Opposition Camp The Non-North Footy Discussion & Matchday Chat Thread: Edition V

ferball

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Alcohol and energy drinks like red bull cause more fights than illegal drugs. They are both legal.
I've come to the conclusion that the only reason party drugs are illegal is to keep prices and profit margins high.
Heroin is illegal for similar reasons plus the bonus of vulnerable addicts with psychological problems which is a great thing for the Epstein's of this world.
But this is probably the wrong thread for that.
 

JeanLucGoddard

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Alcohol and energy drinks like red bull cause more fights than illegal drugs. They are both legal.
I've come to the conclusion that the only reason party drugs are illegal is to keep prices and profit margins high.
Heroin is illegal for similar reasons plus the bonus of vulnerable addicts with psychological problems which is a great thing for the Epstein's of this world.
But this is probably the wrong thread for that.
Exactly it.
 

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Groin guru

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Alcohol and energy drinks like red bull cause more fights than illegal drugs. They are both legal.
lol that is very hard to compare and a ridiculous thing to say. Massive reach.

How many people drink those two vs. partake in illegal drugs? Energy drinks with caffeine do not belong in the same conversation. You need 400mg of caffeine to potentially cause issues. You'd have to match up the numbers and even then how do you compare 10 beers vs. some heroin? You can't because it's hard enough to get ethics approval for alcohol and caffeine let alone other drugs. It's why marijuana testing is so slow - too much red tape and a lot of questions unanswered.

Another difference is both are under strict control. You know where they are coming from. OH&S is present. Can the same be said from your local drug dealer? :drunk:

Alcohol is fine in moderation. It's up to the individual to not go full-garner/Lmac and start acting like an idiot. That's not the alcohol companies issue. It's a stupidity issue. I wouldn't give two shits if they banned alcohol either. There'd definitely be fewer idiots around, reduced medical costs, and less depression etc. "but you need to drink to have fun" - spare me. If you can't have fun after water with a slice of lemon it says more about your personality than anything else.
 

ferball

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lol that is very hard to compare and a ridiculous thing to say. Massive reach.

How many people drink those two vs. partake in illegal drugs? Energy drinks with caffeine do not belong in the same conversation. You need 400mg of caffeine to potentially cause issues. You'd have to match up the numbers and even then how do you compare 10 beers vs. some heroin? You can't because it's hard enough to get ethics approval for alcohol and caffeine let alone other drugs. It's why marijuana testing is so slow - too much red tape and a lot of questions unanswered.

Another difference is both are under strict control. You know where they are coming from. OH&S is present. Can the same be said from your local drug dealer? :drunk:

Alcohol is fine in moderation. It's up to the individual to not go full-garner/Lmac and start acting like an idiot. That's not the alcohol companies issue. It's a stupidity issue. I wouldn't give two shits if they banned alcohol either. There'd definitely be fewer idiots around, reduced medical costs, and less depression etc. "but you need to drink to have fun" - spare me. If you can't have fun after water with a slice of lemon it says more about your personality than anything else.
Ask ambulance officers whether its drunks on ice or drunks on red bull who cause the most hassle. Count the number of fights, count the drugs compare the numbers and then jam your stats bullshit up your clacker.

Heroin and violence are not related. Give a junkie heroin and they'll be the most non violent person on earth. Don't give a junkie heroin and they'll just moan and whine alot in the hope you'll change your mind and give them some (or the money for it.) People with ADHD may be an exception to this.
 

Groin guru

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Ask ambulance officers whether its drunks on ice or drunks on red bull who cause the most hassle. Count the number of fights, count the drugs compare the numbers and then jam your stats bullshit up your clacker.
No worries. I'll just crash my bike into a car so I can speak to some.

Quick question, do you have shares in 'Anecdotal evidence'? because you use it that often anyone would think you're getting paid to try and move it up the hierarchy of evidence. The "fu** you, I know someone" data...

PepeYikes.png
 

Bigeasy

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Can someone explain why Melbourne are touted to pick Luke Jackson when they have Gawn and recruited Preuss last year. Not convinced he will make it as a pure kpf.
 

krakouers85

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Can someone explain why Melbourne are touted to pick Luke Jackson when they have Gawn and recruited Preuss last year. Not convinced he will make it as a pure kpf.
Simple maths for the media, 2+2=6
Damien Barrett
Aliens... wait, actually that makes sense..
the reasons so eloquently described by the guys above? Alcohol, Drugs, Redbull, Red Cordial
Gawn is a ruck, Pruess is a ruck, why not have three?
 

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JeanLucGoddard

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Ask ambulance officers whether its drunks on ice or drunks on red bull who cause the most hassle. Count the number of fights, count the drugs compare the numbers and then jam your stats bullshit up your clacker.

Heroin and violence are not related. Give a junkie heroin and they'll be the most non violent person on earth. Don't give a junkie heroin and they'll just moan and whine alot in the hope you'll change your mind and give them some (or the money for it.) People with ADHD may be an exception to this.
A popular drink in Scotland and Northern Ireland is Buckfast. Cheap wine with more caffeine than Red Bull. Floggo has no idea what he is talking about, as usual.

It is a hugely dangerous combo.

New evidence linking Buckfast Tonic Wine to crime has been uncovered by a BBC Scotland investigation.
A Freedom of Information request showed the drink was mentioned in 5,638 crime reports in Strathclyde from 2006-2009, equating to three a day on average.

One in 10 of those offences were violent and the bottle was used as a weapon 114 times in that period.

Buckfast's distributors denied that it caused crime and said the drink made up just 0.5% of Scotland's alcohol market.

However, Strathclyde Police said the figures suggested there was an association between the tonic wine and violence.

Supt Bob Hamilton said: "I think it's clear from the figures that there is an association there."

"The figures are fairly clear that Buckfast is mentioned in a number of crime reports and over the period requested, the Buckfast bottle was used 114 times as a weapon."

The evidence from Strathclyde Police appears to back up concerns raised by research conducted in Polmont Young Offenders Institution in 2007.

It found that - of those offenders who had been drinking immediately before their offence - more than 40% had been drinking Buckfast.

The drink is produced by Benedictine monks in a Devon monastery.

The BBC investigation looked at its ingredients and how it may affect the behaviour of consumers.

Neuroscientist Dr Steven Alexander from Nottingham University said each bottle contained 281mg of caffeine - the same amount as eight cans of coke.

He said consuming large amounts of caffeine would make people feel "very anxious and aggressive".
 

ferball

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No worries. I'll just crash my bike into a car so I can speak to some.

Quick question, do you have shares in 'Anecdotal evidence'? because you use it that often anyone would think you're getting paid to try and move it up the hierarchy of evidence. The "fu** you, I know someone" data...

View attachment 784240
news flash. Not everything in the world is subject to rigorous scientific testing or data collection. The world is too big.

I'm more than capable of making observations and applying them to reality. I don't need to consult some academic journal before I think about something.

Unlike some of us obviously.

I know a few ambos and when every one of them says they are more cautious around alcohol affected people if its suspected they've been drinking energy drinks as well that suggests there is something going on there. They aren't idiots and they debrief situations and generate SOPs for them all the time. When everyone in my small sample size has the same caution then perhaps its worth acknowledging and investigating further instead of being a modern day Lavoisier about it.

Anecdotal evidence has been around for years and as a result some people started taking notice.

Its a bit fishy but its a start...

 

Snake_Baker

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Thats interesting cos alot of what you post seems in complete opposition to the themes of that record, other jello stuff with a variety of bands and in many ways the whole ethos of the mentality that produced it.
You have identified that I am not a group consensus thinker, and I can understand why you think this is unusual.
 

ferball

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You have identified that I am not a group consensus thinker, and I can understand why you think this is unusual.
No... not that. Although you do have an ODD thing going on with other people's opinions.

Seriously who gives a fu** what other people think? Ideas should be evaluated on their merits and in relation to their effectiveness in real world situations.

Other people's opinions and whether an idea is consensus accepted or not is irrelevent.

Sometimes I think you miss this in your hurry to take contrarian positions. (Which are by definition, controlled by the positions they are being contrary to.)
 

Groin guru

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news flash. Not everything in the world is subject to rigorous scientific testing or data collection. The world is too big.

I'm more than capable of making observations and applying them to reality. I don't need to consult some academic journal before I think about something.

Unlike some of us obviously.

I know a few ambos and when every one of them says they are more cautious around alcohol affected people if its suspected they've been drinking energy drinks as well that suggests there is something going on there. They aren't idiots and they debrief situations and generate SOPs for them all the time. When everyone in my small sample size has the same caution then perhaps its worth acknowledging and investigating further instead of being a modern day Lavoisier about it.

Anecdotal evidence has been around for years and as a result some people started taking notice.

Its a bit fishy but its a start...

so it's an issue of how much they've consumed not the drinks themselves. They are drugs. They have recommendations for a reason. You go over them by a fair margin and you're going to have issue.

lol. I don't make up my mind via hearsay. I prefer to use logic and form my own opinions. If I am listening to someone's stories I might do my own digging and then form my own opinion. It's really not hard. You can't say that I only use scientific evidence to form my opinions and then say you form yours through mates :drunk:.

I never said they were idiots (here you go on your usual rant that I've apparently attacked a profession - You can't attack points on merit so you go with cheap tactics). You said an increased amount. I said you can't say that because of the numbers: alcohol and/or caffeine >>>> Illicit drugs. Come back to me with an 'x in 1000' so they are equal. Until that time I take your hearsay with a pinch of salt because that's how much it's worth. Take it up with those that rank evidence.

At the end of the day, this all stemmed from athletes. My stance is no illicit drugs for athletes. I would ban alcohol during competition and pre-season. I would ban caffeine drinks and only give them caffeine in pill form. They want drugs or alcohol (in season) -> there's the door. Plenty of other footballers that want a shot and willing to do everything in their power to make it.

Your stance is: nah...freedom...they aren't slaves...they can do what they want. :$
 
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ferball

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Your stance is: nah...freedom...they aren't slaves...they can do what they want. :$
I actually agree with this. Its not the performance enhancing aspects of illicit drug use that are the issue its the way they can potentially degrade an elite athletes performance. Maybe its not an issue but how would you tell?

Off season I don't care so much tho. But if you aren't up to standard and party out of season instead of doing the work you need to then it might catch up with you.
In response to KC saying this.

The whole "they're just boys" thing is a bit farcical at times.

It's an elite sport. I doubt you get into the Russian gymnastic team or Chelsea's youth program then willingly piss it up (literally) doing anything that compromises your ability to train and recover to your limits.

Granted the kids enter the system young at 17/18+ but if they're unwilling to knowingly make the sacrifice to play elite sport and be very well compensated, there's a dozen mega-driven Tom Scully or Brent Harvey "living athletes" willing to take their opportunity from them.

So once again you've either outright lied about what I said or are incapable of comprehending it, which augers well for your future publication efforts.

I didn't read the rest of your comment. It was literally iliterate. Go back and edit it so it makes some sort of sense.
 

ferball

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so it's an issue of how much they've consumed not the drinks themselves. They are drugs. They have recommendations for a reason. You go over them by a fair margin and you're going to have issue.
This is why piss troughs were invented yes?

lol. I don't make up my mind via hearsay. I prefer to use logic and form my own opinions. If I am listening to someone's stories I might do my own digging and then form my own opinion. It's really not hard. You can't say that I never scientific evidence to form my opinions and then say you form yours through mates :drunk:.
I can say what I want captain freedom of speech. Appropriate choice of smiley tho given the sentence preceding it.

I never said they were idiots (here you go on your usual rant that I've apparently attacked a profession - You can't attack points on merit so you go with cheap tactics). You said an increased amount. I said you can't say that because of the numbers: alcohol and/or caffeine >>>> Illicit drugs. Come back to me with an 'x in 1000' so they are equal. Until that time I take your hearsay with a pinch of salt because that's how much it's worth. Take it up with those that rank evidence.
Alcohol and energy drinks like red bull cause more fights than illegal drugs. They are both legal.

I didn't say proportionally they cause more fights or per unit use per head of population or whatever else. On raw numbers alone they cause more fights. Who cares about proportions? Seriously... you are so busy trying to sound smart you end up looking stupid.

At the end of the day, this all stemmed from athletes. My stance is no illicit drugs for athletes. I would ban alcohol during competition and pre-season. I would ban caffeine drinks and only give them caffeine in pill form. They want drugs or alcohol (in season) -> there's the door. Plenty of other footballers that want a shot and willing to do everything in their power to make it.
You'd sack a player if they had a cup of tea.

Nice one Mr Logic.
 

Groin guru

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In response to KC saying this.

So once again you've either outright lied about what I said or are incapable of comprehending it, which augers well for your future publication efforts.
So you're a puritanical campaigner who thinks what other people do in their private lives is somehow some of his business.
I really only care that our players aren't too drug f’ed to perform at their best.
Who can keep up when you contradict yourself at every turn :drunk:
I can say what I want captain freedom of speech. Appropriate choice of smiley tho given the sentence preceding it.
You're not worth the effort. I'll save editing for those worthy of intellectual discussion.
Alcohol and energy drinks like red bull cause more fights than illegal drugs. They are both legal.

I didn't say proportionally they cause more fights or per unit use per head of population or whatever else. On raw numbers alone they cause more fights. Who cares about proportions? Seriously... you are so busy trying to sound smart you end up looking stupid.
I care because you suggested they are worse. They aren't worse. They're just easier to get. So you're wrong.
You'd sack a player if they had a cup of tea.

Nice one Mr Logic.
Now who is a smart arse?

Tea doesn't have 27.5g of sugar per 250mL (if they are putting in that much they can go sit down with the club dietitian and get told off there). Plus the whole purpose of a caffeine tablet is you can control the mg of caffeine the athlete is consuming (3-6mg per kg/BW is the recommended from memory). It is variable in tea or coffee. Easier to give Majak 3 no doz vs. 10 cups of tea a day.
 

ferball

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Who can keep up when you contradict yourself at every turn :drunk:
I was specific about our players jeopardising their opportunities to perform at their best. The rest of it is none of my business.

I care because you suggested they are worse. They aren't worse. They're just easier to get. So you're wrong.
I said they cause more fights. That is all. They do.

You are the one making emotional moral judgements with terms like "worse". I am just stating facts. But I dunno how much easier to get they are to get (booze and energy drinks that is.) Drugs are everywhere. If people want them they will get them.

Now who is a smart arse?

Tea doesn't have 27.5g of sugar per 250mL (if they are putting in that much they can go sit down with the club dietitian and get told off there). Plus the whole purpose of a caffeine tablet is you can control the mg of caffeine the athlete is consuming (3-6mg per kg/BW is the recommended from memory). It is variable in tea or coffee. Easier to give Majak 3 no doz vs. 10 cups of tea a day.
I would ban caffeine drinks and only give them caffeine in pill form. They want drugs or alcohol (in season) -> there's the door.

You said you would ban caffeine drinks and make the players take pills. If they didn't like it they were out the door. Coffee and tea are caffeine drinks. Caffeine is a drug.

So here we have you arguing with me on the basis of something I didn't say then arguing with me on the basis of something you didn't say after I questioned what you actually said.

Maybe 90% of the arguments you have with me would be avoided if you took the time and care to read what was actually said instead of what your preconceptions think should have been said so you can win an argument and type what you actually mean instead of something vaguely resembling it in a few places.:thumbsu:
 

ferball

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A popular drink in Scotland and Northern Ireland is Buckfast. Cheap wine with more caffeine than Red Bull. Floggo has no idea what he is talking about, as usual.

It is a hugely dangerous combo.



That's wrong because of reasons. And I'm sure they are.


Reasons that is...

Or something.

Its an example of people wanting something so badly (me being wrong in this case) they mistake their desire for reality.
 

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