

 

[mcattack]

I'm 2017 our ball movement was a class above everyone.

They've caught up. We're trying to raise the bar further, to do what we do, how innovate this club is, to continually introduce styles of football, it ain't all rosy when in developmental stage.

Give it time. We have 3 or 4 things going on when ready to release from half back. The kicker needs to understand everybody's role, to make the correct decision to release and execute

That ain't happening at the moment.

Our club inventing ways to over complicate footy. Players will need a degree soon.

 

[mattymac]

I'm 2017 our ball movement was a class above everyone.

They've caught up. We're trying to raise the bar further, to do what we do, how innovate this club is, to continually introduce styles of football, it ain't all rosy when in developmental stage.

Give it time. We have 3 or 4 things going on when ready to release from half back. The kicker needs to understand everybody's role, to make the correct decision to release and execute

That ain't happening at the moment.

Something weird has happened here. When Pyke got to the club our go to move was still by and large the hack kick forward as it had been since Sando.

Pyke made all the players do kicking tests and worked out from the data their optimal kicking ranges and types where they were likely to hit a target and they were instructed to take these kicks and team mates were instructed to present for these kicks.

By 2017 we were seeing virtually no hack kicks. Matt Crouch was like a young Sam Mitchell just hitting up those 20-30 m stab passes. Even Hartigan was rarely biting off more than he could chew.

For some reason that's gone out the window and the players have regressed to the hack kick forward as our main avenue to attack.

I suspect it has to do with opposition shutting down our space and also players are more lazy now and not working into space to provide options for the ball carrier. We're a much more selfish team now.

 

[azza77]

I'm not going to post some lengthy strategy just 1 thing.
Take the game on FFS. I don't think I've seen this once this year. If we do this we'll have a chance.

I think amongst a bunch of smaller problems, this is the biggest thing. The other two being work rate and s**t house tackling.

In 2017 that's what made us so great. We almost had this arrogance about us in the way we played, but in a good way. We would play on no matter what, we would move the ball fast and we were prepared to kick into the corridor at any opportunity. Yes, we may have made mistakes and turnovers along the way, but that's always going to happen if you want to play fast footy (the best sort of footy that suits our list makeup). This s**t about trying to tip toe our way around the boundary, then getting stuck int he mud, and having to roost the ball to an undersized Lynch, Tex who is best on the lead and a pathetic Jenkins.

I mean FFS we cant even get the ball into the centre of our defensive 50 arc! In '17 there was countless times where we would chip to the pocket from a kick-in, run a few handballs to make it look like we were going down the line, but then bring it back to a Matt Crouch, Sloane or etc standing in the corridor often between the D50 and centre square, and this would open up the whole ground, and more importantly force the opposition defence to shift it's zones.

I think the first step is getting stuck into Smith and Milera (less so Laird as he's also a great defender and has been tagged somewhat). I'm not sure if it's just me but those 2 are REALLY pissing me off this season. They both look like they have barely got out of first gear all season and are just loitering around the D50 looking for a cheap stat. YOU are the elite kicks, YOU have elite pace and agility, get on your god damn bike and make something happen. Smith has been bombing away all season and looks too scared to take on anything risky. Milera for all the hype and full PS of winning time trails, barely seems to be working hard enough off the ball to get into good spots and run and carry. Think I've seen him about 3-4 times in a whole season actually demand the ball and use his strengths to the benefit of the team. The rest have just been half-arsed mark kick mark kick around the back achieving nothing.

But the work rate has to lift from the whole team altogether. We all saw from the coverage in the Geelong game how much harder they were working. Again another noticeable difference from '17 was when we got the ball, the whole 22 got on their bike and pushed up the ground HARD. Lynch, Knight, Jenkins, and even Tex would work up the ground hard, leaving a lot of space for them to then double lead back into, or for the midfield to drop into pockets for that kick into the corridor. Now we have a bunch of dudes hanging out the back from the cheap switch, which never works because we dont work across the ground hard enough, and then another bunch of blokes who appear to be playing stuck in the mud down 50m down the line.

For a team that's had a relatively good PS (supposedly) with no injuries, we just arent working hard enough with and without the ball. Again going back to the same Geelong game, and even in the Hawks game, it was so evident. You could see on the coverage us attempting to switch the ball, we would be kicking from then pocket to centre and ready to go to the next pocket, but all that was ahead was 3-5 opposition players working hard across the ground, compared to about 2-3 of our blokes toiling away behind them. We just arent opening up the ground end to end, or laterally at all, and then wonder why we find ourselves so cramped up and struggling to generate clean inside 50s.

Also, our tackling seems to have gone downhill massively again to the dark, old days. I think I've seen opponents shake off Brodie Smith more times than I've seen Smith actually execute an effective kick. I saw Mark Blicavs trapped in a pocket side step god damn Lachie Murphy, who for another tough bloke with pace that's "supposed" to a good tackler and pressure player, has failed miserably and missed more tackles than he's laid imo. Even Knight who I praise for his defensive work and toughness, is tackling like an undersized school boy atm.

It's incredibly frustrating trying to defend a contest when you literally have 2/22 blokes that can lay a tackle and actually stick it, Sloane and Brouch. The fact that we had these 2 blokes reseting in the forward pocket for most of the North game, ESPECIALLY when the game wa son the line, was just ****ing bewildering. Greenwood is going to be an extremely welcome addition...

 

[mcattack]

I think amongst a bunch of smaller problems, this is the biggest thing. The other two being work rate and s**t house tackling.

In 2017 that's what made us so great. We almost had this arrogance about us in the way we played, but in a good way. We would play on no matter what, we would move the ball fast and we were prepared to kick into the corridor at any opportunity. Yes, we may have made mistakes and turnovers along the way, but that's always going to happen if you want to play fast footy (the best sort of footy that suits our list makeup). This s**t about trying to tip toe our way around the boundary, then getting stuck int he mud, and having to roost the ball to an undersized Lynch, Tex who is best on the lead and a pathetic Jenkins.

I mean FFS we cant even get the ball into the centre of our defensive 50 arc! In '17 there was countless times where we would chip to the pocket from a kick-in, run a few handballs to make it look like we were going down the line, but then bring it back to a Matt Crouch, Sloane or etc standing in the corridor often between the D50 and centre square, and this would open up the whole ground, and more importantly force the opposition defence to shift it's zones.

I think the first step is getting stuck into Smith and Milera (less so Laird as he's also a great defender and has been tagged somewhat). I'm not sure if it's just me but those 2 are REALLY pissing me off this season. They both look like they have barely got out of first gear all season and are just loitering around the D50 looking for a cheap stat. YOU are the elite kicks, YOU have elite pace and agility, get on your god damn bike and make something happen. Smith has been bombing away all season and looks too scared to take on anything risky. Milera for all the hype and full PS of winning time trails, barely seems to be working hard enough off the ball to get into good spots and run and carry. Think I've seen him about 3-4 times in a whole season actually demand the ball and use his strengths to the benefit of the team. The rest have just been half-arsed mark kick mark kick around the back achieving nothing.

But the work rate has to lift from the whole team altogether. We all saw from the coverage in the Geelong game how much harder they were working. Again another noticeable difference from '17 was when we got the ball, the whole 22 got on their bike and pushed up the ground HARD. Lynch, Knight, Jenkins, and even Tex would work up the ground hard, leaving a lot of space for them to then double lead back into, or for the midfield to drop into pockets for that kick into the corridor. Now we have a bunch of dudes hanging out the back from the cheap switch, which never works because we dont work across the ground hard enough, and then another bunch of blokes who appear to be playing stuck in the mud down 50m down the line.

For a team that's had a relatively good PS (supposedly) with no injuries, we just arent working hard enough with and without the ball. Again going back to the same Geelong game, and even in the Hawks game, it was so evident. You could see on the coverage us attempting to switch the ball, we would be kicking from then pocket to centre and ready to go to the next pocket, but all that was ahead was 3-5 opposition players working hard across the ground, compared to about 2-3 of our blokes toiling away behind them. We just arent opening up the ground end to end, or laterally at all, and then wonder why we find ourselves so cramped up and struggling to generate clean inside 50s.

Also, our tackling seems to have gone downhill massively again to the dark, old days. I think I've seen opponents shake off Brodie Smith more times than I've seen Smith actually execute an effective kick. I saw Mark Blicavs trapped in a pocket side step god damn Lachie Murphy, who for another tough bloke with pace that's "supposed" to a good tackler and pressure player, has failed miserably and missed more tackles than he's laid imo. Even Knight who I praise for his defensive work and toughness, is tackling like an undersized school boy atm.

It's incredibly frustrating trying to defend a contest when you literally have 2/22 blokes that can lay a tackle and actually stick it, Sloane and Brouch. The fact that we had these 2 blokes reseting in the forward pocket for most of the North game, ESPECIALLY when the game wa son the line, was just ****ing bewildering. Greenwood is going to be an extremely welcome addition...

I'd argue much of that is players trying to follow structures / park the bus in defence ... re Smith and Milera. Your right though whole team looks flat. Morale is a tough thing that needs to be managed. I don't know why our club is so hesitant to drop players ... thought the idea of have a B.) was so that you had to work to keep your spot.

 

[SellarStardom]

All this talk of competition for spots in the pre-season amounts to nothing if you don't drop underperforming players. We are 4 weeks in and some just aren't up to the right mark.

 

[beartoo]

We press too high. There's a lot of talk about poor delivery into the forward line, but when we get a turnover there is often no option but to go backwards or sideways as all the ball-carrier can see forward is the arses of teammates running back towards goal.
In 2017 we owned the centre corridor and most times switched play from the backlines to that corridor. This has been worked out and teams are determined to deny us the centre ground. Consequently we chip it backwards, sideways or along the boundary until we get to the desperation kick long down the line.
We need more leg speed in the side to create viable options for the bloke with ball in hand. The coaches need a rocket up the arse if they can't adjust our plan and bring in personnel to fix the problems.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

All this talk of competition for spots in the pre-season amounts to nothing if you don't drop underperforming players. We are 4 weeks in and some just aren't up to the right mark.

Exactly right

Competition for spots doesn't exist

A bloke can 'win' the competition based on an injury interrupted preseason and barely one SANFL trial game.

The competition is a sham.

 

[marty36]

Exactly right

Competition for spots doesn't exist

A bloke can 'win' the competition based on an injury interrupted preseason and barely one SANFL trial game.

The competition is a sham.

Lack of depth in the list

Quite simple answer to that

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[marvin]

1. Get Greenwood back in. He's the only midfielder who can legitimately play as a marking forward when resting.
2. Drop Jenkins. Don't bring him back until he (1) leads at the ball instead of leading straight at the boundary, and (2) shows that he is willing to put someone on their backside. Load videos of his goal against Geelong (look Josh, you played in front and good things happened) and his game against Carlton in 2017 (an angry Josh is a good Josh). And give up on the "Jenkins is the second ruck" experiment. His career high for hitouts is 13. Andy Otten had 11 in a game last year.
3. Get Milera into the midfield. He's at the same stage of his career as Bunji was when he started getting into the guts. He's got the ability to flourish in traffic, so lets use that.
4. Bring Stengle in for Murphy. Murphy has one goal and nine tackles this year. He's neither a forward nor defensive at the moment. If Stengle can bring some energy it might spark Eddie the way playing with Cameron used to.
5. Make a call on which big defender to leave out. Very few if any teams play more than 2 big forwards, and a lot go with one. We can't have Hartigan, Talia and Keath back there without being unbalanced. Kelly possibly has to be there until Luke Brown is fit (haven't seen the SANFL side, but I'm not averse to playing Sholl based on reports here).
6. Tom Lynch is supposed to be a swingman. I'd bring him into the back 6. If we are going to play triangle passing back there, I'd rather see the ball in Lynch's hands than our KPDs, and we could
7. Get AFL games into Gallucci, Fogarty and Poholke. Minimum of 5 game stints. Gallucci brings pace and aggression, Fogarty has fantastic potential, and I thought Poholke, although not yet fully convincing, at least looked like he was trying to play a natural game rather than trying to remember the team plan.
8. Get on the front foot. Time for Tex to fake it till he makes it on this one. North responded to being 0-3 by bringing in some physicality - Laird got flattened late, frequently and McDonald on Chayce Jones was a player seeing an opportunity to "make him earn it". We don't want to face suspensions, but we need a bit of snarl. Tex, Fogarty, Greenwood, unleash the Crouches, Knight with the niggle - lets act like we own the place.
9. Our zone is getting passive when they have the ball. Too much coralling and not enough actual pressure. We aren't compressing the other team's zone with our pressure.
10. Take a few chances. We are last in the league in clangers. On paper that might seem a good thing, but it's also because we are spending so much time testing the umpires' patience as to whether a kick goes 15 metres or not.