The off topic thread 3.0
- Thread starter Jatz
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
Quivorir
"Unhinged"
- Mar 29, 2010
- 58,677
- 77,461
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- LAL-MMA-Victory-CFC-Seahawks
My poor attempt of showing the 3 skin colours used. None are exactly white.
Quivorir
"Unhinged"
- Mar 29, 2010
- 58,677
- 77,461
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- LAL-MMA-Victory-CFC-Seahawks
The middle one is Osaka.
Last edited:
Yes the stance looked very Jim Crow-esque, that was my first reaction too.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
Eh, I can see where the argument comes from but then it comes back to whether it's possible to draw racially sensitive caricatures of non-Caucasians. Case will always be that by drawing on stereotypes you're being racist, but that's the whole point of a caricature.
If Williams was a gracious loser, none of this would have actually happened.
Don't give someone reason to draw you carrying on like a porkchop.
Don't give someone reason to draw you carrying on like a porkchop.
- Feb 1, 2010
- 38,706
- 19,668
- AFL Club
- Carlton
- Other Teams
- Tottenham Hotspur, Brentford FC
I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he just stupidly drew Osaka whiter than she actually is. The world loves to get outraged and it’s a vicious cycle really. Serena Williams overreacting to start it off, then the overreaction to her overreaction, then an overreaction to a drawing of her overreaction to finish it off. Basically the worlds ****ed
- Apr 2, 2000
- 74,862
- 25,052
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Liverpool, Chicago Bulls.
I think people are oversensitive. I saw the drawing and was like, oh yeah, there is a caricature of Serena Williams losing the plot. That was my entire thought process.
Sigh...
Sigh...
RPCB
Community Leader
- Moderator
- #9,560
Yep. I saw the cartoon and immediately laughed at “Can you just let her win?” above the photo of Naomi without looking if Mark Knight made her too white. That was before my eyes gazed over to the drawing of Serena Williams acting like a lunatic which is what she actually did.
At no point did I think of giving Mark Knight and his family death threats which is what he has received. Sad.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
He didn't even draw her wrong. She's mildly darker than the Umpire and her hair is blonde just like the blonde tip she had in her ponytail. She's a background character and not the focus of the cartoon so is clearly just a 'prop'.
No doubt there’s an element of overreacting in today’s world. However, this one has just cause.
Generally speaking, I find there’s a common denominator in those who call for calm and quiet in these moments: they’re white males.
Privilege is definitely a thing. I dont believe the illustration was deliberately intended to be racist, far from it. He’s probably ignorant to what that depiction represents, just like many of us over in Australia.
There’s a difference between ignorance and racism. But sadly, to those particularly in the southern USA, it’s an excuse they’d see far too often.
If that cartoon was vetted by someone informed of how it could be perceived, it surely would’ve never gone to print.
That stance absolutely belongs in the Jim Crow era. That’s a caricature from the blackface days. African Americans have endured that type of depiction of them for generations, and I don’t blame them at all if they took offence.
They shouldn’t be minimised or invalidated just because we don’t see it as a problem. In times like this when an uproar occurs, I’d suggest instead of telling them to be quiet, I prefer to listen.
I’m Kent Brockman and that was my 2 cents.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
No doubt there’s an element of overreacting in today’s world. However, this one has just cause.
Generally speaking, I find there’s a common denominator in those who call for calm and quiet in these moments: they’re white males.
Privilege is definitely a thing. I dont believe the illustration was deliberately intended to be racist, far from it. He’s probably ignorant to what that depiction represents, just like many of us over in Australia.
There’s a difference between ignorance and racism. But sadly, to those particularly in the southern USA, it’s an excuse they’d see far too often.
If that cartoon was vetted by someone informed of how it could be perceived, it surely would’ve never gone to print.
That stance absolutely belongs in the Jim Crow era. That’s a caricature from the blackface days. African Americans have endured that type of depiction of them for generations, and I don’t blame them at all if they took offence.
They shouldn’t be minimised or invalidated just because we don’t see it as a problem. In times like this when an uproar occurs, I’d suggest instead of telling them to be quiet, I prefer to listen.
I’m Kent Brockman and that was my 2 cents.
Genuine question then - can you create a caricature of an African-American individual who is angry without being accused of racism? To me it seems an unfortunate combination of circumstance: Serena is a rather muscular individual, in this particular incident she was spitting the dummy and acting like a spoilt brat, so she was depicted in a way that over-emphasised her stature, and her behaviour. Rather than anything inherently racist.
Very valid question SM. I don’t think there’s a clear cut answer. So many variables at play.
Draw them too dark, it can be perceived as blackface. Too light, it could be whitewashing. There’s a balance in the middle there somewhere that can be difficult to find.
I’d say more so it was the stance, and lips etc that caused the damage here. As I said; I doubt it was intentional. Just purely because of the circumstances you mentioned.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
Yep fair points. It's a tough one.
This is an outstanding post glenferry23No doubt there’s an element of overreacting in today’s world. However, this one has just cause.
Generally speaking, I find there’s a common denominator in those who call for calm and quiet in these moments: they’re white males.
Privilege is definitely a thing. I dont believe the illustration was deliberately intended to be racist, far from it. He’s probably ignorant to what that depiction represents, just like many of us over in Australia.
There’s a difference between ignorance and racism. But sadly, to those particularly in the southern USA, it’s an excuse they’d see far too often.
If that cartoon was vetted by someone informed of how it could be perceived, it surely would’ve never gone to print.
That stance absolutely belongs in the Jim Crow era. That’s a caricature from the blackface days. African Americans have endured that type of depiction of them for generations, and I don’t blame them at all if they took offence.
They shouldn’t be minimised or invalidated just because we don’t see it as a problem. In times like this when an uproar occurs, I’d suggest instead of telling them to be quiet, I prefer to listen.
I’m Kent Brockman and that was my 2 cents.
There is context that always needs to be added, and the problem here is that the cartoon doesn't. Yes, Serena blew her stack. Unreasonably and unacceptably. But to be fair, Umpire Ramos does have form. He's had complaints made against him previously by female players. No mention is made that across the latter stages of her career, Serena had generally been lauded for her sportsmanship. She was a brat in her youth. So was the seemingly endlessly gentile Roger Federer. So was I. Serena is African-American and female, two groups that are in constant fights for what should be basic understanding and rights at this point in history.
The issue here is if that cartoon was drawn for a non-Murdochracy media outlet, it doesn't go to print. The failure, and it will not be looked at as such by the persons responsible, is as much with the editors as Mark Knight. In itself, the cartoon is topical but it's translation is poor, thoughtless and tasteless.
But it was drawn to appeal to a particular population subset, and appeal to them it did.
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
- Oct 28, 2012
- 104,529
- 142,446
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Bushrangers - Tottenham
Threatened a lineswoman.
Made a fool of herself in the final v Stosur.
Something about Flushing Meadows turns her crazy.
Great sportsmanship though, right?
SM
Bigfooty Legend
She did not stop being a brat, never has. As Cruyff has pointed out, a quick Google search tells you that.
You're reading far too much into the cartoon if you think it was drawn to appeal to a particular subset. The cartoonist has form over-accentuating lips/ears/etc. for all manner of people.
I took it for face value. It was highlight Serena's petulance and how bad a loser she is.
Quivorir
"Unhinged"
- Mar 29, 2010
- 58,677
- 77,461
- AFL Club
- North Melbourne
- Other Teams
- LAL-MMA-Victory-CFC-Seahawks
People seem to also forget that her coach admitted coaching. She threw a tantrum because she got caught cheating. This whole controversy is the perfect cover for her and she is loving it.
He meltdown was embarrassing, I bet she’d love that ten minutes back. It was very petulant. Her behaviour was understandably condemned.
Two wrongs don’t make a right though. A comic can still make light of the situation and draw attention to her behaviour in amusing way without resorting to archaic Jim Crow stereotypes of an African American.
Two wrongs don’t make a right though. A comic can still make light of the situation and draw attention to her behaviour in amusing way without resorting to archaic Jim Crow stereotypes of an African American.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
