The off topic thread 5.0

Remove this Banner Ad

Log in to remove this ad.

moomba

TheBrownDog
Oct 3, 2001
58,598
19,811
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City ****
One of the golfers has a 100 million dollar contract
PGA tour makes over a billion a year. I reckon you'll see significant early investment, big losses but they'll be hoping their tour rivals and then surpasses the PGA. But you need big names to get there and they'll have to spend big to attract those names in the early years.
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,455
16,979
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
I dont reckon Serena is a clear GOAT. She doesnt even have the most Grand Slams career wise. Court has 24 compared to Serena's 23 and Graf is right there with 22 also. So definitely a debate to be had there.

I dont know much about the NFL but the positions are so different and the game is so different it's difficult to say one player is the greatest. I mean doesnt Brady only play one side of the game. Offence? He sits on the bench when his team doesnt have the ball. Also how different is a quarterback to a running back, a wide receiver or one of those, erm really huge dudes who do blocks and stuff. What is a tight end? The game is too weird. You can definitely argue he's the GOAT quarterback but how do you compare him to someone like Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders, Jim Brown or Emmit Smith etc...

I think clear GOAT's with no real debate is Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps, Magnus Carlsen, Usain Bolt and Muhammed Ali.

There's definitely debate about Muhammad Ali. He acknowledged Sugar Ray Robinson as the best boxer ever. Then you have to consider Floyd Mayweather's record.

As for heavyweights, Mike Tyson in his pomp would have knocked Muhammad Ali's block off.
 

Bojan KantKick

Man United Legacy Supporter
Sep 5, 2014
24,840
22,784
Hertford
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Manchester United, Stevenage FC
PGA tour makes over a billion a year. I reckon you'll see significant early investment, big losses but they'll be hoping their tour rivals and then surpasses the PGA. But you need big names to get there and they'll have to spend big to attract those names in the early years.
If they can't get access to the best and most historic courses in the world they will not touch the PGA Tour. For example, they will never get Augusta.

They are at Centurion this week which is a lovely members only course about 30 mins away from me. It's not set up for a PGA Tour event and it shows. They offered Tiger $800m to play and he turned them down. Golfers will have to choose between money and professional achievement / legacy going forward.

I was very surprised they managed to get DJ and Schwartzel. The other blokes they got are well past their primes and just setting up their pension funds, Chinese Super League style.

I think the likely conclusion to this is the PGA Tour increases prize money and everyone moves back to that.

Some good chat from Rory on it - LIV golfers doing it for boatloads of cash - McIlroy
 

99 Problems

Club Legend
Aug 4, 2016
1,226
1,310
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Everton
There's definitely debate about Muhammad Ali. He acknowledged Sugar Ray Robinson as the best boxer ever. Then you have to consider Floyd Mayweather's record.

As for heavyweights, Mike Tyson in his pomp would have knocked Muhammad Ali's block off.
Tyson was an athletic beast who had an aura around him for a period of time, but history has not been kind to his record at all. Early on he fought often but he never saw anyone in the same league as the top guys from Ali’s generation, at least not at their peak.

He quickly ran through and beat up an incredibly weak division, and the media at the time pushed him so heavily because the division was dying. Reality is there’s no performance in his career to suggest he was obviously better than any of the heavyweight legends.
 

Bradesmaen

TheBrownDog
Apr 8, 2007
50,781
23,258
Dublin
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
SJ Sharks/Everton/NY Jets
If they can't get access to the best and most historic courses in the world they will not touch the PGA Tour. For example, they will never get Augusta.

They are at Centurion this week which is a lovely members only course about 30 mins away from me. It's not set up for a PGA Tour event and it shows. They offered Tiger $800m to play and he turned them down. Golfers will have to choose between money and professional achievement / legacy going forward.

I was very surprised they managed to get DJ and Schwartzel. The other blokes they got are well past their primes and just setting up their pension funds, Chinese Super League style.

I think the likely conclusion to this is the PGA Tour increases prize money and everyone moves back to that.

Some good chat from Rory on it - LIV golfers doing it for boatloads of cash - McIlroy
Almost no mainstream media are reporting on it other than the suspensions etc. BBC slipped in a little bit about the leader and his team and thats all.
 

jod23

TheBrownDog
Apr 2, 2000
70,750
23,329
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool, Chicago Bulls.
There's definitely debate about Muhammad Ali. He acknowledged Sugar Ray Robinson as the best boxer ever. Then you have to consider Floyd Mayweather's record.

As for heavyweights, Mike Tyson in his pomp would have knocked Muhammad Ali's block off.
I'd pump the breaks massively on Iron Mike. The division at the time was terribly weak and the moment he finally fought someone good he was completely beaten all ends up twice by Evander Holyfield. Outside of that what were his biggest scalps? Berbick? Bruno? Spinks?? A completely old and washed Holmes??

Meanwhile Ali was beating blokes like Liston, Henry Cooper, Joe Frazier, Norton, Shavers, Foreman... some of the all time greats. I dont think Ali would have had any trouble whatsoever against Mike Tyson.

Fair call on other weight divisions but I guess boxing is boxing. Put Floyd Mayweather in a ring with Ali and Ali will knock the wee little chap out. Same sport, just bigger guys so I reckon Ali can claim GOAT.
 

moomba

TheBrownDog
Oct 3, 2001
58,598
19,811
Timperley
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Man City ****
I think the likely conclusion to this is the PGA Tour increases prize money and everyone moves back to that.

I think so, but there will be some sweeteners for the Saudi in it somewhere.

PGA are talking the talk, but suspending players is just damaging their money making potential. They probably have to do it, but unless the new tour falls apart its going to be really hard for PGA to get out of this without making major concessions.
 

Bojan KantKick

Man United Legacy Supporter
Sep 5, 2014
24,840
22,784
Hertford
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Manchester United, Stevenage FC
I'd pump the breaks massively on Iron Mike. The division at the time was terribly weak and the moment he finally fought someone good he was completely beaten all ends up twice by Evander Holyfield. Outside of that what were his biggest scalps? Berbick? Bruno? Spinks?? A completely old and washed Holmes??

Meanwhile Ali was beating blokes like Liston, Henry Cooper, Joe Frazier, Norton, Shavers, Foreman... some of the all time greats. I dont think Ali would have had any trouble whatsoever against Mike Tyson.

Fair call on other weight divisions but I guess boxing is boxing. Put Floyd Mayweather in a ring with Ali and Ali will knock the wee little chap out. Same sport, just bigger guys so I reckon Ali can claim GOAT.
Blokes in Mayweathers division couldn't touch him. How would would a bigger bloke beat him? Mayweather wins on points imo.
 

Magma

Hall of Famer
Oct 5, 2009
47,671
36,275
Adelaide
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
West Adelaide Bloods, Man City.
i think even neater than the whole goat stuff is the 'were exceptional at multiple sports' stuff. obviously not much of a thing now but going back and reading about guys like jim thorpe is utterly fascinating.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,455
16,979
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
I'd pump the breaks massively on Iron Mike. The division at the time was terribly weak and the moment he finally fought someone good he was completely beaten all ends up twice by Evander Holyfield. Outside of that what were his biggest scalps? Berbick? Bruno? Spinks?? A completely old and washed Holmes??

Meanwhile Ali was beating blokes like Liston, Henry Cooper, Joe Frazier, Norton, Shavers, Foreman... some of the all time greats. I dont think Ali would have had any trouble whatsoever against Mike Tyson.

Fair call on other weight divisions but I guess boxing is boxing. Put Floyd Mayweather in a ring with Ali and Ali will knock the wee little chap out. Same sport, just bigger guys so I reckon Ali can claim GOAT.

I said Mike Tyson in his pomp. I would exclude anything after his forced 4 year break and the come back. He smashed WBC champ Berbick inside two rounds. Spinks was Olympic gold and unbeaten in 31 fights. Tyson swatted him aside in 90 seconds.

Cooper put Ali on his arse in the 4th round but he was saved by the bell. Cooper only lost because he sustained cuts.

Ali is a legend because of his huge personality but Iron Mike would have whacked him inside three rounds.
 

jod23

TheBrownDog
Apr 2, 2000
70,750
23,329
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool, Chicago Bulls.
I said Mike Tyson in his pomp. I would exclude anything after his forced 4 year break and the come back. He smashed WBC champ Berbick inside two rounds. Spinks was Olympic gold and unbeaten in 31 fights. Tyson swatted him aside in 90 seconds.

Cooper put Ali on his arse in the 4th round but he was saved by the bell. Cooper only lost because he sustained cuts.

Ali is a legend because of his huge personality but Iron Mike would have whacked him inside three rounds.
I dont think their is any evidence to support that whatsoever. Mike had never gotten in the ring with someone as good as Ali. Foreman was Tyson before Tyson and Ali figured him out and knocked him out. Ali would have just done the same to Mike, danced around him, make him miss and tire. Then go for the kill in the later rounds.

Berbick and Spinks were fine fighters but Tyson never fought anyone great, well until Holyfield and we saw how that went down.
 

jod23

TheBrownDog
Apr 2, 2000
70,750
23,329
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool, Chicago Bulls.
Blokes in Mayweathers division couldn't touch him. How would would a bigger bloke beat him? Mayweather wins on points imo.
Maybe... all it would take is one big hit from a big heavyweight to end Mayweather. Bloke like Ali too can dance and move and is quick, he's not a lumbering big heavyweight that Mayweather could dance around. I think Ali would make short work of Mayweather.
 

Bojan KantKick

Man United Legacy Supporter
Sep 5, 2014
24,840
22,784
Hertford
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Manchester United, Stevenage FC
Maybe... all it would take is one big hit from a big heavyweight to end Mayweather. Bloke like Ali too can dance and move and is quick, he's not a lumbering big heavyweight that Mayweather could dance around. I think Ali would make short work of Mayweather.
Ali had nowhere near the quickness of Mayweather and nobody could hit Floyd regularly.
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,455
16,979
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
I dont think their is any evidence to support that whatsoever. Mike had never gotten in the ring with someone as good as Ali. Foreman was Tyson before Tyson and Ali figured him out and knocked him out. Ali would have just done the same to Mike, danced around him, make him miss and tire. Then go for the kill in the later rounds.

Berbick and Spinks were fine fighters but Tyson never fought anyone great, well until Holyfield and we saw how that went down.

It's not evidence, it's an opinion. But your claim was that Muhammed Ali was the GOAT with 'no real debate'. Yet here we are.
 

jod23

TheBrownDog
Apr 2, 2000
70,750
23,329
Perth, Australia
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool, Chicago Bulls.
It's not evidence, it's an opinion. But your claim was that Muhammed Ali was the GOAT with 'no real debate'. Yet here we are.
You're debating Mike Tyson though which is way off base.

But fair enough, maybe he wouldnt qualify.

Then I'd go Jordan, Phelps, Carslen and Bolt.
 

TheGreatBarryB

Hall of Famer
Mar 20, 2007
31,511
32,650
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Other Teams
Texans, Astros, Leeds
I dont think their is any evidence to support that whatsoever. Mike had never gotten in the ring with someone as good as Ali. Foreman was Tyson before Tyson and Ali figured him out and knocked him out. Ali would have just done the same to Mike, danced around him, make him miss and tire. Then go for the kill in the later rounds.

Berbick and Spinks were fine fighters but Tyson never fought anyone great, well until Holyfield and we saw how that went down.
Yeah agree about Tyson, didn’t fight anyone great and Holyfield exposed him. Frazier, Foreman and even Norton all beaten by Ali would have all had Tyson’s measure. Frazier doesn’t get enough credit. One of the all time greats
 

sorted

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
12,455
16,979
AFL Club
Geelong
Other Teams
Oldham, West Ham
You're debating Mike Tyson though which is way off base.

But fair enough, maybe he wouldnt qualify.

Then I'd go Jordan, Phelps, Carslen and Bolt.

It's perfectly valid to have Ali in your list of GOATs. I'm just saying it's debatable. Agree about the others you named. I would add Phil Taylor for darts as fairly clear cut.

There's a few where it's between a couple of players.

Football - Messi or Maradona.
Squash - Jahangir or Jansher Khan.
Snooker - O'Sullivan or Hendry.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad