Analysis The No-Sacking, No-Cussing, How-Can-We-Improve Thread 2019

[King Elvis]

We press too high. There's a lot of talk about poor delivery into the forward line, but when we get a turnover there is often no option but to go backwards or sideways as all the ball-carrier can see forward is the arses of teammates running back towards goal.
In 2017 we owned the centre corridor and most times switched play from the backlines to that corridor. This has been worked out and teams are determined to deny us the centre ground. Consequently we chip it backwards, sideways or along the boundary until we get to the desperation kick long down the line.
We need more leg speed in the side to create viable options for the bloke with ball in hand. The coaches need a rocket up the arse if they can't adjust our plan and bring in personnel to fix the problems.

Opponents are stacking up 20-50 metres from the ball carrier.

With Smith and Milera going back into their shells, we've got no one who can get over it, so we try and go through it - and fail.

We need someone who will run 10-15 and then kick it 50; get over the defensive zone.

 

[LC40]

Our ball movement is glacial.

So many people are critical of the forwards, who would want to play in our forward line? How many inside ‘50’s did we have on Saturday? And when we did, it took a month to move it in there.

We need players to break lines, fast ball movement. All we’re doing now is letting sides sit back whilst we kick sideways, let them clog our forward 50, and allow them to hit us on the break. It’s rope a dope.

And when we get Kelly, Hartigan and Talia chipping it around the defensive 50, it’s a ticking time bomb. Get the ball into the hands of players who can run and kick, and move forward ffs.

Btw, Love Talia but he was crucified on the weekend.

And the kick ins, what the hell? Whilst we were obviously having fun in the pre season maybe we should have worked on some set kick in plays? Our kicking in has been appalling.

In short, take the game on. And if we lose, let’s go down kicking and screaming. But not like what we’ve seen so far this season, where we aren’t even trying to take the game on. Playing “keepy offies” until eventually we turn the ball over.

Don, you don’t get points for time in possession. We need to attack. Through the corridor and put defences under pressure. And give our forwards some chance. It’s not about missing McGovern or anyone who can take a pack mark, fast movement gets the ball in so we see one on one, two on two. Not 9 on 9 where Wayne Carey at his peak would struggle.

If we do that and stuff it up, at least we’re having a crack. The s**t were seeing now is unwatchable and won’t beat anyone. We’re actually beating ourselves with our incredibly slow and conservative ball movement.

We have some real talent, but look like we’re on Valium. We have the players to do far better than this.

This!

 

[tinman]

Love how the coaches can see a problem but can't make adjustments at the time.

Spot on.

Our second half on Saturday was WORSE than the first half. So if the ball movement was "too slow" what instructions were given at half time, and again at 3/4 time, given this got progressively worse as the game went on?

Did the players not follow instructions? Or were the coaches not capable of seeing the train wreck that we all saw?

It's one or the other.

At the moment we're being comprehensively out coached. We are way, way better than what we're dishing up at the minute. The coaches absolutely have to be on notice.

 

[Cap]

Spot on.

Our second half on Saturday was WORSE than the first half. So if the ball movement was "too slow" what instructions were given at half time, and again at 3/4 time, given this got progressively worse as the game went on?

Did the players not follow instructions? Or were the coaches not capable of seeing the train wreck that we all saw?

It's one or the other.

At the moment we're being comprehensively out coached. We are way, way better than what we're dishing up at the minute. The coaches absolutely have to be on notice.

I thought it was interesting that Campo thought the players over corrected and then the lack of runners stopped them being able to tell the players in real time.

Sounds like troubling times in the coaches box.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I thought it was interesting that Campo thought the players over corrected and then the lack of runners stopped them being able to tell the players in real time.

Sounds like troubling times in the coaches box.

To be fair to Campo, it is unfair that we can't have runners but our opponents can

 

[tinman]

Heard Blighty tonight whilst driving . Couple of points raised.
A- Not taking advantage of new kick in rule.
B -- new 666 rule is what's required to help open up game and he wants a coach not to be a lamb and have you know what and open up game and play 1 on 1 and will get rewards and see better gams.
C. -- Hates kicking back and wants rule kicking back in defence is play on.
D -- Says our forwards don't have much opportunity to shine as taking too long to get in there missing leads and generally so congested Walker always has 2 players on.
E -- Very emphatic on this one -- Ruck Jenkins or dump him.

Look I love Blighty and pretty much agree with A, B and D.

I appreciate where he's coming from with C but more rule changes? To address the problems brought about by the rule changes? (All 2019 games are a poor spectacle). So I can't agree with this.

And if you agree with D, which I do, you have to see that Jenkins is impacted by the ball movement and congestion just like Tex is. Where I do agree is that if we persist with the same rubbish game plan we have now, there's no point in having any tall forwards in our forward line, just find a 210cm+ monster to put up there that can't mark, just to create a contest and stop a defensive mark. But I'd rather we ditch the current game plan and take the game on. Which is what Blighty's saying with B.

So to be fair, C ain't happening until next season (if ever). So let's do A, B and D now, before we look at E.

Malcolm Blight absolute legend BTW.

 

[Cap]

To be fair to Campo, it is unfair that we can't have runners but our opponents can

, did he go to the match? Starting to wonder.

 

[Scorpus]

I thought it was interesting that Campo thought the players over corrected and then the lack of runners stopped them being able to tell the players in real time.

Sounds like troubling times in the coaches box.

If only the coaches had known about the new runner rule prior to the season and had six months to come up with strategies for communicating messages...

 

[jackster83]

I thought it was interesting that Campo thought the players over corrected and then the lack of runners stopped them being able to tell the players in real time.

Sounds like troubling times in the coaches box.

I would have thought they had plenty of opportunities to get a runner out there in the third term.

 

[King Elvis]

If only they could tell the players when they do a bloody interchange!!

"Sloaney, get back out there and tell the guys to move the ball on quicker!"

We don't need a bloody runner to pass on those simple instructions, ffs sakes.

 

[tinman]

I thought it was interesting that Campo thought the players over corrected and then the lack of runners stopped them being able to tell the players in real time.

Sounds like troubling times in the coaches box.

I suppose that when the runners are only allowed on field after a goal, and you only manage two in a half of football at the Dome, under a roof, that there might be problems getting messages to players.

Can someone tell Campo and Pykey that the runners are allowed on when the opposition kicks goals too? 'Cos I saw a fair bit of that happening and no adjustments?

Every club has to deal with the new runners rules. And yeah, the players "over corrected".

When do the coaches stand up and say "we're getting it wrong?"

Blind Freddie can see we're better than this. We don't have an ordinary list. We actually have a really talented list.

Underperforming.

And that is on the coaches.

It is on them to turn this around, and if they can't, ship them out.

I'm happy to see us have a crack and lose if we're beaten by a better team. But the game we're currently playing we may as well run the white flag up

 

[mcattack]

If only they could tell the players when they do a bloody interchange!!

"Sloaney, get back out there and tell the guys to move the ball on quicker!"

We don't need a bloody runner to pass on those simple instructions, ffs sakes.

But then they wouldn't be able to blame the system ... only one step removed from coaches then.

 

[WetCrow1991]

If only they could tell the players when they do a bloody interchange!!

"Sloaney, get back out there and tell the guys to move the ball on quicker!"

We don't need a bloody runner to pass on those simple instructions, ffs sakes.

Yeah at any time there is at least 1 player avoiding the contest, just get them to go around and update everyone.

 

[King Elvis]

Maybe that's JJ's role this year? Runner?

 

[Bender20]

Get on the training track and do drill after drill after drill on kicking into the forward 50. Do it time and time again until they get it right. If they could do this, we would have already had at least 2 wins.

They train ?

 

[MRB37]

One thing that does bother me about these talk show hosts, they always talk about our team in 2017 and say how we don't/can't play like that anymore and have no plan B outside of that, which totally ignores the point that we don't try and play like 2017 anymore. We play a very controlled, methodical, short kicking game now, rather than the slingshot rebound style we had in 2017.

The actual problem may not even by the style, but the fact they've refused to change players to suit the new style. Yes, JJ works great in the slingshot when he can use him speed, but now we need an contested marker when we go down the line. Yes, Atkins worked great when he could run all day, now we need someone who can move the ball cleanly by foot consistently and has some defensive pressure when he doesn't have it. When the style of game changes you often need to change the guys you have playing it. Pushing the same group of guys who were perfect for one style doesn't mean they'll instantly work with another

It's no surprise that someone like Milera continues to be one our best cause he fits the style perfectly. I'm not sure if many other of our current 22 do though.

 

[Rave Slave]

How can we improve without sacking anyone or swearing?

Close the doors, turn off the lights and walk away.

 

[mcattack]

One thing that does bother me about these talk show hosts, they always talk about our team in 2017 and say how we don't/can't play like that anymore and have no plan B outside of that, which totally ignores the point that we don't try and play like 2017 anymore. We play a very controlled, methodical, short kicking game now, rather than the slingshot rebound style we had in 2017.

The actual problem may not even by the style, but the fact they've refused to change players to suit the new style. Yes, JJ works great in the slingshot when he can use him speed, but now we need an contested marker when we go down the line. Yes, Atkins worked great when he could run all day, now we need someone who can move the ball cleanly by foot consistently and has some defensive pressure when he doesn't have it. When the style of game changes you often need to change the guys you have playing it. Pushing the same group of guys who were perfect for one style doesn't mean they'll instantly work with another

It's no surprise that someone like Milera continues to be one our best cause he fits the style perfectly. I'm not sure if many other of our current 22 do though.

I agree with you Jenkins loves free play and getting the ball out the back. Hates contested footy and rucking. Milera is a class player that could fit into any team. I think plan b, kick sideways and flood defence, comes out when opposition's set up where they know roughly where our players kick / distance and who who are going to kick to. We are predicatable. Then we turn it over and get caught pressing like lemmings. Maybe they should try to play someone closer to goals instead of dropping so deep. Richmond. Geelong. Hawks. North they have our game plan down.

 

[Cap]

So its Tuesday night selection is Thursday

I assume that means they've started their long nights.

What do you think is being discussed?

Do you think we will see minor tweak or a significant adjustment? Any guesses?

 

[Pea Nut]

I went and watched some replays of games from 2016 and 2017 and then watched the replay of the North game just for comparisons sake. When we win the ball back in the defensive half of the ground and especially in our defensive 50, teams are defending against us by rolling up the zone really high and tightening it by closing off the short kick options forward of the ball carrier, which is why we have been pushed wide and constantly had the ball in the hands of Talia, Hartigan and Kelly switching from side to side. When we do take on that short kick forward that tight zone more often than not closes down on the player the ball had been kicked to, forces a spillage and then the opposition swarm our player attempting to contest the ground ball with numbers, beat us with weight of numbers and take off forward and go with speed in to open space.

When we are defending, teams are doing to us what we did to them in 2017. We roll back our zone and teams run and carry and go forward with ease, and we've got numbers going back structurally but lack any sort of genuine pressure on the ball carrier in many scenarios and the pressure then falls back on our defensive 6/7. It's where the loss of Doedee is huge. I wish I knew how to upload photos and short videos to show visually what I mean, but I don't know how to do that. But we need significant change to the way we are playing.

The quotes that we went too quickly against Geelong are mind boggling. We didn't go quick enough in my opinion. We need to release the shackles, run in numbers, overlap handball and take the game on more, not less. I'm not convinced our coaches are willing to make this type of radical change, so with some personnel changes we might be more competitive in games, but we are going to find it difficult to score and will be scored against at ease at times. It could be a frustrating run of games up until the bye.

 

[jackster83]

So its Tuesday night selection is Thursday

I assume that means they've started their long nights.

What do you think is being discussed?

 

[tinman]

I went and watched some replays of games from 2016 and 2017 and then watched the replay of the North game just for comparisons sake. Teams are defending against us now when we get the ball in our back half by rolling up the zone really high and tightening it by closing off the short kick options forward of the ball carrier, which is why we have been pushed wide and constantly had the ball in the hands of Talia, Hartigan and Kelly switching from side to side. When we do take on that short kick forward that tight zone more often than not closes down on the player the ball had been kicked to, forces a spillage and then the opposition swarm our player attempting to contest the ground ball with numbers, beat us with weight of numbers and take off forward and go with speed in to open space.

When we are defending, teams are doing to us what we did to them in 2017. We roll back our zone and teams run and carry and go forward with ease, and we've got numbers going back structurally but lack any sort of genuine pressure on the ball carrier in many scenarios and the pressure then falls back on our defensive 6/7. It's where the loss of Doedee is huge. I wish I knew how to upload photos and short videos to show visually what I mean, but I don't know how to do that. But we need significant change to the way we are playing.

The quotes that we went too quickly against Geelong are mind boggling. We didn't go quick enough in my opinion. We need to release the shackles, run in numbers, overlap handball and take the game on more, not less. I'm not convinced our coaches are willing to make this type of radical change, so with some personnel changes we might be more competitive in games, but we are going to find it difficult to score and will be scored against at ease at times. It could be a frustrating run of games up until the bye.

This exactly. It isn’t rocket science.

Football isn’t a complex game. After all it’s played by footballers.

Videos. Analysis. Statistics.

Why can’t the coaches see this?

 

[Pea Nut]

This exactly. It isn’t rocket science.

Football isn’t a complex game. After all it’s played by footballers.

Videos. Analysis. Statistics.

Why can’t the coaches see this?

I'm sure that at times the coaches are so invested that they can't see the forest for the trees. Or maybe it's because the bulk of the coaches are ex-players and aren't as bright as you'd hope or expect ?? We really need to see significant change in the next few weeks for me to not entirely give up on this season. Which is kind of shattering considering we've only played 4 games.

 

[Sanders]

Who says you can't define the type of conversation you would like in a thread? We have NO OPPOSITION threads. Just show some damned respect.

The OP (or you) has no authority over what can be discussed

In fact you would do well to remember how little content you provide yourself before trying to limit what others can talk about

This quasi censorship thing is not cool.

 

[Sanders]

This thread is well and good. We can all know what needs to be done but the current coaching group is devoid of any creativity and will not change. If you think there will be any success while Pyke and Campo are in charge of coaching and Roo and Burton are in charge of list management think again. These are the men that signed Jenkins to a 5 year deal. These are the men that gave up 2 first round picks for Bryce Gibbs. Lol. These are the men who signed Walker, Betts and Lynch to ridiculous inflated contracts. These are the men who have wasted numerous first round draft picks over the last 2 years due to their sheer arrogance. These are the men who sat back and allowed our young guns walk out the door. FMD. Keep ignoring the real problem. You will here in 2 years time debating the same inane subject of why we aren't successful while defending the club. Not all but most. These 4 men along with Chapman have completely mismanaged our club since the previous coach sadly departed. What they have done to the club is disgusting. As far as I am concerned they can go and get ******.

Y U no paragraph?