The off topic thread 5.0

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Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
Oct 28, 2012
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"well if it's self defence it's okay"
Well it kinda has been okay for quite some time now.
and then either bait people or completely misconstrue what constitutes a threat.
that would be a concerning escalation that hopefully doesn’t occur.
Anyone else a bit concerned by the ramifications of Rittenhouse being found not guilty?
The SRP thread on this is disintegrating over the premise you’re inferring. Proper judicial process v racism. Fair to say it is polarising.

So I thought I’d ask my cousin, as he spent a decade living in Tennessee. His thoughts were that racism is rife and institutional, almost at the point where it’s irrevocable. But noted that your mindset over there is vastly different.

Here you can leave home in the morning for work, not lock the front door and good chance no one robs you. But over there the prevalence of guns has everyone on edge, distrusting and fearful.

So he wasn’t willing to fully discredit self defence because you do really live frightened of what the person next to you will do.

His wife is a lawyer and said also that proving guilt in a self defence v cold blooded scenario is one of the harder things for prosecution to do. Have to convince 12 people who also live in the same society built on fear that it was cold blood.

Not discounting or refuting your concerns over racial based outcomes. Just adding extra context.
 

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SM

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Well it kinda has been okay for quite some time now.

that would be a concerning escalation that hopefully doesn’t occur.

The SRP thread on this is disintegrating over the premise you’re inferring. Proper judicial process v racism. Fair to say it is polarising.

So I thought I’d ask my cousin, as he spent a decade living in Tennessee. His thoughts were that racism is rife and institutional, almost at the point where it’s irrevocable. But noted that your mindset over there is vastly different.

Here you can leave home in the morning for work, not lock the front door and good chance no one robs you. But over there the prevalence of guns has everyone on edge, distrusting and fearful.

So he wasn’t willing to fully discredit self defence because you do really live frightened of what the person next to you will do.

His wife is a lawyer and said also that proving guilt in a self defence v cold blooded scenario is one of the harder things for prosecution to do. Have to convince 12 people who also live in the same society built on fear that it was cold blood.

Not discounting or refuting your concerns over racial based outcomes. Just adding extra context.
Yeah I dunno if marching around with an assault rifle really gives you the right to justify your actions as self defence. Self-defence has always been a proportionate thing.

If someone swings a punch at you and you push them away and they get hurt, you can argue you acted in self-defence. If someone tries to shove you and you shoot them, that's not self-defence.
 

Zidane98

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You don't think there will be copycats?

My concern is people will see this and think "well if it's self defence it's okay" and then either bait people or completely misconstrue what constitutes a threat.
Americans will do stupid things regardless of the verdict.

Each case has to be trialled on its own merits and a verdict certainly shouldnt be based off what public sentiment will be.
 

Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
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Does this apply here? Rittenhouse crossed state lines with an AR-15.

Does it not count?

I also query why he has an AR, but that leads into a bigger discussion about why the gun lobby is so strong that AR’s aren’t banned. But that chronological list of events on NY Times appears to show that his actions were in self defence even if you could and should ask what he was doing there and why he had an automatic rifle.

We can’t approach this with an Australian mindset, they are allowed to carry guns. For whatever ill conceived reason he carried a gun across state lines, and who knows it may have been the spark to the tinderbox that led to the other participants firing shots and behaving aggressively. He’s not a completely innocent man in this.

But whatever his reasons were the NY Times seem to show that he was being attacked.

Which would then be easier to prove? Self defence by the defence attorney or First Degree Intentional Homicide by the prosecution? Note: the importance of the word intentional.
 

SM

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Does it not count?

I also query why he has an AR, but that leads into a bigger discussion about why the gun lobby is so strong that AR’s aren’t banned. But that chronological list of events on NY Times appears to show that his actions were in self defence even if you could and should ask what he was doing there and why he had an automatic rifle.

We can’t approach this with an Australian mindset, they are allowed to carry guns. For whatever ill conceived reason he carried a gun across state lines, and who knows it may have been the spark to the tinderbox that led to the other participants firing shots and behaving aggressively. He’s not a completely innocent man in this.

But whatever his reasons were the NY Times seem to show that he was being attacked.

Which would then be easier to prove? Self defence by the defence attorney or First Degree Intentional Homicide by the prosecution? Note: the importance of the word intentional.
Reckon when you fire an assault rifle in the direction of someone your intent is pretty clear.
 

Elmer_Judd

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The other day on twitter Mike Carlton asked on Twitter if Sco-Mo has done one good thing for Australia since becoming PM.
I honestly can't think of one, he is not the worst PM we have ever had (Tones Abbott wears that crown) but probably the most useless and ineffectual. Just a turnip.
 

Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
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The other day on twitter Mike Carlton asked on Twitter if Sco-Mo has done one good thing for Australia since becoming PM.
I honestly can't think of one, he is not the worst PM we have ever had (Tones Abbott wears that crown) but probably the most useless and ineffectual. Just a turnip.
Dare say if the GG sacks you then the title of worst PM is yours. Literally deemed unfit for office.
 

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Cruyff14

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The other day on twitter Mike Carlton asked on Twitter if Sco-Mo has done one good thing for Australia since becoming PM.
I honestly can't think of one, he is not the worst PM we have ever had (Tones Abbott wears that crown) but probably the most useless and ineffectual. Just a turnip.
Yeah, I am not sure there is much I can think of.
 

TheGreatBarryB

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Dare say if the GG sacks you then the title of worst PM is yours. Literally deemed unfit for office.
So you think the following achievements are not noteworthy..

Dragged Aus out Vietnam & abolished conscription
Introduced Medibank
Free Uni fees
Supporting mothers benefit
Welfare payment for homeless
Legal Aid
Provide needs based funding for govt schools
Introduce family law act
Racial discrimination act
National Gallery and Heritage Comm
Opened talks with China just before US did

Rated in many polls amongst best PMs…meanwhile …


3E3EEDFB-245C-4DDA-95B8-0431A9973BC7.jpeg
 

Zidane98

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Not really. It's America. Most of them are f’ed in the head / brainwashed. This kind of sh*t isn't new.
Imagine self defense shootings are common place in America with gun laws being the way they are and a population of 300m plus. This one was just publicized more for various reasons.

It's never gonna happen but the gun lobby needs to gtfo and look at bringing in tighter gun control laws.
 

TheGreatBarryB

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It's never gonna happen but the gun lobby needs to gtfo and look at bringing in tighter gun control laws.
Don’t think it’ll ever happen. I have a cousin in NJ and asked him why he has a gun and he was surprised i asked. Said he needs it for self defence as most others have a gun. Not sure how you break that circle/cycle.
 

SM

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So you think the following achievements are not noteworthy..

Dragged Aus out Vietnam & abolished conscription
Introduced Medibank
Free Uni fees
Supporting mothers benefit
Welfare payment for homeless
Legal Aid
Provide needs based funding for govt schools
Introduce family law act
Racial discrimination act
National Gallery and Heritage Comm
Opened talks with China just before US did

Rated in many polls amongst best PMs…meanwhile …


View attachment 1285724
Did a lot of good, but also had a few massive stuff ups.
 

Zidane98

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Don’t think it’ll ever happen. I have a cousin in NJ and asked him why he has a gun and he was surprised i asked. Said he needs it for self defence as most others have a gun. Not sure how you break that circle/cycle.
Everything changed in Australia after Port Arthur shootings but it seems no amounts of shootings in the US will see any changes which is a tragedy.
 

Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
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So you think the following achievements are not noteworthy..

Dragged Aus out Vietnam & abolished conscription
Introduced Medibank
Free Uni fees
Supporting mothers benefit
Welfare payment for homeless
Legal Aid
Provide needs based funding for govt schools
Introduce family law act
Racial discrimination act
National Gallery and Heritage Comm
Opened talks with China just before US did

Rated in many polls amongst best PMs…meanwhile …


View attachment 1285724
Was a throwaway line. As SM said a lot of good forgotten in history due to some monumental stuff ups.

Haven’t had a good government for well over a decade at this point if we’re honest.
 

ADL9798

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Held out for 20 months but looks like me and son have both got Covid. Just waiting for PCR confirmation, both tested positive on a lateral flow.

Have to reschedule my booster if it does turn out positive, and miss Everton, PSG and West Ham.

No symptoms from either of us yet, although I'm freezing at moment (I've always tended to feel the cold more than most).
Wishing you and your son a quick recovery. While our immunity to symptomatic infection may wane over time, current evidence suggests the memory B cell response (the thing that stops us from becoming severely unwell once infected) remains pretty robust and durable for most people.
 

Bojan KantKick

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Imagine self defense shootings are common place in America with gun laws being the way they are and a population of 300m plus. This one was just publicized more for various reasons.

It's never gonna happen but the gun lobby needs to gtfo and look at bringing in tighter gun control laws.
George Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin from a convenience store into a park and shot him until he died. His defence was Martin was wearing a hoodie and therefore was dangerous so it was self defence / stand your ground.

The US is full of racist campaigners and if you arent white then you will be demonised. Emmett Till situations are still happening today.
 

SM

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Imagine self defense shootings are common place in America with gun laws being the way they are and a population of 300m plus. This one was just publicized more for various reasons.

It's never gonna happen but the gun lobby needs to gtfo and look at bringing in tighter gun control laws.
And what reasons may those be?
 

moomba

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Wishing you and your son a quick recovery. While our immunity to symptomatic infection may wane over time, current evidence suggests the memory B cell response (the thing that stops us from becoming severely unwell once infected) remains pretty robust and durable for most people.
Thanks, all been fine so far. Just a bit boring not being able to leave the house.

Symptoms definitely on the mild side for me, and none for the lad.
 

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