Rumour The North Ultimatum

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Roylion

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Oct 17, 2000
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What does North Melbourne offer to the AFL?

A parasite is defined as an organism living within another organism in order to obtain nutrients, often in a state that directly or indirectly harms the host, or alternatively, something that resembles a biological parasite in the sense of living off, being dependent or, or exploiting another organism while giving little or nothing in return.

Sounds like North Melbourne to me.
From the writer of the article...
"It is not a serious article. Come on, you’ve read my serious articles on the cricket tab.

This isn’t one. It was punched out in the space of about 45 mins last night as a joke to Liam’s non-comments around North."
 

bjwilliams

Team Captain
Apr 6, 2015
535
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Want to know why Carlton and Essendon continually get round 1/ANZAC day respectively. Just try getting a ticket to either game. I know plenty of non supporters that go along to those games because they know the show it will put on.
2021 - Richmond won by 25
2020 - Richmond won by 24
2019 - Richmond won by 33
2018 - Richmond won by 26
2017 - Richmond won by 43
2016 - Richmond won by 9
2015 - Richmond won by 27

Where's this show Carlton are putting on?

There is zero reason they should have this game in the fixture.
 
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PonsfordMagpie

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Kevin Sheedy would say yes.

What are the Collingwood vs Essendon crowds like when they play the alternate game each year?
2019 = 85,405
2018 = 69,868
2017 = 63,537
2015 = 40,270
2014 = 58,996
2013 = 69,821
2012 = 56,491
2011 = 73,163
2010 = 59,277
2009 = 77,699
2008 = 64,785
2007 = 65,531
2006 = 62,940
2005 = 52,507
2004 = 52,983
2003 = 68,381
2002 = 69,613
2001 = 71,518
2000 = 66,122
1999 = 56,129
1998 = 64,480
1997 = 50,944
1996 = 51,057
1995 = 77,448

All crowds have been above 50,000+ except for 2015.

<50k = 1
50-59k = 8
60-69k = 10
70-79k = 4
>80k = 1
 

HairyO

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 13, 2015
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2019 = 85,405
2018 = 69,868
2017 = 63,537
2015 = 40,270
2014 = 58,996
2013 = 69,821
2012 = 56,491
2011 = 73,163
2010 = 59,277
2009 = 77,699
2008 = 64,785
2007 = 65,531
2006 = 62,940
2005 = 52,507
2004 = 52,983
2003 = 68,381
2002 = 69,613
2001 = 71,518
2000 = 66,122
1999 = 56,129
1998 = 64,480
1997 = 50,944
1996 = 51,057
1995 = 77,448

All crowds have been above 50,000+ except for 2015.

<50k = 1
50-59k = 8
60-69k = 10
70-79k = 4
>80k = 1
But the sellouts have been the ANZAC Day games each year.

Cheers.
 

brutus76

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Jul 26, 2016
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Sheeds was the architect - not the Pies

Kevin Sheedy had the idea, went to Bruce Ruxton then President of the RSL to approach, plan, propose and make the deal with the RSL and AFL.

That other racist President Alan McAlister was just there in an official capacity - didn't do any of the legwork (planning or logistics) or contribute
 

Original Moody Blue

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Fitzroy could have survived and prospered with a bit of AFL aid that has been extended to other Melbourne based clubs, through their "Competitive Balance Fund" such as the Western Bulldogs, Melbourne and North Melbourne.

Fitzroy in 1992-93 was a very competitive side. Crowds of 50,000 and above for some Fitzroy games in 1992 and 1993, as well as crowds of above 25,000 for pre-season games showed that the club could attract spectators, if competitive. The club actually made a profit in 1993, they'd finally got a social club that was making money through the Fitzroy Club Hotel (purchased in March 1992) and were making plans to return to the Brunswick Street Oval (just up the road from the Fitzroy Club Hotel) as a training and administration base. The club had actually gained approval from the Council in 1992 to do just that, but just couldn't find the spare $250,000 to renovate the old heritage grandstand and build a modern gymnasium over the existing community rooms.

However they felt that couldn't compete on an on-going basis with some of the other clubs. For example the ANZAC Day game alone netted Essendon and Collingwood more revenue than Fitzroy would receive in a season. By 1994 Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood were running on a turnover of 11-12 million compared to Fitzroy's $5 million. The large clubs received $1 million in gate receipts compared to Fitzroy's $300,000 and obviously due to their far larger membership were making at least a million dollars more from membership.

Fitzroy would have never sought a merger if they could have secured an extra $1 million in funding - $0.5 million to return to the Brunswick Street Oval and upgrade the faciliites (agreed deal already successfully negotiated with the existing Fitzroy local council) and $0.5 million to attract players to make the club more competitive onfield. Nauru had agreed to lend a further $500,000 but when the government of Nauru was changed at the end of November 1995, the offer was withdrawn.

Fitzroy was $2.7 million in debt, of which $1.25 million was to one secured creditor. (Nauru). The Fitzroy debt of $1.25 million to the Nauru Insurance Company wasn't due to be paid back until 2001 and Fitzroy were meeting the repayments.

So $1 million was the requirement to keep Fitzroy in the competition and yet the same year the AFL was prepared to shell out $12 million for two mergers (North-Fitzroy and Melb/Haw).
They would have paid off the debt, and then been in a far worst debt 10years later. Face facts, the Lions did not have the supporters to keep them going.
North will be next as their base starts to drop away...
 

Roylion

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They would have paid off the debt, and then been in a far worst debt 10years later.
No they wouldn't necessarily have been

Since 2002, other Melbourne based clubs have received tens of millions of dollars from the Competitive Balance Fund and other AFL sources.

Between 2002-2009 the following clubs received extra funds
Western Bulldogs - $8.4 million
North Melbourne - $5.8 million
Melbourne - $5.25 million
Carlton - $2.1 million

Had Fitzroy received the same amount of money they would have
1. have paid off their only secured creditor - Nauru - to whom they owed $1.25 million - which meant an administrator would not have been appointed
2. have redeveloped Brunswick Street Oval as a permanent training base. (As i already said, this step already had the approval of the Fitzroy Council and needed $250,000 to bring it to fruition).
3. have paid 100% of the cap - thereby being able to retain their drafted and traded players and remain competitive.
4. have developed their recruiting zone out Balwyn and Doncaster way, thereby developing a significant supporter base and increasing their membership (particularly if they were competitive).

With more income they could have retained the best from their existing 1995-1996 list and started rebuilding their list through the draft (Michael Gardiner, Travis Johnstone - grandson of Fitzroy champ Norm), priority picks in 1997 and 1998 (Chris Heffernan, Luke Power) and trading from other clubs.

Fitzroy 1998 might have looked something like:

B: Chris Johnson, Stephen Paxman, Rowan Warfe
HB: Simon Hawking, Cameron Mooney, John Barker
C: Travis Johnstone, Simon Atkins, Scott Bamford
HF: Shane Clayton, Jarrod Molloy, John Rombotis,
F: Luke Power, Anthony Mellington, Darren Whieldon
R: Matthew Primus, Brad Boyd, Chris Heffernan
I: Michael Gardiner, Jason Baldwin, Brett Chandler, John McCarthy,

Em: Jim Wynd, Mark Zanotti,


North will be next as their base starts to drop away...
They've been saying that since 2001 when I joined this site. Twenty years later....

So I doubt it. North Melbourne now are in a far better position than Fitzroy were in 1996. On a whole number of fronts.
 
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Original Moody Blue

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No they wouldn't necessarily have been

Since 2002, other Melbourne based clubs have received tens of millions of dollars from the Competitive Balance Fund and other AFL sources.

Between 2002-2009 the following clubs received extra funds
Western Bulldogs - $8.4 million
North Melbourne - $5.8 million
Melbourne - $5.25 million
Carlton - $2.1 million

Had Fitzroy received the same amount of money they would have
1. have paid off their only secured creditor - Nauru - to whom they owed $1.25 million - which meant an administrator would not have been appointed
2. have redeveloped Brunswick Street Oval as a permanent training base. (As i already said, this step already had the approval of the Fitzroy Council and needed $250,000 to bring it to fruition).
3. have paid 100% of the cap - thereby being able to retain their drafted and traded players and remain competitive.
4. have developed their recruiting zone out Balwyn and Doncaster way, thereby developing a significant supporter base and increasing their membership (particularly if they were competitive).

With more income they could have retained the best from their existing 1995-1996 list and started rebuilding their list through the draft (Michael Gardiner, Travis Johnstone - grandson of Fitzroy champ Norm), priority picks in 1997 and 1998 (Chris Heffernan, Luke Power) and trading from other clubs.

Fitzroy 1998 might have looked something like:

B: Chris Johnson, Stephen Paxman, Rowan Warfe
HB: Simon Hawking, Cameron Mooney, John Barker
C: Travis Johnstone, Simon Atkins, Scott Bamford
HF: Shane Clayton, Jarrod Molloy, John Rombotis,
F: Luke Power, Anthony Mellington, Darren Whieldon
R: Matthew Primus, Brad Boyd, Chris Heffernan
I: Michael Gardiner, Jason Baldwin, Brett Chandler, John McCarthy,

Em: Jim Wynd, Mark Zanotti,




They've been saying that since 2001 when I joined this site. Twenty years later....

So I doubt it. North Melbourne now are in a far better position than Fitzroy were in 1996. On a whole number of fronts.
But you are still missing the point. Fitzroy had no supporter base so they would have been in the same financial position a few years later. North is quickly heading that way as they rebuild for the next 6-10 years. Potential number #1 drafts picks (especially if they are from interstate) will be waiting for their 2 years to end so they can move back..
 

Roylion

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But you are still missing the point. Fitzroy had no supporter base so they would have been in the same financial position a few years later.
A Roy Morgan poll conducted in the eighties suggested Fitzroy had a support base of 200,000. In 1981, (when they were at the Junction Oval) they had the fourth highest membership of any VFL club. What Fitzroy had little of in the last few years of their AFL presence was paid up members. As I said when Fitzroy was competitive they could draw crowds. Unfortunately in those years. Fitzroy received little if any revenue from their ground sharing arrangement with Carlton. Unlike the Junction Oval.

North is quickly heading that way as they rebuild for the next 6-10 years.
I wouldn't be writing North off. People on this site have been predicting North's demise for twenty years. If anything North are stronger off the field now that at any time in the last twenty years.

Potential number #1 drafts picks (especially if they are from interstate) will be waiting for their 2 years to end so they can move back..
You're over-stating it. Arden Street is fast becoming the equal of most football club facilities in the AFL and I don't see any reason why high draft picks that end up at North, would be clamouring to get out of North Melbourne to play elsewhere. State of the art facilities, the ability to pay the equivalent of other clubs in terms of salary cap, on field opportunity. In fact North look a lot like Brisbane when Chris Fagan took over.
 

jarrod_island_doggies

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Fitzroy 1998 might have looked something like:

B: Chris Johnson, Stephen Paxman, Rowan Warfe
HB: Simon Hawking, Cameron Mooney, John Barker
C: Travis Johnstone, Simon Atkins, Scott Bamford
HF: Shane Clayton, Jarrod Molloy, John Rombotis,
F: Luke Power, Anthony Mellington, Darren Whieldon
R: Matthew Primus, Brad Boyd, Chris Heffernan
I: Michael Gardiner, Jason Baldwin, Brett Chandler, John McCarthy,

Em: Jim Wynd, Mark Zanotti,
Doc back in for '98 is pretty wild!
 

00Stinger

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2019 = 85,405
2018 = 69,868
2017 = 63,537
2015 = 40,270
2014 = 58,996
2013 = 69,821
2012 = 56,491
2011 = 73,163
2010 = 59,277
2009 = 77,699
2008 = 64,785
2007 = 65,531
2006 = 62,940
2005 = 52,507
2004 = 52,983
2003 = 68,381
2002 = 69,613
2001 = 71,518
2000 = 66,122
1999 = 56,129
1998 = 64,480
1997 = 50,944
1996 = 51,057
1995 = 77,448

All crowds have been above 50,000+ except for 2015.

<50k = 1
50-59k = 8
60-69k = 10
70-79k = 4
>80k = 1
why was 2015 so low?
 

Usayed Givashe

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Nov 7, 2020
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South goes North and North goes South. Got to love how people think moving a club is bad. Swan's have been a success, as has Lions. Maybe North will secure their future. Melbourne has too many teams, as does Sydney with NRL.
you haven’t won a legitimate flag in 80 years, and that is success?

You’re a turnip.
 

HBFlanker

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Jul 23, 2008
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But you are still missing the point. Fitzroy had no supporter base so they would have been in the same financial position a few years later. North is quickly heading that way as they rebuild for the next 6-10 years. Potential number #1 drafts picks (especially if they are from interstate) will be waiting for their 2 years to end so they can move back..
6 to 10 years would be a quick rebuild for your mob.

You could argue this is the first time North have rebuilt in 30 years. it wont be easy, but it also wont be 6 to 10 years.

Their kids are fine and will come along beautifully.

North will have 40,000 members this year so hardly "no supporter base"
 

Established1870

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You're over-stating it. Arden Street is fast becoming the equal of most football club facilities in the AFL and I don't see any reason why high draft picks that end up at North, would be clamouring to get out of North Melbourne to play elsewhere. State of the art facilities, the ability to pay the equivalent of other clubs in terms of salary cap, on field opportunity. In fact North look a lot like Brisbane when Chris Fagan took over.
They've been offering godfather offers to anyone who'll listen and the only two who took them were Polec and Aaron Hall. They would be firmly in the bottom 2 of clubs who players would think about moving over to if they were in the peak of their careers. They are absolutely nothing like pre-Fages Brisbane at all.
 

Roylion

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They've been offering godfather offers to anyone who'll listen and the only two who took them were Polec and Aaron Hall. They would be firmly in the bottom 2 of clubs who players would think about moving over to if they were in the peak of their careers. They are absolutely nothing like pre-Fages Brisbane at all.
Yet Brisbane at one stage could not keep high draftees or attract high profile players. It did change. And it will change for North as well.
 

Established1870

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Yet Brisbane at one stage could not keep high draftees or attract high profile players. It did change. And it will change for North as well.
North have never been in the position Brisbane were in and the Lions were still able to attract guys like Robinson, Christensen and Martin into the club and kept guys like McCluggage who they drafted from interstate. Brisbane also have factors that North just never will that would attract players as well.
 

Roylion

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North have never been in the position Brisbane were in and the Lions were still able to attract guys like Robinson, Christensen and Martin into the club
Two were cast-offs. Robinson was effetively sacked by Carlton. Martin was injury prone and struggled to get in the senior side at Melbourne and was traded for Picks 52 and 71. Christenson was seeking a new start.

and kept guys like McCluggage who they drafted from interstate.
Yes, but that's only recent. It wasn't always the case. Schache, Yeo, Aish, Polec, Docherty, Longer were a few high draft picks (+30) that left.